WoW should become simpler...

[tratra]

I don't know if its just me and some friends I spoke to but we feel that WoW has become overly complicated over the past years and it has reached a point of being a very hard game to get into.

I played BFA at the very start as I do with every expansion. I quit after a month of grinding the dark iron unlock.

Decided to give 8.2 a try. I played for like 2 hours and decided that this is not for me and just logged out.

Now hear me out, 8.2 seems to be a big improvement to what the game was previously in BFA, and people that do play wow non-stop seem to be having fun.
The reason I logged out and my friends did too, is that the game is just too complex to grasp if you are not playing constantly.
Every expansion new things are getting added to the game, with some of them being scraped and some kept. We've reached a point where WoW is just a combination of so many different games and I feel like that is contributing to its general downgrade as a game. When you have so many points to prove as a game you don't know where to focus exactly.

Now back to my main issue, and my friends issue. For every expansion we keep coming back we have to do some research especially after wotlk. That research includes reading about our class/rotations/specs and some small bits about the new content.

This research has become more dreadful over the years and reaching all the way up to 8.2 where we just log in for 2 hours and then say nah nope logoff. Now I know a lot of people will say 'this game aint for you anymore', or 'this game not being simple is what makes it best'. I am not talking about making it simple and removing all of its depth.
If you take vanilla as an example, you didn't need to read guides or anything to get into the game at all. You could even do all of its content without reading anything. The amount of depth though you could go in was a lot and the way you could min-max your character was again closer to what it is now but without taking away from the game-play.
A person starting a warrior could do heroic strike and see that it hits for 200, a persona that is min-maxing wouldn't use heroic strike at all as its a rage dump but they'd still end up close enough, with a significant dps increase on the person min-maxing. Although both wouldn't have an issue playing the game the way they like it.

Anyways the game has progressed and it has reached this point, my suggestion would be that blizzard should be looking at making the game simpler while giving enough depth to those that need it in order to min-max and be happy and of course keep what they are doing with raids etc. Just figure out a way of making the game not needing 20 guides to be read in order to get into and start killing normal mobs outside of raids or doing a dungeon. Give us a game where both people that love to theory-craft and min-max etc and people that genuinely want to kill their time can enjoy. And I know that everyone here thinks that wow is currently a casual-fest game and while its true content wise, I don't think it applies when it comes to the game-play itself, apart from the classes being dumped down and having awful small rotations, the classes have actual rotations that if you don't read about you won't be able to kill single mobs and thats what sucks about it.

TL;DR: No easy way to explain this, for newcomers or returning players wow feels like you need to get a PhD in order to play. Find a way to accommodate newcomers and returning players as well as current players, thats one of the main things that is killing wow right now, no matter how good the content is, the treadmill on getting in the game is huge.

[Chonar]

Excellent idea. Let's start with pruning the abilities of our classes, since that simplification was so well-received the first couple of times it happened.
I would suggest going to a three-button system; "Damage", "Heal" and "Tank Up!"

[THEORACLE64]

Honestly, the only overwhelming thing is the level cap for new players right now - hence why it seems they are going to do a level squish. Everything else is honestly as simple as it can get without having just 3-4 abilities.

[Sencha]

Overly complicated?? That's just the opposite...

Stats are continuously dumbed down, rotations have been considerably simplified compared to some expansions ago. You can basically solo everything in the open world with 3 buttons.

[Jurwi]

Thank God for Classic, anyone can go back to 1-2 button rotations.

P.S BfA is already simple. Basically every class is "Spam one skill and use 1-2 others once they proc".

[IshouldWork]

While I don't agree that rotations are overcomplicated, there is a lot of stuff in the game which is not clearcut. Talent choices, trinkets and azerite traits are often not really good explained in game. With the new patch you now have alot of different currencies, which are making it artificially more difficult to make decissions in game. But on the other side these things promote third party (i.e. player) stuff like mmo-champ which in turn often generates more player interest in the game.

[Djuntas]

OP, just no. Icyveins.com and your done in 2 hours. I can log on an alt I havent played since legion and fix UI (WA string), addons and spec, heirlooms etc etc in like 3-4 hours. And thats my taking my time cause I want a good UI.

Also Mythic raiding however has become waaay to complex. Raid bosses in vanilla/TBC was a bit to simple, but mythic bosses you need to read a book to understand them. Thats all I will give you OP. This trend started in WOTLK, end of TBC. Last time I raided was in Cata, and I still praise Heroic Ragnaros was the best raid boss ever in WoW.

Also...Azerite traits are also idiotic. But just use bloodmallet.

[SaneOstrich]

I wouldn't say it should become simpler, it should be easier to learn (and difficult to master preferably).

Simple suggests that there is little depth. I don't mind debt, but I agree that it is a hassle, if not almost impossible, to get up to speed with the game and classes without having to refer to external sources and just 'do what they do'.

- - - Updated - - -

OP, just no. Icyveins.com and your done in 2 hours. I can log on an alt I havent played since legion and fix UI (WA string), addons and spec, heirlooms etc etc in like 3-4 hours. And thats my taking my time cause I want a good UI.

Call me old fashioned, but having to rely on a 3rd party external source to be able to play a game is just bad design imo.

I know that ship has sailed for wow for a very very long time with all it's add-on's and database sites and strategy sites and such, but i still bugs me.

[MoanaLisa]

OP, just no. Icyveins.com and your done in 2 hours.

This sort of thinking is representative of the problem though. I think that playing the game is simple enough but I do agree that 1) anyone coming back for the start of an expansion is usually met with a character that plays differently than when they left and 2) Two hours of research at a 3rd party website to feel reasonably competent is not something most people will do and looked at sensibly it's a little ridiculous.

It's kind of a difficult design problem: change the classes around every 18 months, add new class functionalities that are not well explained in the game itself, and send people out to group up with others while not fully comprehending what is going on.

It's a recipe for what we see: bunches of people returning, leveling and leaving. People should be able to navigate the game and their characters without a lot of confusion without spending hours on some 3rd party website.

[Popastique]

I don't know if its just me and some friends I spoke to but we feel that WoW has become overly complicated over the past years and it has reached a point of being a very hard game to get into.

I played BFA at the very start as I do with every expansion. I quit after a month of grinding the dark iron unlock.

Decided to give 8.2 a try. I played for like 2 hours and decided that this is not for me and just logged out.

Now hear me out, 8.2 seems to be a big improvement to what the game was previously in BFA, and people that do play wow non-stop seem to be having fun.
The reason I logged out and my friends did too, is that the game is just too complex to grasp if you are not playing constantly.
Every expansion new things are getting added to the game, with some of them being scraped and some kept. We've reached a point where WoW is just a combination of so many different games and I feel like that is contributing to its general downgrade as a game. When you have so many points to prove as a game you don't know where to focus exactly.

Now back to my main issue, and my friends issue. For every expansion we keep coming back we have to do some research especially after wotlk. That research includes reading about our class/rotations/specs and some small bits about the new content.

This research has become more dreadful over the years and reaching all the way up to 8.2 where we just log in for 2 hours and then say nah nope logoff. Now I know a lot of people will say 'this game aint for you anymore', or 'this game not being simple is what makes it best'. I am not talking about making it simple and removing all of its depth.
If you take vanilla as an example, you didn't need to read guides or anything to get into the game at all. You could even do all of its content without reading anything. The amount of depth though you could go in was a lot and the way you could min-max your character was again closer to what it is now but without taking away from the game-play.
A person starting a warrior could do heroic strike and see that it hits for 200, a persona that is min-maxing wouldn't use heroic strike at all as its a rage dump but they'd still end up close enough, with a significant dps increase on the person min-maxing. Although both wouldn't have an issue playing the game the way they like it.

Anyways the game has progressed and it has reached this point, my suggestion would be that blizzard should be looking at making the game simpler while giving enough depth to those that need it in order to min-max and be happy and of course keep what they are doing with raids etc. Just figure out a way of making the game not needing 20 guides to be read in order to get into and start killing normal mobs outside of raids or doing a dungeon. Give us a game where both people that love to theory-craft and min-max etc and people that genuinely want to kill their time can enjoy. And I know that everyone here thinks that wow is currently a casual-fest game and while its true content wise, I don't think it applies when it comes to the game-play itself, apart from the classes being dumped down and having awful small rotations, the classes have actual rotations that if you don't read about you won't be able to kill single mobs and thats what sucks about it.

TL;DR: No easy way to explain this, for newcomers or returning players wow feels like you need to get a PhD in order to play. Find a way to accommodate newcomers and returning players as well as current players, thats one of the main things that is killing wow right now, no matter how good the content is, the treadmill on getting in the game is huge.

So spending 1-2 hours reading about changes to your class and spec is too hard of a thing nowadays? Amazing.

[krl]

I completely disagree. MMOs as a genre are not supposed to be simple. Their complexity rewards large time investment in a way simpler games cannot.

Maybe MMOs are not the right genre for you.

[SaneOstrich]

So spending 1-2 hours reading about changes to your class and spec is too hard of a thing nowadays? Amazing.

not 'hard', but not exactly what I call fun, or what I expect when I want to play a video game. It's actually one of the things that holds me back when I get that wow-itch again, the realisation I'll have to learn how to play properly again for the umpteenth time. I'd like the game to welcome me back as an old friend, not as a stranger.

[Popastique]

not 'hard', but not exactly what I call fun, or what I expect when I want to play a video game. It's actually one of the things that holds me back when I get that wow-itch again, the realisation I'll have to learn how to play properly again for the umpteenth time. I'd like the game to welcome me back as an old friend, not as a stranger.

Let's be honest here - if you want to just play a video game, you won't need to even spend 1-2 hours reading some guide. WoW explains everything pretty well. You will spend 1-2 hours once you decide to get good doing dps or something according to Skada or Details addon. Any MMORPG will require you to do a good amount of research IF you decide to get good at raiding, pvp or whatever.

[crusadernero]

What do you even mean? you can log in right now and do everything alone, well most of it. Some mobs require a group.

Btw, classic got like 1-2 button "rotations" and every mechaninc is easy. come back after doing just that for over a year. It gets boring.

Its a MMORPG, its supposed to be somewhat complex.

[Aphrel]

Considering how often ion says "it would be confusing to players" i think you might be the target demography of wow if you feel like you need a phd to do world Qs...

[ultima ratio]

TL;DR: No easy way to explain this, for newcomers or returning players wow feels like you need to get a PhD in order to play. Find a way to accommodate newcomers and returning players as well as current players, thats one of the main things that is killing wow right now, no matter how good the content is, the treadmill on getting in the game is huge.

sry to hear that a 7-10 button priority rotation is too complex for u. also this 5min read, explaining said rotation https://de.wowhead.com/fury-warrior-rotation-guide overwhelm u for 2 hours. sry, but the cognitive requirement is middle-school (no toxic intent), not PhD, so y do feel overwhelmed?

RPGs core dynamic is progression, aka evolution, improvement - the theme is to grow beyond any known potential to solve the impossible (aka endboss).
so have the systems. WoW as a subscriber based service has to progress or will result in consume fatigue - how often did u replay ur favorite title? (360hrs CivVI) and y dont u play it all the time? (cuz no more challenge, every interesting leader/strat/victory condition achieved on deity.) narrative content, aka lore is a great example: how often did u read ur favorite book? (Der Prozess, Kafka, Franz, ca. 15x in 30years) and y dont u re-read it all the time? (cuz i know it on Fahrenheit 451 level)
also WoWs systems r far from perfection, balancing being #1 issue, as a result of a constant need for spec development (see above) etc.

the parallel progression systems as Legion Artefact and Legendaries were a brillant approach to consume fatigue without the risk of too much class rework every xpac. class and spec identity feel more distinct, diversive and controllable than pre Legion (just get used to them), homogenisation is simply an overbloated argument, as classes had their similiarities since Vanilla (as in CC, De/Buff etc.). those parallel progression systems can be replaced easily within a story update without the risk of alienating players from their class.
I SACRIFICED ASHBRINGER TO SAVE AZEROTH AND SHE GAVE ME HER HEART - not the worst trade? (as main spec still feels good without it)

but yeah, maybe its the progression, the constant need to adapt to every change ingame to be competetive, WoW is a performance society in Cyberspace, its either Adapt, Engage, Dominate or hfgl. if u cant invest ur learning time, than maybe (no toxic intent) a simpler game is more suited for ur preferences.
but still, as i read ur OP twice and still dont understand y u feel overwhelmed.

[Gref]

Either a clickbait disguising as a naive well intended poster or problems in mental capacity.
I swear some people...
I have a wife, full time job, quit around siege of orgrimmar came back with bfa can hardly play 2 hours max 3 days a week and I have finished all nazjatar just yesterday in 1 sitting 2 hours. tonight will be mechagon.

I do not want to be toxic but I cannot help... please uninstall wow. everything is spoonfed to the players, there are both ingame and outside guides literally pushing guides to your face, markers everywhere on the map and game is complex.

gtfo

[Amali1232]

not 'hard', but not exactly what I call fun, or what I expect when I want to play a video game. It's actually one of the things that holds me back when I get that wow-itch again, the realisation I'll have to learn how to play properly again for the umpteenth time. I'd like the game to welcome me back as an old friend, not as a stranger.

I'm sorry, but I took several expansions worth of a break before coming back towards the tail-end of Legion and that's just bull. Fundamentally, the game plays the same as it always has. Sure, a few abilities have changed, a few talents have been tweaked, but fundamentally, it's the same darn game with just some more content that you haven't gone through added on top.

You're making it sound like you need a course before being able to execute what is, for most specs, a 3 to 5 button rotation that any reasonable person can figure out for himself shortly.

It's a multiplayer online game. The playerbase sets the mark for excellence. It keeps getting higher as people become more and more proficient at it as time passes by. So, the game welcomes you as an old friend, it's just that that old friend cannot and should not be expected to perform at the same level as someone who's invested more time and effort.

Leave it to WoW players to want to have their cake and eat it too.

[tratra]

This sort of thinking is representative of the problem though. I think that playing the game is simple enough but I do agree that 1) anyone coming back for the start of an expansion is usually met with a character that plays differently than when they left and 2) Two hours of research at a 3rd party website to feel reasonably competent is not something most people will do and looked at sensibly it's a little ridiculous.

It's kind of a difficult design problem: change the classes around every 18 months, add new class functionalities that are not well explained in the game itself, and send people out to group up with others while not fully comprehending what is going on.

It's a recipe for what we see: bunches of people returning, leveling and leaving. People should be able to navigate the game and their characters without a lot of confusion without spending hours on some 3rd party website.

I got a lot of replies, I accept some of the negative ones as they can't understand or feel me, but you definitely hit the nail. I think you are getting the point I am trying to make and although its a very difficult problem to solve design wise, I think we as a community haven't discussed it.
Most of the times you get people saying 'make the game harder' without understanding what that means.
Also I doubt a lot of people replying to me read my post, I never said make the rotations easier or whatever they have in their mind, what I've said is that the game in a previous state around vanilla to wotlk had in mind a design where you could apply a difficult rotation to your character and cheese dps but you could also be a simple person that haven't spent time on 3rd party websites learning about his/her character and still perform okish. That doesn't apply to the current game and its sad that people can't be impartial or at least get in the middle and say that there is a valid argument.
I understand that BFA has made most of the classes feel less than what they were in mop and legion and the rotations have become simpler and thats why people are mad about.

[Azerate]

You are absolutely right. WoW is not an easy game to get into right now. Especially in comparison to various other popular games. In the past it was also quite demanding, but more people were still trying since these were basically different times. Now I am someone who has been playing since 2009 on and off and I can grasp the general idea and play my class somewhat competently, but the reality is event just the classes themselves are very complicated for any potential new players.

And yeah, of course we will get 10000 posts on mmo champ about how the game is easy and classes are faceroll, because these comments are mostly coming from people who spent years in this environment and oftentimes grew up with wow. Unfortunately, looking at the issue from a different perspective is impossible for many of us. I know it might sound ridiculous to many of you, but playstyle in wow is still quite complicated, in comparison to other games. It's a whole different thing whether this should be changed or not, and I have no answer to that one. I'll leave it to the devs to find the happy medium that will hopefully satisfy as many players as possible