Joker [with Joaquin Phoenix]

[Kyphael]

I kinda dig the whole realistic approach to it and the psychological aspect.

It's unlike any Joker we've seen before, and that's a good thing. You don't want a single story for the Joker, you want multiple ones.

Thank you, especially considering I believe Metron said there are literally three Jokers in existence in the DCU's main continuity.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Thank you, especially considering I believe Metron said there are literally three Jokers in existence in the DCU's main continuity.

And then they went back and said "Oh, it's the same guy. But each time he uses his Joker Pit [A shitty take on the Lazarus Pit] he becomes a totally new Joker. Quite honestly, it was a terrible terrible story.

[Sorshen]

Ugh, twitter idiots trying to paint this as the "white incel murderer movie". This is why we can't have nice things.

I'm a bit intrigued by the trailer even tho I'm not a big DC fan lately; this being a Joaquin movie is the cherry on top.

[Malacrass]

Going to watch it because the first trailer was simply amazing.

As for the Joker needing a backstory issue, seriously I don't care and I don't know why anyone does. These old franchises reincarnate in a slightly different fashion every few years, parallel universes and similiar shit included.

Maybe the movie sucks, maybe Phoenix isn't as good as in the trailer, maybe it's super cheesy. But "ruining" the Joker character is the least of my concerns.

[Ihavewaffles]

Yeah, I've been getting the same vibe from the beginning.

My issues, summed up;

1> The Joker should never be sympathetic. Not even a little. Every audience member's gut response to the character should be "Oh god, why . . .", not "he kind of has a point, doesn't he?" Even less so for pity. We get to feel bad for the rest of Batman's rogue's gallery; not the Joker. The man is irredeemable chaos and evil. That's the point.

2> A backstory for a character we didn't need a backstory for. The Dark Knight's approach of "we'll give you multiple stories because it doesn't matter because nothing justifies or explains this" was much better. The Joker, in this, is exactly like a joke; if you have to explain it, you ruin it.

3> This kind of origin story, for a villain, needs to end with the villain's success. He might get caught after he gasses 28,000 people to death (making that up out of nothing but the Joker's affinity for laughing gas bombs, not a spoiler), but he's still gonna mass murder people. If not, it's a story of someone who wanted to be a villain, and failed at it. It's like telling a hero story where the villain wins and the hero loses. It doesn't work. You can give them a Pyrrhic victory, but it has to be a victory. And for the Joker, that's abominable horror. That's what you end on. It can work, for certain types of film (2001's Hannibal is an example; Hannibal Lecter escapes, to continue killing and eating people), but not this kind.

4> Seriously, Phoenix' portrayal makes the guy look pathetic. Maybe that changes, but being a sad sack of shit is a hard baseline to overcome in the final act when you spend the rest of the film reinforcing it. And makes it hard to take villainy seriously, when you know the sad sack behind the mask. Falling Down worked because he was just a regular, decent guy, pushed too far.


If this film were titled literally anything else, had no connections to the DC universe, and avoided the clown motif, it would probably be a great film. Including all that, eeehhh. It's too bad, because Phoenix looks like he really dug into the character, here; my issue's with the writing, not his acting.

The level of criticism u employ here n in other threads vs how u behave in the star wars threads don't add up. You are either being disingenous or have a split personality or just like star wars so much u are unable to see the faults...

Anyways, I don't trust the critics nor trailers, i'll see if this Joker movie is good or check out first audience score..

- - - Updated - - -

This Joker will definitely be a part of a connected universe. Pattinson already slipped up in an interview and revealed spoilers when talking about Joaquin Phoenix, but since it wasn't live asked them to retract his statement. So they wrote that he directly spoiled something related to Phoenix and Joker, but not his actual comment. Since he also said he hasn't seen the Joker movie at all, it's very clear that either he is in the Joker movie or vice versa.

edit: btw, I think Pattinson will have the same effect that Ledger did regarding casting expectations, people being unhappy, then delivering the standout performance in the role. None of these neckbeards have seen his recent work and this dude fucking acts.

People don't line up to detox Twillight by seeing more of the same actor unless he'll star in something that they like, n after it at least get good reviews by someone who isnt kissing hollywood's @ss (like RT)...

[endersblade]

What in the actual fuck did I just watch? Fuck this garbage. I watch comic-based movies because they aren't real. They aren't based in reality. They're fictional worlds with larger-than-life heroes and villains. This just looks like some kook had one too many bad jokes thrown his way and he snapped. I'm not even going to grace this movie with a torrented download.

[apples]

Wrong. If left alone without guidance, people will grow up to accept as normal lots of things our society considers evil and we would look at them as monsters.

yikes those are some big ole blinders youve got on

also, do people think that like, theres only 1 joker in comic books? ill answer my own question, yes, yes they do

[Kallisto]

This seems like some artsy attempt to humanize a character/villain that was never meant to be humanized. He’s not supposed to be relatable. His reasons for doing the evil things he does isn’t supposed to garner sympathy because he was bullied.

But each of the jokers (last account there are 3 of them right now in the comics) have been humanised in the main timeliness. Their past shown to us in the comic medium.

Honestly joker the movie looks like it is heading down the one bad day route that one of them went on about with the killing joke.

[Ihavewaffles]

What in the actual fuck did I just watch? Fuck this garbage. I watch comic-based movies because they aren't real. They aren't based in reality. They're fictional worlds with larger-than-life heroes and villains. This just looks like some kook had one too many bad jokes thrown his way and he snapped. I'm not even going to grace this movie with a torrented download.

ME ANGRY!! ME SMASH!!! GRRR

I hope this does well so they hopefully do some other DC stuff..

[DrMcNinja]

What in the actual fuck did I just watch? Fuck this garbage. I watch comic-based movies because they aren't real. They aren't based in reality. They're fictional worlds with larger-than-life heroes and villains. This just looks like some kook had one too many bad jokes thrown his way and he snapped. I'm not even going to grace this movie with a torrented download.

You seem to quickly forget that the Dark Knight trilogy, while still being a bit in the realm of comic books, had a more realistic take on Batman and the type of villains he faces.

[Life-Binder]

the only Joker on a screen (big or small, live-action or animated) is the DCAU Hamill Joker


everyone else (all live-action Jokers and all non-DCAU animations) are false pretenders

[Jastall]

It does look more cheerful than I would've liked.

Having in mind the movie's rating though, I'm hoping it's being deliberately sneaky with the more psycho, dark parts.

About his origin story being more humanized and try to come by as relatable - a big meh shrug on my part.
There are several stories of the Joker. This is simply one more.

Don't really fancy this one? Next one might be more around your alley. (ie, Jared Leto's - while it wasn't as bad as I expected at first, it's still one of my least liked Jokers)

-

And, honestly, personal complaints about Jared's Joker aside, I really do like that there are several variations of this character, played by different actors, each pulling the actor's own acting power.
While I indeed got some variations I wasn't super fond of, I definitely count as a net positive all the others that - in their own personal way - shapped this character into one of my favorite villains.

I agree, while I'm fully on board with Arthus being a relatable (if messed up) human at the beginning, the Joker as an end product should be a psychopathic monster and the movie should get dark. Maybe not The Boys-tier in terms of gore, but I want to see blood, deranged laughter and horrifying cruelty.

Personally I got some serious Taxi Driver vibes from the trailers. This can only be a good thing if the film follows up on it.

[RobertoCarlos]

I agree, while I'm fully on board with Arthus being a relatable (if messed up) human at the beginning, the Joker as an end product should be a psychopathic monster and the movie should get dark. Maybe not The Boys-tier in terms of gore, but I want to see blood, deranged laughter and horrifying cruelty.

Personally I got some serious Taxi Driver vibes from the trailers. This can only be a good thing if the film follows up on it.

It's almost like taxi driver is an inspiration and there's a reason Robert de Niro is in the film.

If taxi driver was released today people would also be calling it the white incel anthem movie like they are the joker. Because there's no way society can make people cruel and that would be interesting themes to explore.

Nah let's just have the red hood fall into a vat of acid that's far more interesting

[Jastall]

It's almost like taxi driver is an inspiration and there's a reason Robert de Niro is in the film.

If taxi driver was released today people would also be calling it the white incel anthem movie like they are the joker. Because there's no way society can make people cruel and that would be interesting themes to explore.

Nah let's just have the red hood fall into a vat of acid that's far more interesting

I really don't care about your political axes to grind, to be quite honest.

[RobertoCarlos]

I really don't care about your political axes to grind, to be quite honest.

Nothing political.

When Will Smith's next movie is out are you gonna talk about how you're getting Independence day or Men in Black vibes from it?

Wild wild West?

[SirBeef]

It's almost like taxi driver is an inspiration and there's a reason Robert de Niro is in the film.

If taxi driver was released today people would also be calling it the white incel anthem movie like they are the joker. Because there's no way society can make people cruel and that would be interesting themes to explore.

Nah let's just have the red hood fall into a vat of acid that's far more interesting

It's more of a nod to The King of Comedy that de Niro is in it. He plays almost the same character but fully realized his dreams as a successful comedian/host.

[PACOX]

This movie did good at a movie festival, now I'm kind of worried. Movie festival crowds and I tend not to value the same things in a movie. In my opinion, they're movies that try to be artsy and highbrow for their own good.

I'm seeing this first week.

[s_bushido]

I didnt even know this movie existed before all of the pink hairs on twitter freaking out about #muhPatriarchy #muhIncels.

Does a person have to have pink hair to recognize obvious links between this character as he seems to be portrayed in the trailers and the psychology of domestic terrorists?

[Kumorii]

Does a person have to have pink hair to recognize obvious links between this character as he seems to be portrayed in the trailers and the psychology of domestic terrorists?

Isn't joker more about a critique on the societal facades people put up and trying to show what people really want to do without being restrained by whats normal, while deomstic terrorists are more about being ignored and not heard and / or political reasons?

[s_bushido]

Isn't joker more about a critique on the societal facades people put up and trying to show what people really want to do without being restrained by whats normal, while deomstic terrorists are more about being ignored and not heard and / or political reasons?

"For my whole life, I didn't know if I even existed. But I do. And people are starting to notice."

Straight from the trailer.