Joker [with Joaquin Phoenix]

[Lorgar Aurelian]

thank you for showing that there are people with a brain and not all sheeps.

this movie whatever it is, is clearly NOT THE joker....

I personally think trying to make it a dc movie hurt it a lot. I would probably like it a lot more of it was just meant to be a realistic portrayal of some one with mental illness falling to do horrible things though a lack of support.

But when you shove endless Batman references in to the point where you even have crime alley happen it just pulls me right out of it.

I’m under no illusion that I would do better or as well as people just eat up stuff like this but it would have earned more points in my books.

[PACOX]

I personally think trying to make it a dc movie hurt it a lot. I would probably like it a lot more of it was just meant to be a realistic portrayal of some one with mental illness falling to do horrible things though a lack of support.

But when you shove endless Batman references in to the point where you even have crime alley happen it just pulls me right out of it.

I’m under no illusion that I would do better or as well as people just eat up stuff like this but it would have earned more points in my books.

The movie wouldn't have made nearly as much and died at festivals/small independent theaters. Maybe it would have popped up during the Oscar's but the general people would not have seen it like a lot of 'Oscar bait'.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The movie wouldn't have made nearly as much and died at festivals/small independent theaters. Maybe it would have popped up during the Oscar's but the general people would not have seen it like a lot of 'Oscar bait'.

Can't say i disagree with that it being a joker movie is what sold it to most id bet.

[kail]

Finally got around to watching it and it kinda seems like the worse possible joker in media.

Not a bad movie if you want to focus on mental illness but even then I’d say it misses the mark a bit. As a joker movie it just doesn’t hit any points and the throw away batman/Gotham bits were just awful.

I take it you didn't see Suicide Squad, in which consider yourself lucky. If you have the opinion that Joaquin's Joker reflects the character less than SS's teen version, then we are on some opposite wavelengths. The movie was great for me, entertaining acting for the most part. Did it feel very distant from DC comics? Absolutely. Nowhere in any media have I seen Thomas Wayne been portrayed as some dick and it his character surprised me in the movie, even Aflred felt rather off. Having said that, it worked for the movie in building Joker's character.

This is it's own universe that feels different from everything else created (classic movies, Dark Knight trilogy, animated series/movies and the recent DC movies) and at the moment it makes sense, mostly at least. I'd be excited if they built more into this version of DC, too much disappointment for me with DC movies since Man of Steel.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I take it you didn't see Suicide Squad, in which consider yourself lucky. If you have the opinion that Joaquin's Joker reflects the character less than SS's teen version, then we are on some opposite wavelengths. The movie was great for me, entertaining acting for the most part. Did it feel very distant from DC comics? Absolutely. Nowhere in any media have I seen Thomas Wayne been portrayed as some dick and it his character surprised me in the movie, even Aflred felt rather off. Having said that, it worked for the movie in building Joker's character.

This is it's own universe that feels different from everything else created (classic movies, Dark Knight trilogy, animated series/movies and the recent DC movies) and at the moment it makes sense, mostly at least. I'd be excited if they built more into this version of DC, too much disappointment for me with DC movies since Man of Steel.

Suicide squad joker while being really low on the list is still a lot more joker then any part of this movie ever comes close to. Sure he looks stupid and the writing with Harley is way off but he still comes across as some one who can come up with elaborate plans with his own crazy mix to them to sow chaos.

This joker is just like any other mentally ill person who snaps and doesn’t really do any thing makes him distinctly jokery other then laugh. His whole key moment of shooting morey isn’t even something he sets up the show just gets a clip of him and then calls him in he had no hand in it and he just falls into it by chance like almost every thing else in the movie.

The movie isn’t bad the acting is really good but at no point does it ever really come across jokery and the constant dc references ring hollow to me or take away from the movie.

[d00mh4cker]

I loved the movie.

Joaquins acting was superb and i liked that Thomas Wayne was portrayed as a douche because this movie was Jokers perspective. Everyone else seems to think that Thomas is a nice guy but not Joker, and he has his reasons, atleast thats what he thinks.

It really felt like the movie showed you everything from two perspectives, Jokers and the peoples.

Awesome movie. 9/10. Joaquin 10/10.

[kail]

Suicide squad joker while being really low on the list is still a lot more joker then any part of this movie ever comes close to. Sure he looks stupid and the writing with Harley is way off but he still comes across as some one who can come up with elaborate plans with his own crazy mix to them to sow chaos.

This joker is just like any other mentally ill person who snaps and doesn’t really do any thing makes him distinctly jokery other then laugh. His whole key moment of shooting morey isn’t even something he sets up the show just gets a clip of him and then calls him in he had no hand in it and he just falls into it by chance like almost every thing else in the movie.

The movie isn’t bad the acting is really good but at no point does it ever really come across jokery and the constant dc references ring hollow to me or take away from the movie.

Joker in every media was surely clever, hell even genius in planning. I didn't exactly expect that in his creation. If there is a sequel, hopefully it becomes a developing trait but as it stands Jaoquin was able to pull off killings that he just felt the need to do so (kids, mother, coworker and Morey). The joker character has numerous origin stories and this is just another on the list.

[ErrandRunner]

Even if you didn't like the movie, it's hard to fault Phoenix's acting - it was superb. The character in the movie might have seemed unJoker-like, but it was just building up his character from an alternative perspective. In the Batman movies he is a fully-ledged psychotic maniac, it was nice that in this version he had a more balanced character and reasons were given for why he turns into a deranged psychopath by the end instead of just plainly acting like one right off the bat.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Joker in every media was surely clever, hell even genius in planning. I didn't exactly expect that in his creation. If there is a sequel, hopefully it becomes a developing trait but as it stands Jaoquin was able to pull off killings that he just felt the need to do so (kids, mother, coworker and Morey). The joker character has numerous origin stories and this is just another on the list.

I wouldn’t expect him to say steal a blimp and fill it with his own home Made gas but i would expect him to do pretty much any thing with out it falling into his lap. He only kills morey because of what morey does he fall into it instead of it doing any thing on his end that gets it done, it’s the same with his coworker he didn’t invite him over before the show or any thing the guy just shows up. The only part where he actually does it him self is when he kills his mother.

[Zaktar]

Suicide squad joker while being really low on the list is still a lot more joker then any part of this movie ever comes close to. Sure he looks stupid and the writing with Harley is way off but he still comes across as some one who can come up with elaborate plans with his own crazy mix to them to sow chaos.

This joker is just like any other mentally ill person who snaps and doesn’t really do any thing makes him distinctly jokery other then laugh. His whole key moment of shooting morey isn’t even something he sets up the show just gets a clip of him and then calls him in he had no hand in it and he just falls into it by chance like almost every thing else in the movie.

The movie isn’t bad the acting is really good but at no point does it ever really come across jokery and the constant dc references ring hollow to me or take away from the movie.

It's an interesting argument, but ultimately you're just talking about an aspect of Joker, not the whole picture. This was a take on the character, and any take emphasizes some elements while ignoring others. It's just how it goes. If they adapted a different script into a Joker story, they did a serviceable enough job. It felt enough like Joker to me. They made a choice to set it pre-Batman, significant changes to the character are to be expected. I agree that it's the biggest part which feels missing, but there was also an feeling of danger to this Joker that is present in the comics which I just don't feel for any other live action take on him.

If it really isn't Joker, if I accept that premise, then it becomes even funnier that this is one of the highest grossing Batman films.

[RaoBurning]

Saw it yesterday for the first time. It's nigh on impossible to compare different Jokers in any apples-to-apples system since they're all very different types of characters who happen to share some similarities, but in terms of raw "acted his ass off," Phoenix gives Ledger a run for the gold. I don't even remember the last other guy's name--Mr. Damaged--off the cuff. But, goddamn. Joker was a big budget version of a high-brow/low-budget indie character exploration and I loved basically every minute of it.

Just, fucking Joaquin Phoenix man. I never saw him coming in this role.

[ghays]

I loved the movie.

Joaquins acting was superb and i liked that Thomas Wayne was portrayed as a douche because this movie was Jokers perspective. Everyone else seems to think that Thomas is a nice guy but not Joker, and he has his reasons, atleast thats what he thinks.

It really felt like the movie showed you everything from two perspectives, Jokers and the peoples.

Awesome movie. 9/10. Joaquin 10/10.

Indeed. Phoenix will almost certainly receive a best actor no nation from the Academy. Which he should.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's an interesting argument, but ultimately you're just talking about an aspect of Joker, not the whole picture. This was a take on the character, and any take emphasizes some elements while ignoring others. It's just how it goes. If they adapted a different script into a Joker story, they did a serviceable enough job. It felt enough like Joker to me. They made a choice to set it pre-Batman, significant changes to the character are to be expected. I agree that it's the biggest part which feels missing, but there was also an feeling of danger to this Joker that is present in the comics which I just don't feel for any other live action take on him.

If it really isn't Joker, if I accept that premise, then it becomes even funnier that this is one of the highest grossing Batman films.

I wouldn’t say it does any aspect of the joker all that well but would say that the movie is put together well enough that it doesn’t really matter.

Superficially it comes across as jokery due to the look and all the Batman references but when you really look into the joker in any deeper fashion you can see how much it’s just taking the appearance while doing its own thing.

[Zaktar]

I wouldn’t say it does any aspect of the joker all that well but would say that the movie is put together well enough that it doesn’t really matter.

Superficially it comes across as jokery due to the look and all the Batman references but when you really look into the joker in any deeper fashion you can see how much it’s just taking the appearance while doing its own thing.

Have seen a LOT of takes on Joker, and there is no one concept for the character. Just a lot of elements and a sense of "you'll know it when you see it." You don't see it, a lot of us do.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Have seen a LOT of takes on Joker, and there is no one concept for the character. Just a lot of elements and a sense of "you'll know it when you see it." You don't see it, a lot of us do.

I’d agree that there’s no one concept and that it’s a lot of different elements I just wouldn’t agree that this hits any of the elements other then the superficial ones like look.

[Zaktar]

I’d agree that there’s no one concept and that it’s a lot of different elements I just wouldn’t agree that this hits any of the elements other then the superficial ones like look.

What do you believe are the elements that make up the character of the Joker?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What do you believe are the elements that make up the character of the Joker?

So I don’t end up writing a essay with a billion comic pictures as I really can’t help my self here’s a few key things with only a few comic picture.

I think the joker is some one who looks to cause and thrives on chaos he doesn’t try and so it in the shadows like some other characters he makes it flashy to people will see. You can argue that the morey bit in this movie hits that but I’d say the way he comes to it deluded it.



The joker also has a cruelty streak a mile wide he doesn’t just want the people he takes an interest in dead he wants them to suffer either physically or mentally and he takes joy in it.



The joker is a planner even though they lie about it in the dark night. He’s some one who sets things up to meet his ends something I think this movie missed the mark on comply and was hurt because of it. For example he didn’t invite the guy who gave him the gun over to get payback he just shows up, he also doesn’t actually plan out any thing with the morey show they take his clip they contact him it all just falls on him instead of him actually actually trying to make it happen which to me devalues him killing morey on tv to the extreme.



And what id say is most important is that the joker isn’t actually mentally ill. He’s evil he’s insane but he wasn’t born that way he was driven to it in just about every version. This is something I think the year of the joker comic displays perfectly with the character six of hearts who is a lot closer to this movies version of he joker with his own mental illness.

This of course isn’t a comprehensive list as id need to take a lot more time for that and get a lot more comic shots but these are some key parts which I don’t think any good joker showing has done without.

Over all I think the year of the joker comic is the perfect destination between the two with six of hearts being like this movies version of the joker next to the actual joker and I’d recommend every one read it as amazing and I’d post the whole thing here if I could and didn’t want people to support it.

[Zaktar]

So I don’t end up writing a essay with a billion comic pictures as I really can’t help my self here’s a few key things with only a few comic picture.

I think the joker is some one who looks to cause and thrives on chaos he doesn’t try and so it in the shadows like some other characters he makes it flashy to people will see. You can argue that the morey bit in this movie hits that but I’d say the way he comes to it deluded it.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/j1mm954RKl...zf_YxUEQ=s1600

The joker also has a cruelty streak a mile wide he doesn’t just want the people he takes an interest in dead he wants them to suffer either physically or mentally and he takes joy in it.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/c0...1810bfc7a8.jpg

The joker is a planner even though they lie about it in the dark night. He’s some one who sets things up to meet his ends something I think this movie missed the mark on comply and was hurt because of it. For example he didn’t invite the guy who gave him the gun over to get payback he just shows up, he also doesn’t actually plan out any thing with the morey show they take his clip they contact him it all just falls on him instead of him actually actually trying to make it happen which to me devalues him killing morey on tv to the extreme.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SWB_tvFtCu...VDVQKl4A=s1600

And what id say is most important is that the joker isn’t actually mentally ill. He’s evil he’s insane but he wasn’t born that way he was driven to it in just about every version. This is something I think the year of the joker comic displays perfectly with the character six of hearts who is a lot closer to this movies version of he joker with his own mental illness. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/5YGX5zaMpR...o8SXQVCQ=s1600

This of course isn’t a comprehensive list as id need to take a lot more time for that and get a lot more comic shots but these are some key parts which I don’t think any good joker showing has done without.

Over all I think the year of the joker comic is the perfect destination between the two with six of hearts being like this movies version of the joker next to the actual joker and I’d recommend every one read it as amazing and I’d post the whole thing here if I could and didn’t want people to support it.

Yeah, you're describing a very specific interpretation of the character but let me see if I'm getting what you're saying.

The character:

- enjoys causing chaos (this film gets that, we see him take pleasure in chaos which he caused, albeit not deliberately)
- wants to be noticed (this film gets that, it's a central element)
- is sadistic (this film gets that, granted not in as much gory detail as many of the comics or stories)
- is a planner (this film definitely ignores that)
- is not mentally ill

I more or less agree with your list, though not really the last part and in the literal next sentence you describe him as insane and I'm a little fuzzy on the difference between insane and mentally ill. I guess you're describing the difference as mental illness being something you're born with, and insanity being something you are driven to? Seems like a fine line and in any case whether or not the character in this film is mentally ill is questionable. Part the character arc is rejecting that notion and embracing the idea that he finds awful things funny.

Which brings me to what I'd say is the biggest missing element from your list: Joker is a character who finds humor in awful, morbid scenarios, which is something this film pretty much nails. Still though, even based on your list, I'd argue the movie is just missing a piece of what makes Joker, Joker, and pretty much every take does that. Most of them have been ignoring the Joker toxin, which was a part of the character in his original inception. It's just an interpretation of a character, and it's a fine one.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yeah, you're describing a very specific interpretation of the character but let me see if I'm getting what you're saying.

The character:

- enjoys causing chaos (this film gets that, we see him take pleasure in chaos which he caused, albeit not deliberately)
- wants to be noticed (this film gets that, it's a central element)
- is sadistic (this film gets that, granted not in as much gory detail as many of the comics or stories)
- is a planner (this film definitely ignores that)
- is not mentally ill

I more or less agree with your list, though not really the last part and in the literal next sentence you describe him as insane and I'm a little fuzzy on the difference between insane and mentally ill. I guess you're describing the difference as mental illness being something you're born with, and insanity being something you are driven to? Seems like a fine line and in any case whether or not the character in this film is mentally ill is questionable. Part the character arc is rejecting that notion and embracing the idea that he finds awful things funny.

Which brings me to what I'd say is the biggest missing element from your list: Joker is a character who finds humor in awful, morbid scenarios, which is something this film pretty much nails. Still though, even based on your list, I'd argue the movie is just missing a piece of what makes Joker, Joker, and pretty much every take does that. Most of them have been ignoring the Joker toxin, which was a part of the character in his original inception. It's just an interpretation of a character, and it's a fine one.

I never really felt that this joker came across as sadistic more so that he was relived when he got rid of the people who were causing him hard ship but that’s a rather fine line.

As far as his insanity goes I’m not quite sure how to describe it. Mental illnesses are defined and categorized in a way that something like the jokers insanity can’t ever really be. He’s a super genius who almost always knows exactly what’s he’s doing and is aware of the consequences.

I also deliberately left out the humour part as I couldn’t decide rather I found that superficial or not. The jokers sense of humour isn’t really limited to morbid or even awful things and it has a lot of quirks to it that I’m not sure how I’d categorize between all the different jokers or even if it’s something that just gets thrown in for the look like his green hair.

As far as the wanting to be notice bit/causing chaos it never really feels like he cares about the chaos sure he puts on his dance at the end but even during the morey interview he says that he really don’t care about any of it. The being notice bit also felt like he wanted recognition from a few select people but not like he was ever trying to really stand out on a grand scale.

[Kontinuum]

Joker becomes first R-rated movie to gross $1 billion worldwide
https://ew.com/movies/2019/11/15/jok...ion-worldwide/
(and that's without China!)