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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, its worse than Legion, I don't think we can argue about that. But how do we actually know? Because of that twitter-post who said 50% of all players use Weak-aura(wich in itself is just bullshit) or is there any other info about that?

    I mean, I agree with you, it seems BfA got less players than Legion, but how can we know its failing? Every expansion after WotLK failed if we go for that metric. Except Legion who got a boost after WoD, most likely.
    Player activity is being measured by third-party tools like warcraftrealms, they have graphs. Player activity is a bad predictor of absolute numbers, we cannot tell how many subs the game has, but it is great at estimating relatives, as in, we can safely tell whether things fall or grow and which period had less / more players logging in (and this does correlate with subs, although there is a time lag and several other factors like the number of alts which perhaps increases slightly as the game matures, etc).

    Player activity for Legion was worse than for WoD. Legion was perhaps a better expansion overall than WoD, but it was not good enough to reverse the trend of losing players, players continued to leave, just slower than before. Player activity for BFA is worse than it was for Legion in the comparable period. There's no dramatic drop that would be new to BFA - as in, there is a dramatic drop after the initial burst, but big drops after the initial big burst are with us since WoD, they are not unusual in that way, and there's nothing out of line after - it's just the numbers running somewhat lower than before.

    Warcraftrealms is not the only source of data here, we also have arena trackers, wowprogress, etc. It's the same story on all of them: WoD had more players than Legion, Legion had more players than BFA. If they fail with 8.2, we are likely going to see a fairly significant further decline. If they deliver there, we will likely see the numbers stabilizing and perhaps growing a little for a couple of months then dropping back a bit.

    ---

    Example from wowprogress, the number of guilds that killed the easiest tracked boss in the first tier of each expansion, WoD, Legion, BFA:

    WoD, Highmaul, H: Kargath Bladefist - 42070
    Legion, The Emerald Nightmare, H: Nythendra - 39705
    BFA, Uldir, H: Taloc - 29842

    The same picture is everywhere else.
    Last edited by rda; 2019-04-09 at 09:08 AM.

  2. #222
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
    I think if activision layed off some key figures. It would motivate them more to fix things. CS reps isn't really gonna cause that, but say laying off Lore, some devs, and narrative team members. Would prompt faster changes then current. Like most, you gotta accept that Ion really doesn't care about the game. But watch as they probably introduce two more parts of pathfinder. One for the naga zone and one for Mechagon. Wouldn't surprise me if they have it already planned.
    Are you stupid?

    Do you understand how difficult it is to just insert people into teams and make changes like that? This isn't fucking make belief, these are human beings. They got some stuff wrong but you don't just replace people like Ion, he isn't there by luck, he's super intelligent.

    You can't just turn development teams around by slashing half their team and inserting a load of people no-one knows and expect magic.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    Obviously they aren’t going to say ‘BFA failed’, a) because it’s not true and b) because you don’t say that about your own product. You learn and improve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntaer View Post
    No company will say their product is a fail.
    I took part in a Q&A once where we managed to make a tabletop RPG's author to admit his game was crap. But even that was not the same as admitting it failed; in fact, it did quite well, being the first domestically published game in the market. (In fact, it was crap because they rushed it to be the first.)

  4. #224
    Probably because its not. Maybe its time for some doom and gloom people on these forums that will grab onto everything and anything to moan about to take a break and go outside. The game is fine, might not be the best for everyone but that doesn't make it a bad game.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowsrocks View Post
    Probably because its not. Maybe its time for some doom and gloom people on these forums that will grab onto everything and anything to moan about to take a break and go outside. The game is fine, might not be the best for everyone but that doesn't make it a bad game.
    That "logic" can be applied to anything. "Hey guys, we only lost 75~85% of subs since BFA initial launch but the problem is not us/our trash we made but YOU!" And no matter how bad the shit is, there will always be someone defending it.

  6. #226
    " No Company would admit it's product is crap "

    Google Plus

    Cough

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    Are you stupid?

    Do you understand how difficult it is to just insert people into teams and make changes like that? This isn't fucking make belief, these are human beings. They got some stuff wrong but you don't just replace people like Ion, he isn't there by luck, he's super intelligent.

    You can't just turn development teams around by slashing half their team and inserting a load of people no-one knows and expect magic.
    Ion doesn't care, dude. I know because somebody on the internet said it then another guy agreed with that guy.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Pu3Ho View Post
    That "logic" can be applied to anything. "Hey guys, we only lost 75~85% of subs since BFA initial launch but the problem is not us/our trash we made but YOU!" And no matter how bad the shit is, there will always be someone defending it.
    Seeing thats just your opinion with no stats to back t up. Thats all it is. Someone not enjoying a game and having the need to shit over it instead of just quiting like a sane human being would do.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    What? No. Just no. My friends who have kids quit the game because it's inaccessible to them.
    Three IRL friends in their thirties came back to WoW in january after a year long hiatus. By your own metric, can I consider BfA a success then?

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowsrocks View Post
    Seeing thats just your opinion with no stats to back t up. Thats all it is. Someone not enjoying a game and having the need to shit over it instead of just quiting like a sane human being would do.
    Stats to back it up :

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._google_trend/ seems pretty accurate to me and actually pretty much supports the numbers gained from API leak.

    I've quit the game long ago(for obvious reasons), but that doesn't mean i can't be on it's forums for w/e.
    Last edited by Pu3Ho; 2019-04-09 at 09:32 AM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Pu3Ho View Post
    Stats to back it up :

    seems pretty accurate to me.

    I've quit the game long ago, but that doesn't mean i can't be on it's forums for w/e reasons.
    Can't open Reddit in work. But Reddit isn't a source of information. Its a fecking forum.
    And saying "seems pretty accurate to me" doesn't prove anything. It just shows you're biased on how the game is doing.

  12. #232
    The Team feels the rumours of BFAs failure have been greatly exaggerated, but The Team knows it can do better next time.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Pu3Ho View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._google_trend/ seems pretty accurate to me and actually pretty much supports the numbers gained from API leak.
    That's not a good use of statistics (we can go into details and cite specific issues, but in general, that's just someone grossly misapplying the method), but it stumbles onto the same result as other, sound methods, because everything points the same way. So the graph in the link ends up reflecting the situation more or less correctly qualitatively.

  14. #234
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diarx View Post
    The Team feels the rumours of BFAs failure have been greatly exaggerated, but The Team knows it can do better next time.
    "the team" sure does not feel like a team at all

  15. #235
    All Blizzard does is tell outright lies on the rare occasion they make any effort to communicate, release amateur quality unfinished garbage and spin their failures on game systems and design to attempt to remove the focus on their arrogant and lazy ass Dev team that has no kind of work ethic. Boy have the mighty fallen.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Remember when the CEO of Square Enix publicly apologised for screwing up Final Fantasy IV, replaced the project leader, made it F2P for a while, promised to make the game better, and basically remade the entire game? What do we get from Blizzard: "we realised <insert mechanic here> wasn't working as well as we hoped and we're definitely looking at making changes blah blah".
    You mean XIV? If you think the situations is in any way comparable you're a massive moron.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    That's not a good use of statistics (we can go into details and cite specific issues, but in general, that's just someone grossly misapplying the method), but it stumbles onto the same result as other, sound methods, because everything points the same way. So the graph in the link ends up reflecting the situation more or less correctly qualitatively.
    Yet it never once contradicted itself when tested at the time when official numbers were still revealed, even it's isn't entirely accurate - it's still should be extremely close to the general opinion which was formed from other different sources(census/api leak/"mmo-c method/) etc = pretty much what you said.
    Last edited by Pu3Ho; 2019-04-09 at 09:56 AM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    They defended their Twitter/Selfie Cam patch, so you'll never hear them apologize for a thing. And as far as "no company will ever say their product failed", Final Fantasy absolutely did, and it went a long way to building trust and confidence in their revamp.
    Selfiecam patch was still a better patch than 7.3.5 while it didn't add anything it wasn't actively destructive to many people's playing experience like the xp changes were in 7.3.5 especially in dungeons.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Is it just me or is Blizzard just acting like everything is fine?

    Outside of Classic forum communication is non existent, only info we have is directly from Ion with vague promises, 8.2 PTR is not up for a MAJORRRR game changing patch, Lore has been dead silent except insulting people on the forums, devs have been afraid to communicate bugs when reported/confirm them.

    The list just keeps going. Every single thing I see Ion listing out was reported far prior to BFA even launching but how many had to quit and get fired before he decided to put his hubris aside and admit something is broken?

    Nowhere in his interviews is he addressing the casino that is BFA right now and if anything has embraced it even further in dev Q&A's which are few and far between. Where in the hell are the class devs? People are beyond pissed right now about class design and the pruning but there is nothing. Who in the hell looks at prot warriors in MDI right now and does not thing that is just broken and crowding out other tanks that need buffs?

    Guilds have been turned into glorified raid log communities as people are just disillusioned at what is going on right now. Where is the 8.2 hype on the PTR? Atleast then you could get people motivated to stay with the game and not just give up.
    I think they've acted like BFA is failing more than almost any other expansion. We've gotten more Dev talks and apologies in the last few months than we have in the last decade. Or am I wrong? Because it certainly feels that way.

  20. #240
    Because they're convinced that we enjoy excessive RNG, not being able to work towards anything and having everything completely reset every 3 months..

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