The "anti-SJW" crusade against films: Has it actually accomplished anything?

[Cthulhu 2020]

As far as I know "anti-sjw" people don't want censorship, cultural change and shutting up of speech and material they don't like.

Except they do. They're pretty vocal about wanting to stop the movie industry from going in the direction it's going through shaming, making hundreds of youtube videos about them, and telling every anti-sjw to rate a movie as bad before anyone has even seen it. 4chan and other gathering places of anti-sjw and conservative sheep herds had tons of threads of people linking to various web sites, telling people to down rate movies they deem SJW material or compromised by SJWs.

What's that you say? The anti-SJWs haven't used GOVERNMENT to censor people and things? Neither have SJWs.

As I've pointed out many times in this thread, the antis have basically turned themselves into the exact same thing they hate. They constantly act like triggered SJWs and do their best to try and silence opposition.

Without SJW's their "anti" counterpart would be perfectly civil and unnoticed... but SJW would still preach even without the other.
One is a cause, the other is a reaction. Not the same thing.

Rofl, where do you even think SJWs came from in the first place? Nowhere? Everything is a chain reaction, SJWs didn't just suddenly start existing out of thin air, they reacted initially to a culture that hated women, gays, minorities, and became something worse than their original movements. Social conservativism, regressive reactionaries, and social liberals, progressive proactionaries, have been at odds with each other throughout history. I'd suggest you stop trying to argue that the chicken came before the egg.

[BrerBear]

And neither have you. Its been reported all of that Disney buys empty seating to boost its own films box office. Its not that hard to figure out why.

My god, you've really gone full conspiracy loon over the last few years. Sad to see.

If any studio were doing that kind of maneuver there would be evidence all over the place from the theater owners and staff, the customers who wouldn't be able to double-book "sold" tickets, and all the accounting and finance people working through the money across many companies. Do you conspiracy folk even think through this nonsense?

It's like the nuts claiming "millions" of fraudulent votes in 2016 who nonetheless can't identify any of those millions.

You lot hoping her (widely misrepresented) comments were going to tank this movie should take your L and consider just how unpopular your opinions are.

[sarahtasher]

That's a false equivalence.
As far as I know "anti-sjw" people don't want censorship, cultural change and shutting up of speech and material they don't like.
The difference is that SJW want to spread their message by force, "anti-sjw" just want to be left in peace.

Without SJW's their "anti" counterpart would be perfectly civil and unnoticed... but SJW would still preach even without the other.
One is a cause, the other is a reaction. Not the same thing.

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That's not the issue.
The issue is that political propaganda and products made aiming primarily at "cultural change" and "teaching lessons" tend to lack in terms of quality, creativity and daring storytelling.

And I don't think I need to remind that the person in charge of selecting the director and storywriters of The Last Jedi went around wearing tshirts with "The Force Is Female" and boasting about having all-female writing teams... as if that automatically makes it good at their job.

Last Jedi wouldn't have been less bad had everyone been replaced by white dudes, but you can damn well be certain it would've been a better movie if the people in charge weren't so obsessed with preaching, diversity and cultural change.

Again, dude, would you think that stone age teddy bears shooting arrows through fascist goons might have some sort of subtle socio-political message ?

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My god, you've really gone full conspiracy loon over the last few years. Sad to see.

If any studio were doing that kind of maneuver there would be evidence all over the place from the theater owners and staff, the customers who wouldn't be able to double-book "sold" tickets, and all the accounting and finance people working through the money across many companies. Do you conspiracy folk even think through this nonsense?

It's like the nuts claiming "millions" of fraudulent votes in 2016 who nonetheless can't identify any of those millions.

You lot hoping her (widely misrepresented) comments were going to tank this movie should take your L and consider just how unpopular your opinions are.

As said previously, that's the same kind of paranoia and hatred that ended up killing millions of people in Europe in the 1933....but for make believe movies about space wizards and/or people in bright costumes punching each other. And what kind of ''creativity'' your side have ? Making dozens of games in which white Americans shoot Middle Easterners in the head or win the war by themselves ?

[Theodarzna]

That's like saying wrong or right, or just extremism in general, doesn't exist because few people define themselves as extremists and nobody define themselves as evil.

It exists, and the sad mud-slinging match between SJWs and those who make endless videos and forum posts about them and acting like they will bring down society itself is a prime example of this. It's all fucking nonsense that the vast majority of people ignore. Last Jedi wouldn't have been less bad had you replaced all the actors by muscled white dudes. It wouldn't also have been made better by replacing everyone with black transgenders who sexually identify as frogs.

I say it doesn't exist because everyone who invokes it claims their ideology is the center, normal or normative position and its everyone else who is an extremist. I've also seen legions of different ideological camps claim themselves to be the center of the Horseshoe. That is why I don't buy it.

[Kraenen]

There's been a crusade against films? Apparently it really all is in the eye of the beholder.

[Khaza-R]

Anti-SJWs are just a tiny fraction of the population. They seem to thrive on trying to convince people that certain movies are bad because of diversity and inclusion.

I've watched the "SJW" movies in question. Some are bad and some are good. But none of this is because of "forced" minority or female casting. TLJ (which seems to get the most heat) was a bad movie. But removing Holdo or Rose from the plot wouldn't have made it any better. The new trilogy is a disaster. And its mostly because it betrayed its roots as a space opera which set out to tell a story and instead they're trying to make the story up as they go along.

Captain Marvel was about a B- film in my opinion. But that's actually a good thing because Carol Danvers is probably one of the worst, most uninspired Marvel superheroes out there. If Carol Danvers were suddenly a man, he would still be boring and uninteresting.

[Theodarzna]

There's been a crusade against films? Apparently, it really all is in the eye of the beholder.

Crusade is a weird description given the people who tend to be critical of these films are rando's from differing areas and these films and productions usually come from much higher social strata and get lovingly adored by the mainstream media.

To understand how skeevy and pandering these "SJW" productions are, a good view is summarized by Redlettermedia talking about the Ghostbusters 2016 reboot.


Much of the controversy was ginned up, with even mild criticism ignored, distorted or manipulated to spin a narrative around a movie that likely internally was suspected to be a flop. Sony in fact rigged comments on the trailer, deleting generally negative comments but leaving the most intense sexist or racist ones in order to distort the nature of the flak the film got. It's "Wokeness" because a way of essentially marketing the film. Far from being some organic movement by women, this was Sony trying to make money. The controversy was a manipulated ploy to make money and salvage something out of what was a terrible film, and many of the positive reviews were farmed from people already invested in the political angle of the Feminism vs. MRA's angle.

Today all "Woke SJW Media" is resented to this day for about these reasons. Much of it is naked pandering, boring at this point and often seems to be a method of protecting what will probably be a terrible film.

[Theodarzna]

Anti-SJWs are just a tiny fraction of the population. They seem to thrive on trying to convince people that certain movies are bad because of diversity and inclusion.

I've watched the "SJW" movies in question. Some are bad and some are good. But none of this is because of "forced" minority or female casting. TLJ (which seems to get the most heat) was a bad movie. But removing Holdo or Rose from the plot wouldn't have made it any better. The new trilogy is a disaster. And its mostly because it betrayed its roots as a space opera which set out to tell a story and instead they're trying to make the story up as they go along.

Captain Marvel was about a B- film in my opinion. But that's actually a good thing because Carol Danvers is probably one of the worst, most uninspired Marvel superheroes out there. If Carol Danvers were suddenly a man, he would still be boring and uninteresting.

I find the idea that there is a camp of people who just oppose female characters or even "strong" female characters given that this never happened with Alien, or Aliens and it didn't happen with Alita: Battle Angel. A film that had a Hispanic Female lead and Hispanic director. If the mere presence of non-white or non-XY chromosome folk is enough to cause a fury you have to explain why some films have these minor controversies and others don't.

[Pterodactylus]

Oh I have no doubt someone bought it out. Disney is doing some shady stuff lately.

Fucking lizard people.

[Saucexorzski]

Crusade is a weird description given the people who tend to be critical of these films are rando's from differing areas and these films and productions usually come from much higher social strata and get lovingly adored by the mainstream media.

To understand how skeevy and pandering these "SJW" productions are, a good view is summarized by Redlettermedia talking about the Ghostbusters 2016 reboot.

Much of the controversy was ginned up, with even mild criticism ignored, distorted or manipulated to spin a narrative around a movie that likely internally was suspected to be a flop. Sony in fact rigged comments on the trailer, deleting generally negative comments but leaving the most intense sexist or racist ones in order to distort the nature of the flak the film got. It's "Wokeness" because a way of essentially marketing the film. Far from being some organic movement by women, this was Sony trying to make money. The controversy was a manipulated ploy to make money and salvage something out of what was a terrible film, and many of the positive reviews were farmed from people already invested in the political angle of the Feminism vs. MRA's angle.

Today all "Woke SJW Media" is resented to this day for about these reasons. Much of it is naked pandering, boring at this point and often seems to be a method of protecting what will probably be a terrible film.

got to love redlettermedia for point out the obvious is with their humor. lol

[Endus]

I find the idea that there is a camp of people who just oppose female characters or even "strong" female characters given that this never happened with Alien, or Aliens and it didn't happen with Alita: Battle Angel. A film that had a Hispanic Female lead and Hispanic director. If the mere presence of non-white or non-XY chromosome folk is enough to cause a fury you have to explain why some films have these minor controversies and others don't.

A few points to be made, then.

First, there are character tropes for women in action films. Things like the Final Girl in slasher films, the protective mother trope (Ripley fits this fairly significantly, given Newt, the "get away from her, you bitch" line, etc), the hot ass-kicker who's ass-kicking is accepted because she wears skimpy clothes and appeals to the male sexual ego, etc. By no means a complete list.

Films are generally attacked for their female characters when those characters don't fit these tropes. This is why Theron's Furiosa got backlash, in Mad Max: Fury Road. It's why Captain Marvel got backlash. It's why Wonder Woman didn't; see "hot ass-kicker"; she's a dominatrix/bondage fantasy come to life, and pretty obviously had that as her basis in her first comics.

Captain Marvel's outfits aren't sexy or revealing. She doesn't play to the male ego at all. So, backlash. It's arguably why Rey and Rose Tico annoy people so badly, with Star Wars; they're not played up as sex objects. Why not the same reaction to Leia? Gold bikini, 'nuff said.

As for why some other films, like Alita: Battle Angel don't face backlash? The people doing this stuff don't actually have a rational point of view. If you're expecting me to rationalize their irrational behaviour, I'm not going to even try. I will note that they seem to be targeting Disney and related properties with particular venom, though the exact reason why doesn't seem apparent to me.

There's a lot of reason to not like The Last Jedi; I think the movie's a bit of a narrative mess, and I think they gave too much of a "win" overall for it to be the same kind of low point in the trilogy that ESB was. But the bitching about Rey and Rose and Holdo really doesn't hold the kind of water they think it does; those characters aren't the core issues with the film. Picking them out as their targets is telling.

And Captain Marvel? The film's fine. Brie Larson's comments about the press pool weren't racist or sexist, despite the misquoting of them to try and frame them that way. They're trying to make it about the movie being "SJW", but it really isn't. Not unless "main character happens to be a woman but isn't a sex object" is something you find deeply offensive.


If anyone's interested in more detail on the kind of trope stuff I referenced, I liked Innuendo Studio's breakdown using Mad Max: Fury Road as their example (of a film that DOESN'T fit the tropes); there's 8 videos but they're all 5-12m long, easy to parcel out. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...nxCzLbBHU4Dz6R

[Theodarzna]

Captain Marvel's outfits aren't sexy or revealing. She doesn't play to the male ego at all. So, backlash. It's arguably why Rey and Rose Tico annoy people so badly, with Star Wars; they're not played up as sex objects. Why not the same reaction to Leia? Gold bikini, 'nuff said.

Alita: Battle Angel at no point had a child, a bikini or anything like that so let's get that explanation brain working, why didn't they hate on that movie?

[Endus]

Alita: Battle Angel at no point had a child, a bikini or anything like that so let's get that explanation brain working, why didn't they hate on that movie?

Did you miss the latter part where I said these people aren't rational and don't have a rational complaint, and trying to rationalize things like this is a waste of time?

I can describe their own voiced issues. Why they're not consistent about those issues, you'd have to try and ask them.

[sarahtasher]

Alita: Battle Angel at no point had a child, a bikini or anything like that so let's get that explanation brain working, why didn't they hate on that movie?

Agitprop instructions to like it ?

Yes, I'm saying that the usual suspects acts like lemmings. Yet again, Star Wars example : people who PRETEND to be Star Wars fans inexplicably keep droning that Luke being an hermit that kills his nephew ''assassinate'' his character compared to the EU. (1)

While in the EU ''Luke goes on a Jedi quest to give screentime to Han'' is a common plot and Luke fracking get his niece to kill his nephew

(People crying about Rey clearly have not seen Jaina Solo or even worse, Tahiri Veilah, who get more leniency from the Solos than their own son)

(1) Generally speaking, the Empire and the First Order from Disney tone down the space Nazi aspect, if only by having woman and non-white in it's members. When people cry that there was politics in SW, they clearly miss the very start of the EU, the RPG, in which there was space SA and space SS even more expendable than Stormtroopers, space Gestapo, space Hitler Youth and space Goebbels...

[kail]

What makes a movie SJW?

[Theodarzna]

Did you miss the latter part where I said these people aren't rational and don't have a rational complaint, and trying to rationalize things like this is a waste of time?

I can describe their own voiced issues. Why they're not consistent about those issues, you'd have to try and ask them.

So you can't explain it? Despite we have evidence that in the case of Ghostbuster 2016 it was largely ginned up media PR for a film, I.E. a marketing tactic and not organic at all.

You just spent the time trying to rationalize things but then when given a counterexample you say basically "I'm right, it's just those evil sexists aren't always rational." which is another way of saying "My theory doesn't explain that."

Here is an alternative example, demographics don't like it when they are manipulated and shat on by massive media conglomerates and then talked down to by people from on high, especially when their supposed politics is nothing but a disingenuous and dishonest PR stunt for a film that is mediocre at best.

Alita: Battle Angel could have scored major Wokeness points. It had a female character, it had a Hispanic actress and Hispanic director (TAKE THAT DRUMPF!! 111) and by all rights could have even gone farther than lily white Brie Larson and the Captain Marvel PR team did, but they didn't at all. The film, despite having a female character was not hated on.

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Agitprop instructions to like it ?

Yes, I'm saying that the usual suspects acts like lemmings. Yet again, Star Wars example : people who PRETEND to be Star Wars fans inexplicably keep droning that Luke being an hermit that kills his nephew ''assassinate'' his character compared to the EU. (1)

While in the EU ''Luke goes on a Jedi quest to give screentime to Han'' is a common plot and Luke fracking get his niece to kill his nephew

(People crying about Rey clearly have not seen Jaina Solo or even worse, Tahiri Veilah, who get more leniency from the Solos than their own son)

(1) Generally speaking, the Empire and the First Order from Disney tone down the space Nazi aspect, if only by having woman and non-white in it's members. When people cry that there was politics in SW, they clearly miss the very start of the EU, the RPG, in which there was space SA and space SS even more expendable than Stormtroopers, space Gestapo, space Hitler Youth and space Goebbels...

I wasn't talking about your dumb star wars films, idk why you keep going there since you've proven you can talk and interact with people.

[sarahtasher]

What makes a movie SJW?

It's not about two blond blue eyed Waffen SS officers fisting each other and/or the actress wears more than a bikini.

[Endus]

So you can't explain it?

Not being about to rationalize their irrational response is not the same as not being able to explain it. Noting the irrationality is a partial explanation.

You just spent the time trying to rationalize things but then when given a counterexample you say basically "I'm right, it's just those evil sexists aren't always rational." which is another way of saying "My theory doesn't explain that."

No. It is not.

Are you seriously trying to argue that some of these films weren't targeted for brigading and other such attacks?

Here is an alternative example, demographics don't like it when they are manipulated and shat on by massive media conglomerates and then talked down to by people from on high, especially when their supposed politics is nothing but a disingenuous and dishonest PR stunt for a film that is mediocre at best.

"A main character is a woman and not a sex object" is not you being manipulated by PR or shat on by media conglomerates or any of the rest of that bullshit you just dumped on the thread.

Alita: Battle Angel could have scored major Wokeness points. It had a female character, it had a Hispanic actress and Hispanic director (TAKE THAT DRUMPF!! 111) and by all rights could have even gone farther than lily white Brie Larson and the Captain Marvel PR team did, but they didn't at all. The film, despite having a female character was not hated on.

Was I one of those doing the hating? No.

So why ask me to explain their hypocrisy? Are you seriously making your stance that all people act rationally and justifiably at all times?

Because if not, your insistence that I rationalize their behaviour is obviously unreasonable.

If I had to venture a guess, it's because Disney is their real target, and Alita: Battle Angel was A> not a Disney property, and B> was released alongside a Disney property, and thus as competition to their target wasn't something they wanted to target. But that's admittedly speculation. But hey, you're the one asking for speculation.

[LilSaihah]

What makes a movie SJW?

Almost nothing that's actually in the film, it seems. "This wasn't made for you" by Brie Larson seems to have caused more twisted panties than anything actually in the film, there was a little bit of it with the "you know why it's called a cockpit right" sorta stuff but really who gives a shit.

If they actually make a good movie, like you can see with Black Panther or Wonder Woman, nobody cares! Because it's a good film. Captain Marvel, Ghostbusters 2016 and TLJ all have major flaws and 'muh SJW' just compounds on those problems.

[sarahtasher]

So you can't explain it? Despite we have evidence that in the case of Ghostbuster 2016 it was largely ginned up media PR for a film, I.E. a marketing tactic and not organic at all.

You just spent the time trying to rationalize things but then when given a counterexample you say basically "I'm right, it's just those evil sexists aren't always rational." which is another way of saying "My theory doesn't explain that."

Here is an alternative example, demographics don't like it when they are manipulated and shat on by massive media conglomerates and then talked down to by people from on high, especially when their supposed politics is nothing but a disingenuous and dishonest PR stunt for a film that is mediocre at best.

Alita: Battle Angel could have scored major Wokeness points. It had a female character, it had a Hispanic actress and Hispanic director (TAKE THAT DRUMPF!! 111) and by all rights could have even gone farther than lily white Brie Larson and the Captain Marvel PR team did, but they didn't at all. The film, despite having a female character was not hated on.

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I wasn't talking about your dumb star wars films, idk why you keep going there since you've proven you can talk and interact with people.

About anime ? That people pretend that there are no politics in anime does not mean ''politics'' don't exist there-politics is a swear word for ''stuff I don't like''.

Quite specifically, like 99% of Shonen protagonists, from the Gundam pilot who is the hero but so boring that I keep forgetting his name to Eren Y...EAGER (subtle…),the defining trait of Alita is to never back down from a fight despite the odds. While saying that she is a war criminal that essentially did a ''special attack'' on her vastly superior ennemies is probably over interpretation, that she exemplify ''Yamato daishi'' is not.