Immigration System May Have Reached a Breaking Point

[Draco-Onis]

I'd rather listen to someone who actually has worked construction his whole life than your leftist propaganda.

So data even from Fox News is leftist propaganda okay I see where this is going have fun I guess.

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There really isn't any constitutional obligation to provide anything other to foreign residents that wish to live in the United States other than a clear policy around whether or not they may live in the United States. We've developed a kludgy system that does result in court hearings for even quite implausible "refugee" claims, but there's nothing unconstitutional about simply setting a policy that we are not currently accepting new residents from a given country. Citation - the first two hundred years of American history where no one seemed to much believe that there's a right along the lines that you're suggesting.

What you are suggesting is cutting off your nose to spite your face, let's imagine for a second you are right that even if they are on US soil we just send them back without due process. You have then created two scenarios a certain class of people in the US are now immune to the rule of law or have no rights. I don't think you have thought this through at all.

[munkeyinorbit]

This will, and is already affecting Europe.

Devastating climate change could lead to 1m migrants a year entering EU by 2100
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ing-eu-by-2100

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Some more interesting articles:

Climate change is making the Arab world more miserable
Expect longer droughts, hotter heatwaves and more frequent dust storms
https://www.economist.com/middle-eas...more-miserable

lucky we have 81 years to prepare. Its pretty easy, europe has a bread surplus. They can take more. As soon as they don't close the borders. With proper planning this will never happen. Instead of freaking out like a white wing, adjust your life to accommodate others in the world. You really need that upgrade? You really need to upsize? You really need that second helping? I'm not telling anyone to live like a monk but Im pretty sure people in the west can cut back 10% so resources can be used by the non-west.

[Cracked]

Do you think Central Americans are coming here to murder everyone?

Also maybe they're speaking of post 19th century I mean just a thought.

Do you think the Europeans came to murder everyone?

[Spectral]

Where are you getting this instant assumption of "ghettos" from?

I have no idea what "assumption" you think I'm making. What, do you really think it's a controversial claim that middle-class suburbs have less crime than poor ghettos? Are you quibbling with the term "ghetto"? I genuinely don't know what you're getting at.

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What you are suggesting is cutting off your nose to spite your face, let's imagine for a second you are right that even if they are on US soil we just send them back without due process. You have then created two scenarios a certain class of people in the US are now immune to the rule of law or have no rights. I don't think you have thought this through at all.

What I'm suggesting is that if someone from a country that doesn't have an ongoing war or ethnic/religious persecution claims to be a "refugee", there's no need for due process to include a court hearing. The only adjustment necessary is reverting the barrier for credible fear interviews back to requiring that someone actually be from a country where they could plausibly be a refugee in the first place. This doesn't remove anyone's rights - we already have a path to swift deportation if they don't get by the credible fear interview.

Contrary to the claim that I haven't thought this through, I think you've swallowed what amounts to propaganda about how the system works and would need to work to prevent people from claiming refugee status.

[munkeyinorbit]

I am all for people coming here, legally or not; I’m not for exploiting people, or ignoring a growing number of people who don’t support illegal border crossing.

And like I said, that it’s lower is irrelevant, in the eyes of people that don’t support illegal immigration, they should not be here to commit the crimes at all.

When talking about American Illegal immigration every single american is to blame. You have created an industry larger than most countries industry provided by uillegal immigrants. This is the problem, whether you are a "they took our jobs' or a 'think of the children' kind of a person, the horse may have already bolted. Can you even think of the effect on the price of the basics if every illegal got kicked OR if every illegal was granted citizenship? The question of whether you support kicking (killing) illegals or not is moot. America is in such a shape that it would tank the economy either way. Better t just leave it how it is and slowly reign in the corporations.

[Cracked]

So data even from Fox News is leftist propaganda okay I see where this is going have fun I guess.

So since you like msm, https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...ruction-trump/

[Draco-Onis]

What I'm suggesting is that if someone from a country that doesn't have an ongoing war or ethnic/religious persecution claims to be a "refugee", there's no need for due process to include a court hearing. The only adjustment necessary is reverting the barrier for credible fear interviews back to requiring that someone actually be from a country where they could plausibly be a refugee in the first place. This doesn't remove anyone's rights - we already have a path to swift deportation if they don't get by the credible fear interview.

Contrary to the claim that I haven't thought this through, I think you've swallowed what amounts to propaganda about how the system works and would need to work to prevent people from claiming refugee status.

Giant hole in your argument here what about the people here from that country that are already here illegally or are not yet US citizens? You've just set the precedent those people have no right to due process from x country, you clearly didn't think it through because hiring judges is a lot easier than opening Pandora's box.

I guess you want to call the rule of law propaganda that is your right to do so.

[Themius]

I have no idea what "assumption" you think I'm making. What, do you really think it's a controversial claim that middle-class suburbs have less crime than poor ghettos? Are you quibbling with the term "ghetto"? I genuinely don't know what you're getting at.

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What I'm suggesting is that if someone from a country that doesn't have an ongoing war or ethnic/religious persecution claims to be a "refugee", there's no need for due process to include a court hearing. The only adjustment necessary is reverting the barrier for credible fear interviews back to requiring that someone actually be from a country where they could plausibly be a refugee in the first place. This doesn't remove anyone's rights - we already have a path to swift deportation if they don't get by the credible fear interview.

Contrary to the claim that I haven't thought this through, I think you've swallowed what amounts to propaganda about how the system works and would need to work to prevent people from claiming refugee status.

We are speaking of crime rates among immigrants compared to Americans you pop up with ghettos why? Where did this assumption come from. Suburbs are filled with drug crimes as an aside.

[cparle87]

You have three options:
-Raise Taxes
-Cut Services
-Expand the tax base.

My biggest concern, though, with the rampant immigration that's taking place is that people who, like was mentioned earlier in the thread, show up at the border, get a court date, show up, get a visa, then disappear, aren't really being added to our tax base. I'm all for people immigration and integrating into the country and taking part in it. But how do you ensure that the people who are coming are actually doing that and either sneaking in or coming in legally then dropping off the radar and not actually contributing while still receiving some benefits?

And also ensuring the immigrants who commit crimes are either imprisoned or sent back to their home countries to be imprisoned. I live in Silicon Valley and there was an article in the paper of this old woman who was murdered in her own home, the only murder so far in that little town this year, by a migrant who had a record, who had been expelled from the country a dozen times, and was just released from prison. ICE asked the county to hold him when they heard he was getting released from county jail so they could pick him up. County ignored them and just let him go and... well.

TLR
Immigrants who follow the law, migrate legally, work to become citizens. HOORAY, they're what built this country.
Immigrants who sneak in, use loopholes like pretending to be asylum seekers when they're not, or get in and then vanish. Kick them out.
Immigrants who commit crimes. Send them back to where they come from, ensure where they come from tries them and locks them up.

[Spectral]

Giant hole in your argument here what about the people here from that country that are already here illegally or are not yet US citizens? You've just set the precedent those people have no right to due process from x country, you clearly didn't think it through because hiring judges is a lot easier than opening Pandora's box.

I guess you want to call the rule of law propaganda that is your right to do so.

This isn't actually a hole at all - it handles new applicants for what I think is obviously bogus "refugee" status in a straightforward fashion. While I'm irritated by how these claims were previously processed, you're correct that these people now have the right to a hearing. By eliminating new claims, the backlog can start being reduced. By making it clear that you're going to be rejected straightaway at the credible fear step, you'll see many less people making their way north in the first place. This is a simple, straightforward step from a policy perspective - that it hasn't been taken is a glaring example of how little the Trump administration cares about reducing immigration flows from Central America.

[Mehrunes]

Getting rid of judges would solve it. At least that's what Trump has been pushing recently and he's never been wrong, right?

[vipers]

But CNN and the NYtimes told me there was no crisis.

You need to notice that when did they say it and was it then the real crisis otherwise like now when Trump has made by himself for with his actions

[Spectral]

We are speaking of crime rates among immigrants compared to Americans you pop up with ghettos why? Where did this assumption come from. Suburbs are filled with drug crimes as an aside.

There's no "assumption". You're doing something linguistically awkward here, I can't parse it.

I'm stating that for a middle-class, suburban American, the right comparison for illegal alien criminality isn't going to be aggregated American criminality, it's to their local conditions. Yes, an influx of illegal aliens into already poor, shitty neighborhoods isn't likely to make them any more criminal, but that isn't really what anyone should be shooting for when considering what they want their country to look like. Illegal aliens commit crimes at rates that are substantially higher than what's typical in a suburban, middle-class neighborhood, which is a pretty good reason for suburban, middle-class Americans to be unenthusiastic about influxes of illegal aliens.

[zenkai]

What I learned on these forums that the people who keep saying everything is going to automation leaving us with an unemployed workforce is the same people saying we need illegal immigrants to farm for us because we don't have enough free work force.

[Saucexorzski]

What I learned on these forums that the people who keep saying everything is going to automation leaving us with an unemployed workforce is the same people saying we need illegal immigrants to farm for us because we don't have enough free work force.

and also that minimum wage needs to be a living wage....basically everything they push for increases the pressure of government to extract more from its populace. Its almost like they only care because of the power to control folks.

[Spectral]

What I learned on these forums that the people who keep saying everything is going to automation leaving us with an unemployed workforce is the same people saying we need illegal immigrants to farm for us because we don't have enough free work force.

It's an interesting dichotomy. People insist that we need cheap labor to keep things running, but tell unemployed coal miners that they just need to learn to code. If I didn't know better, I'd think the whole project was just the result of some weird, xenophilic worldview rather than a set of coherent principles applied consistently to American economic policy.

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lucky we have 81 years to prepare. Its pretty easy, europe has a bread surplus. They can take more. As soon as they don't close the borders. With proper planning this will never happen. Instead of freaking out like a white wing, adjust your life to accommodate others in the world. You really need that upgrade? You really need to upsize? You really need that second helping? I'm not telling anyone to live like a monk but Im pretty sure people in the west can cut back 10% so resources can be used by the non-west.

This is the kind of thing that rightly gets called "pathological altruism". Telling Europeans that they should accept less for their family to make sure that North Africans can have have more is flatly insane.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

It's an interesting dichotomy. People insist that we need cheap labor to keep things running, but tell unemployed coal miners that they just need to learn to code. If I didn't know better, I'd think the whole project was just the result of some weird, xenophilic worldview rather than a set of coherent principles applied consistently to American economic policy.

No it's fine Trump is going to bring back coal. That's why 2018 saw less coal production than every year under Obama except 2016 and 2019/2020 are forecast to potentially be the lowest years since the 1970s. But don't worry, given that these struggling blue collar workers are vital to Trump's base he is hard at work on plans and programs to assist them and not just feeding them scare tactics and divisionist rhetoric.

[Unholyground]

Maybe the US needs a secondary federal gov formed of rich people who don't suck? There are many of them that do all kinds for communities already and with more freedom to make sweeping changes could help a lot more people.

[The Stormbringer]

And yet the number of illegal immigrants has been dropping every year for some time now.

[Skroe]

It's an interesting dichotomy. People insist that we need cheap labor to keep things running, but tell unemployed coal miners that they just need to learn to code. If I didn't know better, I'd think the whole project was just the result of some weird, xenophilic worldview rather than a set of coherent principles applied consistently to American economic policy.
.

Telling them to "Learn to code" is frankly, being nice but entirely insincere. In truth, their most useful economic future behind coal mining is as a laborer or some sort.

In truth, beyond that, they're economically obsolete and their future is unrecoverable. They will almost never "learn to code" and society is just basically waiting for them to die off.

It's not really complicated. We need as much immigration as we can get, so that they come here, and regardless of their roles in low paying jobs, they will have babies. And we need to make sure that those babies, when they grow up, through education and training, move into careers that are far more lucrative and pay more taxes because of it.

The root cause of this is America's non-immigrant population growth is not enough to create a work force to perpetually support the popular programs Americans want.

If we don't want immigration, tell Americans to start fucking. And not for pleasure. To make more Americans.

Or we need to cut programs that, ya know, Americans want.


Neither will happen. Having one kid in America for an existing, white, middle class couple is obscenely expensive. Having three? Or four? Very rare. Much rarer than our parents and grandparents. And cutting programs? Americans don't do that.

America, if it had a lick of sense, would allow a couple million immigrants to settle her per year. Throw open the doors. Just contribute, pay taxes and follow the laws.