Man Was Sentenced to Die Because Jurors Thought He'd Enjoy Men's Prison Too Much

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

He is a MURDERER.

Yes, he is. But should his sexuality have been a determining factor in his sentencing?

[breadisfunny]

He is a MURDERER.

his sexual orientation is irrelevant when determining sentencing. if the jury allowed it to influence their opinion than the verdict should be thrown out and a proper trial done. this isn't saudia arabia. the evidence should be the only factor in determining guilt.

[Moralgy]

It shouldn't have been a part of any decision at all. His sexuality should never have come into it. Why can you not understand that?

I'm not asking you to feel bad for the guy. I'm just asking you if you think it's okay for a jury to consider a man's sexual preference when deciding his sentence.

I mean holy fuck, its a basic as fuck argument and people just aren't getting it. The two responses to this is something akin to

"But what about all these other bad things, this is nothing compared to the other bad things that happen"

and

"HE IS A MURDERER WE SHOULDNT FEEL BAD FOR HIM"

Like, this forum is god damn special sometimes. You can flat out tell someone "fuck that guy he can die in a fire right now and I wouldnt care" and people will say "DONT FEEL SORRY FOR HIM" if you point out that the jury's reasoning was abhorrent here.

[Elkfingers]

Sounds like an argument against having laws altogether since crimes happen anyway.
At least we can rule out those that get the DP.

Quite frankly, not one person here will shed any tears over this particular example.

I'm trying to work out whether you're just not understanding what I'm saying, or being intentionally obtuse.

My argument is that our laws, and by extension the penalties that the legal system imposes, should be aimed at reducing crime rather than simply punishing offenders.

You don't seem to be at all concerned with harm reduction. Like, your only argument seems to be that 'the death penalty stops that one person from reoffending' - the fact that doing something other than killing criminals would actually help reduce overall crime rates seems to make so little impact on you that somehow the Google Translate in your head turns that statement into 'I don't think we should have laws at all'.

Obviously we should have laws, and frankly I'm actually shocked that I'm even having to type this but there's evidently no guarantee that you won't just decide that I've said something completely different unless I do. The point is that the laws we have should be effective. There is no point having laws if they don't prevent crimes from happening as well as different laws might. Why would any sensible person want their laws to be less effective than they could be?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

It really shouldn't be this difficult for people to say that sexual preference should not be a factor a jury considers when deciding if a man should get the death penalty. You can say that without having to feel any sympathy for this particular individual whatsoever. He's a convicted murderer. Fuck him. But him being gay should not have been factored into his sentencing.

Just treat it as a hypothetical situation. Should someone's sexual preference be considered when determining sentencing?

[Seranthor]

It really shouldn't be this difficult for people to say that sexual preference should not be a factor a jury considers when deciding if a man should get the death penalty. You can say that without having to feel any sympathy for this particular individual whatsoever. He's a convicted murderer. Fuck him. But him being gay should not have been factored into his sentencing.

Just treat it as a hypothetical situation. Should someone's sexual preference be considered when determining sentencing?

Hypothetically, No, sexual preference should not have been considered. That said, people will grasp at anything to justify their decisions on contentious issues instead of owning those decisions.

[Super Kami Dende]

Was there a significant change in the justice system since then that would make sure that something like this cannot happen anymore?

No, but there has been a large cultural change where people would actively push back against it.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Hypothetically, No, sexual preference should not have been considered. That said, people will grasp at anything to justify their decisions on contentious issues instead of owning those decisions.

At least someone finally answered the question...most people seem to react to that question by taking that moment to leave the thread.

Still though..."He's gay so he'll love being in prison" is a pretty big reach for justification for the death penalty. In some ways it's worse..."I feel a lot better sending him to death row knowing that he's gay"

[Seranthor]

At least someone finally answered the question...most people seem to react to that question by taking that moment to leave the thread.

Still though..."He's gay so he'll love being in prison" is a pretty big reach for justification for the death penalty. In some ways it's worse..."I feel a lot better sending him to death row knowing that he's gay"

If one were an advocate of the death penalty you could find more than ample reason to support it in this case. No reason at all to hide behind irrelevant facts or excuses.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

If one were an advocate of the death penalty you could find more than ample reason to support it in this case. No reason at all to hide behind irrelevant facts or excuses.

I agree. I'm not personally an advocate for the death penalty...but I would agree the crime itself was heinous enough to meet the legal requirements for executing someone. But it's besides the point. No one here is arguing that the guy is innocent.

Obviously the jury was considering giving him life in prison...but at least some of the jurors seem to have rejected that idea because of his sexuality. That's the issue. That the tipping point between life in prison and the death penalty appears to be the fact that this man is gay.

[Ihavewaffles]

Yes, he is. But should his sexuality have been a determining factor in his sentencing?

His sexuality makes it a different sentence, if he's with the sex he fancies and other men are not with the sex they fancy, then there is a difference in the sentence those groups get even if judged the same. It would be like having straight men be in prison with straight women.
Obviously sentencing based on perceived sex is nonsense otherwise men would claim they identify as women (I bet some have tried in these times...

Still, that guy is a murderer and instead of him not getting death penalty, everyone should get death penalty that are murderers, that would solve things

[Seranthor]

I agree. I'm not personally an advocate for the death penalty...but I would agree the crime itself was heinous enough to meet the legal requirements for executing someone. But it's besides the point. No one here is arguing that the guy is innocent.

Obviously the jury was considering giving him life in prison...but at least some of the jurors seem to have rejected that idea because of his sexuality. That's the issue. That the tipping point between life in prison and the death penalty appears to be the fact that this man is gay.

the jury screwed up, they do sometimes.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

His sexuality makes it a different sentence, if he's with the sex he fancies and other men are not with the sex they fancy, then there is a difference in the sentence those groups get even if judged the same. It would be like having straight men be in prison with straight women.
Obviously sentencing based on perceived sex is nonsense otherwise men would claim they identify as women (I bet some have tried in these times...

Well, that's a lot of nonsense right there. Life in Prison is Life in Prison...the sentence isn't any different.

Being gay isn't going to get him any special privileges in prison. Contrary to what you might think...Prisoners don't suddenly switch sexual preference just because they are in prison. Sex may happen...but it's either rape or simply a hole of convenience.

- - - Updated - - -

the jury screwed up, they do sometimes.

So, you agree his case should be reviewed then?

[Logwyn]

Was there a significant change in the justice system since then that would make sure that something like this cannot happen anymore?

In some places, the jury just recommends the sentence and it's up to the judge to either overrule the jury or go with what they say. Some places the jury just says guilty or not guilty with no recommendation then the judge decides.

But the steps here of going to the Supreme Court and hoping they decide to hear it is the other path. Seems like he has a good case to have the sentence at least thrown out.

- - - Updated - - -

So, you agree his case should be reviewed then?

I think it should. Sounds like a perfect case for the Supreme Court to review.

[Ihavewaffles]

Well, that's a lot of nonsense right there. Life in Prison is Life in Prison...the sentence isn't any different.

Being gay isn't going to get him any special privileges in prison. Contrary to what you might think...Prisoners don't suddenly switch sexual preference just because they are in prison. Sex may happen...but it's either rape or simply a hole of convenience.

Sentence isn't any different? Lol? I'm sure any straight men would decline the opportunity to spend sentence with women..

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Sentence isn't any different? Lol? I'm sure any straight men would decline the opportunity to spend sentence with women..

I believe your example was sending a Straight man into a prison with Straight women. That's a situation where everyone is with the sexual preference they desire.

This isn't that. He's a gay man. The other inmates will, presumably, mostly be straight men.

[Ihavewaffles]

I believe you example was sending a Straight man into a prison with Straight women. That's a situation where everyone is with the sexual preference they desire.

This isn't that. He's a gay man. The other inmates will, presumably, mostly be straight men.

Dude, it's a US prison, they fuck each other because of pussy abstinence

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Dude, it's a US prison, they fuck each other because of pussy abstinence

Yes...absolutely everyone is Prison is "gay for the stay". Sure.

But yes as i said...sex does happen...but a lot of that sex is rape.

[Easo]

What is with so many of the posters here? Do you really not understand the bigger implications here? Do you really think this will never have anything to do with you?
If there was bias due to his sexuality, what makes you think that it hasnt been applied to other cases? I am not talking about murder, but even small, minor crimes, up to smoking pot in states where it is illegal. What, wouldnt you love +few more years just because jury did not like gays? The big point of judiciary system is impartiality - follow the law and only the law. Cases like these piss on that - so I ask again, do you really cannot see the implications?

[ellieg]

Dudes a waste of life and should be put to death. Gay or not it doesnt matter. Multiple stabs on the 22 year old employee of the business he was robbing, then stabbed him in the skull as he pleaded for his life.

Idc what he is, this person should be put down and it should've happened 25 years ago. If you disagree with this because of a comment made by the jury, you are relying on emotions too much. I'm sure youd wise up real quick if this happened to your family member and you heard ppl arguing about "muh gay hate tho"