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  1. #261
    These were the days :

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    If you're allergic to numbers, Fortnite might be a better fit for you than an RPG, which are about numbers.

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    Plays pet spec within pet class

    Complains about having to use a pet

    Pikachu
    Wow... just Wow on both points.... A) no one was saying that numbers aren't a huge thing in WoW, but in the context of this whole thread, numbers had nothing to do with it, many people don't like the way the classes play compared to the past.

    And B) is a prime example, I DON'T play demo anymore because they turned it into pet management simulator, MoP demo was 1000x more fun.

  3. #263
    Eh my bigger issue is they seemingly keep removing the options I liked to play, mostly for balance and easier management for them. Really liked Blood dps, took that out. Enjoyed the heck out of 2 handed Frost, took that out. Loved the Glad warrior spec in WoD, took that out. Loved the faster pace of swing 1 handers as a fury warrior going as far back as TBC, took that out. Loved Fire mage in Legion, now it feels like a neutered version. Loved Elemental Shaman in MoP, been pretty meh since then. Really liked affliction locks until legion hit, I hate UA as a shard dump. Screwed up Holy Paladin for years with the holy power mess.

    I've just had no luck over the years and trying to find something enjoyable to play each expansion is getting old.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Azerite traits replaced --- de-facto --- tier sets + artifacts + legendaries. You are talking about 2p+4p like everyone had it, but the most interesting period was always when you didn't have it or at least didn't have full BIS. You were juggling pieces to do 2p and sometimes it was better not to go for it even if you had it. Same for 4p. That was choice. And with legendaries the amount of choice was so much bigger than now, it is stupid to even compare. And I am going to ignore different relics with crucible, because I don't even need them to make my point handily.
    Nope they did not replace legendaries, legendaries were scrapped completely because of gigantic shitstorm. Neck replaced artifact, some artifact traits were put in class passives and talents. Thats it. Azerite gear WAS NOT suppose to replace all that crap.

    And no there was no choice, in any decent guild all people had 4sets in 2-4 weeks.
    And no there was no choice with legendaries. All classes had 2-3 BIS ones. Check warcraft logs for legendaries on top players, you will have a dejavu.

    It was simple, you had bis = you rocked dps meters, you didnt? = you sucked. Thats about it.

  5. #265
    This is the first content patch I will probably skip entirely. I've been playing since late Vanilla. As-is, I'm barely logging in once every other week.

    The faction warfare writing is horrendous and threatening to derail the major plot stuff (Azshara, N'zoth, etc).

    I hate this "Megaman" style of class design where the bare specs are barebones with few iterative abilities, then they put on some grindable thing (let's call it a weapon or a neck or a Super Happy Funtime Whatever, I don't care) and act like grinding so that at the end my spec MIGHT be fun is somehow engaging or good.

    If the specs were fun, I'd be leveling alts. Leveling up is dull and terrible right now. Heck, if they didn't insert scaling into every aspect AND nerf heirlooms AND increase xp to level, I'd probably tolerate leveling up too, but that's not the reality, is it?
    If the specs were fun, I'd be hitting M+ at least, if not raiding.
    If the specs were fun, the majority of my in-game friends would still be playing, by their own admission/discussion.
    If the specs were fun, I could overlook them forcing RNG into every aspect of the game and especially gearing.
    If the specs were fun, I could overlook how utterly uninspired their armor designs have been (I love transmog).

    People can plug their ears and scream; "BUT I LIKE IT" all they want, but the reality for me is as I've described. I'm not complaining because I love complaining about everything (what a pointless thing to say--if you're going to come to a thread just to say that, please unplug your router for 5 minutes and consider what, if anything, you add to the discussion) I can't speak for others, but I personally don't like wasting my time hating something, so I'm moving on, too. They can dangle mounts and forced war mode content (what a hilariously ill-fated idea for PVE content...) and pets and whatever, but until they actually design the core aspect of the game (the SPECS) to have engaging, complex, deep, options, it's lipstick on a pig as far as I'm concerned.

    Regarding the lore/story, I gave up on that in WoD and nothing that's happened since has done anything to prove to me that it wasn't a smart decision.
    Last edited by Shambulanced; 2019-04-17 at 10:50 PM.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I much prefered mop demo instead of Zoo Manager light sorry, turning into a demo was awesome and a lot of that has been lost on DH's meta being a CD.
    There is very little actual managing of your pets in Demo. Jesus. You want to make sure you have as many pets up as possible when you hit your Cooldown, but outside of that, it's just pop everything on cooldown. Getting rid of Empowerment was a huge step in the right direction.

    BfA Demo is second only to Legion Shadow at 40%+ haste, and everything else is a distance third at best.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    There is very little actual managing of your pets in Demo. Jesus. You want to make sure you have as many pets up as possible when you hit your Cooldown, but outside of that, it's just pop everything on cooldown. Getting rid of Empowerment was a huge step in the right direction.

    BfA Demo is second only to Legion Shadow at 40%+ haste, and everything else is a distance third at best.
    I get it, you love BfA demo, i think it's a HUGE step down from mop demo, but to each their own.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I get it, you love BfA demo, i think it's a HUGE step down from mop demo, but to each their own.
    I loved Legion Demo too if it weren't for Demonic Empowerment and Demonwrath, which made the spec awkward as hell. Before that, Demo was fairly generic with its Metamorphosis mechanic, which just made everything instant but largely the same. I honestly don't understand why so many people have a hardon for it. Demo tanking was kinda sorta cool, but a gimmick, and nothing more. If it were more heavily supported as a legitimate tank spec, I may have been more on board with it. Outside of Demo, it was just this weird bastard spec between destro and affliction that didn't excel at much except for mass AoE, which has, for the most part, been fairly rare in relevant content. I've always wanted to love Demo over Destro and Affliction, but I never actually did until Legion.

  9. #269
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    until they actually design the core aspect of the game (the SPECS) to have engaging, complex
    Amendment: "the SPECS" shouldn't even exists, classes' design is the core
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-04-19 at 09:03 AM.
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  10. #270
    The Lightbringer Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    All they said it that you have to collect the Essences. They didn't say anywhere that they will be 100% drops or gains from things.

    The new Blizzard loves RNG. Safe to assume this system will have it too since they tend to learn nothing from other failed systems like Legendaries.
    These essences look like they will be mini-legiondaries all over again, but watered down - there are only a handful of class-specific ones, most are generic tank/heal/dps cooldowns. And for what I saw on wowhead, some are grossly OP while others are just meh. Yeah, sure, it's just PTR and what not, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazinger-Z View Post
    Class design [in BfA] is the rickety bridge upon which it all lays, but the rest of it are the arthritic elephants with irritable bowel syndrome trying to cross it.

  11. #271
    Love playing my resto dru, nothing wrong with that class design.
    Maybe play a different class, mabye take a break?

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Amendment: "the SPECS" shouldn't even exists, classes' design is the core
    I don't agree, and what we have right now are specs, not 'classes,' so my comment stands. Don't 'amend' others' statements.

  13. #273
    Completely agree with OP.

    Nothing is fun when the rotation and spec feel bland and unimpactful.
    Too bad the devs are really stubborn and refuse to do any fixes until a new expansion hits. Ruining any potential for this expansion to be fixed and made better.

  14. #274
    The Unstoppable Force Eleccybubb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    These essences look like they will be mini-legiondaries all over again, but watered down - there are only a handful of class-specific ones, most are generic tank/heal/dps cooldowns. And for what I saw on wowhead, some are grossly OP while others are just meh. Yeah, sure, it's just PTR and what not, but...
    It's basically just glyphs 2.0 and there will probably be some reliance of RNG involved. Either in 8.2 or in the future.
    Unworthy is the rule whose subjects seek the solace of false gods.. Gaius Van Baelsar (Final Fantasy 14)
    I refuse to be a slave of fate! I will be the master of my own future! Shir Gold. (Phantasy Star 2)
    FF14 is the best MMO on the market right now. (Me)

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post

    BfA has definitely a more solid class design.
    HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.
    Thank you for cheering up my day; I needed a good laugh.

  16. #276
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    I don't agree, and what we have right now are specs, not 'classes,' so my comment stands. Don't 'amend' others' statements.
    I didn't ask if you agree, I just said as it is
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    There are effectively 36 distinct classes.
    Finally! It was officially recognized (exactly this wording)
    but to calm yourself you can call them whatever you want. But my message wasn't about this at all, rather about fact that it was orientation towards "specs" and their "fantasy" that precisely became one of key directions in destruction of class mechanics, while the lasts ones' fantasy should be the core. Is it more understandable now? It was their main objective reason for pruning, you (well, not specifically you, although it possible could be you, I just can't know, but in general) and your whining actually untied their hands.

    Do you want to hear about other major flaws? Role priority over fantasy in principle and arena/E-sport/challenges balance direction, but that you could read in explanatory links already. Also PvP/PvE dividing of classes' mechanics, cutting classes' stuff for creation "items-carriers", but these all are already other separate burning topics.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-04-20 at 04:04 PM.
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  17. #277
    High Overlord Mightytasty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild View Post
    Love playing my resto dru, nothing wrong with that class design.
    Maybe play a different class, mabye take a break?
    Healers are fine. Try DPS.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    It doesn't matter how many mechagnomes or naga they throw at us, how many dungeons or zones or raids or features they throw at us, all of it is completely pointless if our characters are not fun to play. Not a single word today about class changes planned for 8.2.

    If we have a look at the content patches of past expansions like MoP, they offered less raw patch content than the 8.2 patch but the content was enjoyable to repeat because the classes that we were doing the content with were fun and the content itself was fun. Slapping on a few essences and punch cards isn't going to get anywhere near repairing the foundations of these classes. As a result, I anticipate that 8.2 will be another unsuccessful patch. Blizzard has once again focused its resources in all the wrong areas.

    I can only hope that Blizzard learns a valuable lesson from how unsuccessful 8.2 will be and really focuses on class design moving forward in 9.0. They need to go back to basics, strip away the Heart of Azeroth, the Azerite traits, the punch cards and all the other gimmicks and get the foundations right. That is the only way that they will win players over at this point.


    Good save your money and quit. Everyone reviewing online seems to be enjoying it. I enjoy the current content 7/9 Mythic 6 hours a week.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You are right, complains in legion got to LEGENDARY level, a shitstorm of 11/10 magnitude about: Legendaries, Camera changes and various other things. I havent seen so much complains anywhere else as on WoW forums when Legion was a thing.
    A bonus, 143 pages thread about camera: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748204616
    Because Legendaries and class design are the same thing.... 1 is a piece of gear you wear and the other is the core to how your class plays. Also want to point out by this time in Legion they had mostly fixed Legendaries which is why the post you brought up was in 2016 and not in 2017.

    Its 2019 and the class problems that were in 2018 still exist now.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You can check it yourself:
    https://github.com/kaminaris/MaxDps-...Demonology.lua
    search for "azerite" and you will see how much azerite affects rotation
    or if you prefer simcraft style:
    https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...emonology.simc

    You can find other classes too and browse them yourself either on my repos:
    https://github.com/kaminaris?utf8=✓&q=Maxdps
    Or simcraft profiles:
    https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...rofiles/Tier23

    I don't have to prove you anything since I wrote all of those modues, tested them and I know how azerite affects rotations.



    Pruning peaked at legion, but again, a lot of buttons =/= fun rotation
    Most of legion traits were just passives, some of them were moved to talents
    Now you have those traits in azerite gear

    MoP had a lot of class issues, a lot, like unused spells. Blizzard did it because they listened to feedback.
    You are absolutely right that lots of buttons doesn't mean a fun rotation. Still: the CHOICE of having many buttons is better than pruning everything away, leaving every class with a fixed rotation. Having situational tools is not a bad design at all. Just make them situational. Even if they are unused or rarely used; as long as they bring something of value, it's not bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    rofl, you think they removed tier because of the artwork? Not the cries every tier? "MY TIER SET SUCKS, PLEASE BUFF???1111" every tier? Short memory.
    No, it's exactly because of the artwork. This makes sense because they now introduce the heritage armor. With it, you need a tier-set for every race. Second i think that maybe in the next expansion comes something similar to allied races for classes. Maybe a sub-class or something like that with only 1 spec. But for them they would need at least one iconic armor too. So yes; removal of Tier-sets was NOT because of set-imbalances; because if this was the case, they would have removed the sets already in vanilla. (there was already enough crying about the t2 and formost of the t3-sets in the forums)

    If this really was the case, then they still could throw out cosmetic tier-sets for the classes.

    Having 1 set for 12 classes every raid-tier was simply too much. This still does not change the issue that with the removal of tier-sets after the total destruction of specs they also destroying class identity with it. Having only neutral T-sets will not give you any real feeling to the set at all. Yes, there might be an good azshara-underwater-themed set coming; but still: does this really weight up an genuine warlock-set. A Paladin set or something like that? Warriors will have the least issue with it; since all upcoming plate-sets will not have anything unholy/holy or something like it; since every set will probably be as neutral as possible, and neutral means warrior.

    But in the end: Removal of Tier-sets was bad.

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