"Mythic Crucible of Storms will be just as hard as Jaina"

[Nitros14]

The problem is, Blizzard doesn't properly test their raid encounters, and when they do have testing they rarely listen to feedback. Don't blame the players for coming up with a creative solution to a fight that's numerically overtuned to do the way they "intend". It's time people started to blame Blizzard for their fuckups not the players for finding solutions to problems.

Oh I do blame Blizzard.

They should've nipped that zerg strategy in the bud immediately by making the elemental make Jaina immune to damage while it's alive. Then nerfed phase 3 to be doable with a non-zerg strategy. Method would've been upset but at the end of the day that's one guild.

Instead they just left it and we got this RNG shitfest.

[KaPe]

Oh I do blame Blizzard.

They should've nipped that zerg strategy in the bud immediately by making the elemental make Jaina immune to damage while it's alive. Then nerfed phase 3 to be doable with a non-zerg strategy. Method would've been upset but at the end of the day that's one guild.

Instead they just left it and we got this RNG shitfest.

Do you remember the tears that flowed from Method's stream (watchers, not players... mostly) when it seemed like they fixed elemental to actually cast Frost Nova at full energy despite interrupting the volleys? So many people were crying that Blizzard did that just so US can win, how horrible they are, they shouldn't do this, etc. Honestly, it'd be hilarious to watch them actually change P3 for good, if only to see people flip out.

I wonder if they'll actually stick to their guns and change stuff if Crucible has similar "unintended" strategies.

[kamuimac]

It's a reason why I'm not a fan of releasing CoS after BoD. Helya was tough back in Trial of Valor but she came after a stupid easy raid and it was a handful of months before we entered Nighthold, a 10 boss raid.

Now we're in a fairly easy 8 boss one with a difficult endboss. A lot of guilds are progressing on Jaina still (including yours truly's) and in the midst of that, or shortly after the kill, Blizzard tells us that we'll now have to learn a Mekkatorque-equivalent boss, and then another Jaina right after? This will be burnout city, population us. We'll probably clear Crucible on Heroic then ignore it until Jaina's dead, unless the loot is really great.

they really fucked up with loot there didnt they -_-

loot should have been at least 20 if not 25 extra itlv with how limited its loot table is.

atm most people have 0 reason to progress it.

i bet you they will buff loot by extra 10 itlv once they realise nobody is doing that raid.

similiar shit to what happened in WoD to Blackrock Foundry when they had to bump loot just so people feel its worth to do

[Gaidax]

It's only 2 bosses, they better not fall over in 10 pulls or something. We do need some stuff to be busy with during this 2 months stretch to 8.2.

[Tech614]

they really fucked up with loot there didnt they -_-

loot should have been at least 20 if not 25 extra itlv with how limited its loot table is.

atm most people have 0 reason to progress it.

i bet you they will buff loot by extra 10 itlv once they realise nobody is doing that raid.

similiar shit to what happened in WoD to Blackrock Foundry when they had to bump loot just so people feel its worth to do

Last boss on mythic literally drops loot at ilvl cap for the season already. There is no buffing the ilvls on this loot mate, not gonna happen. It's a filler raid, it's not meant to gear you up.

[Lawlhero]

I don't mythic raid so as a raider I don't have anything to say about the difficulty for the raid, but as a method raid viewer, its exciting to see another potentially close race.

[Spotnick]

The hardest Cutting Edge to get so far was Blackhand, that tier was very short. 4 months for 10 bosses. If you expect Azshara's palace at the end of June, that would be 6 months for 11 bosses in both raids... plenty of time.

[Polarthief]

As a guild that has done half their third week on Jaina (we're a 2 night a week guild), we've just accepted that Jaina is more important and we'll try Crucible after her. We did heroic last night (an optional Wednesday night, not a usual raid night) just to check it out but we're not gonna bother with pushing mythic yet. We've given the go ahead for our raiders to pug it as they please.

Honestly it sucks and feels like giving up a CE but getting Jaina is a thousand times more important than some rando 2-boss raid showing up out of the blue.

- - - Updated - - -

Last boss on mythic literally drops loot at ilvl cap for the season already. There is no buffing the ilvls on this loot mate, not gonna happen. It's a filler raid, it's not meant to gear you up.

The problem is most of it is so poorly tuned because of how shitty the effects are.

Some of them are actually really good (DPS trinkets and a few select pieces), but most are just total crap.

[ramayana1423]

Unless the Mythic mechanics are brutal, it simply isn't going to be true, because he was a complete joke on heroic.

[bullseyed]

Are you suggesting you want end tier Mythic bosses to be a push over?

Are you suggesting you want the second boss in the raid to require months of progression for non-world first guilds when the next raid comes out in 1 to 2 months?

The boss difficulty will need to be tuned so over 1,000 guilds can clear it in about 4 weeks, because that's all the time they'll have where it is relevant content.

And calling it relevant is a stretch with how bad the loot is.

- - - Updated - - -

ToV was significantly harder than Xavius (Helya was leagues harder than Cenarius, for a more fair difficulty comparison). What use is there in complaining that Mythic bosses are actually a challenge? If you, or other mythic raiders don't want to do them, then don't?

In 4 to 8 weeks when the new raid drops, the gear rewards will be heroic-equivalent at best. Mythic isn't even out yet. If it takes the top guilds a week or two to clear, that potentially leaves just 1-3 weeks for all the other cutting edge guilds to clear it. And if they've spent months on Jaina and it's the same difficulty... they'll get it down after the next raid has already been beaten, for shit tier loot.

So either it needs to be so easy that 1,000+ mythic guilds clear it in just a week or two... or they might as well not have released it at all.

- - - Updated - - -

The number of Jaina kills is still tiny. Like ~300.

And the recent nerfs did very little to ease the encounter.

If nothing is done to greatly ease Jaina you're going to see an incredibly tiny number of people get CE in Crucible.

I don't have a problem with more mythic bosses, but it does kind of suck to not have enough time to progress them. Because you know as soon as Azshara raid releases in July/August the old raids are completely obsoleted.

And large numbers of people in the ~700 other mythic guilds who then miss out will quit, throwing the game into a tailspin.

BfD has been badly tuned since the start. Granted I haven't optimized my opportunity by guild hopping, but many low to mid mythic guilds are wiping night after night to progress on bosses they already don't need any loot from that isn't WF/TF. That's a good way to kill the game.

With CoS many guilds are already saying "clean it once for achieves if we can and never go back".

[KaPe]

Unless the Mythic mechanics are brutal, it simply isn't going to be true, because he was a complete joke on heroic.

You are aware that you most likely overgeared the fight by 20ilvls or so, right? The mere fact that this boss has Star Augur's main mechanic will prevent him from being "complete joke" and that's on top of everything else.

[Netherblood]

Unless the Mythic mechanics are brutal, it simply isn't going to be true, because he was a complete joke on heroic.

Do you remember Argus? That fight was 1 shot in pugs and was complete joke on heroic and then it was super brutal on Mythic. The fight could have no new mechanics on Mythic, and everything just has double hp and everything does 50% more dmg and it would be brutal. Tuning of it will decide everything.

[Crysth]

Do you remember Argus? That fight was 1 shot in pugs and was complete joke on heroic and then it was super brutal on Mythic. The fight could have no new mechanics on Mythic, and everything just has double hp and everything does 50% more dmg and it would be brutal. Tuning of it will decide everything.

TBF Argus was a complete joke week 1 due to a bug. After it was fixed, the difficulty spiked up a bit, making pugs take a couple more weeks before he was deemed “pushover” level. Uu’nat was a pushover even for a heroic pug, which doesn’t normally happen on first week without a bug.

[Cracked]

You are aware that you most likely overgeared the fight by 20ilvls or so, right? The mere fact that this boss has Star Augur's main mechanic will prevent him from being "complete joke" and that's on top of everything else.

I mean.. by that logic you overgeared Helya too and it was no joke on heroic (comparatively).

[GreenJesus]

Unless the Mythic mechanics are brutal, it simply isn't going to be true, because he was a complete joke on heroic.

Yep. We got world 200s kill on him and it was pretty easy. We kites the boss on the outside and stacked to drop puddles as far out as possible and as circle came closer the puddles were effectively "gone". We didn't have to clear a single puddle. And clearing them with void stones Is one of the major mechanics.

[Freshouttajail]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=291143/...mbalance-cruci

How do majority of cutting edge guilds feel about spending another many weeks on another raid ? If your guild is 8/9 on Jaina and hasn't killed it yet, how will you feel about having another boss to progress on directly after killing Jaina that will likely eat up just as much time. And in conclusion how do you this raid will do in the world race, another week 1 clear ?

"Waaaahhh it takes too long."
"Waaaaaahhhh it doesn't last long enough."
"Waaaahhh it's too hard."
"Waaahhhhhhh it's too easy."

Just take it as it is and leave if you're not happy, what the fuck man.

[KaPe]

I mean.. by that logic you overgeared Helya too and it was no joke on heroic (comparatively).

And Jaina is completely trivial when overgeared but will still destroy you on Mythic for hundreds of attempts. There's plenty of cases where things which "hurt a lot but don't kill instantly" on heroic become "dodge or die" material on mythic. Making some things last few seconds shorter or longer can dramatically change the threat some abilities present.

It's probably more down to the amount of options you have in this fight. On Heroic, you can use the special abilities almost randomly and things will still die. Little exploding adds don't do nearly enough damage to punish you for killing them in groups. "Undying" adds don't have a stacking damage buff. Things don't hit hard enough to punish you for bad Void Stone timing. Push these numbers up a bit and suddenly things become hugely more punishing - especially when you add "hug a wrong person and everyone dies" mechanic.

[trm90]

The mythic mechanics will make this fight pretty punishing, it'll be a pretty coordinated dance akin to Helya. There's plenty of overlapping mechanics where people are frantically moving around, stacked, in tight spaces as the beams come through or the arena closes in. This makes it really easy to accidentally collide non-matching signs and there's a lot of personal responsibility. Especially in P3 when you need to stack to heal people up via Torment. The adds also enrage fairly quickly so you have to Storm more frequently, which means tighter DPS/HPS checks.

Plus, people are straight up ignoring the relics in heroic P3 and you 100% will need to clear Tears or combo the Bubble with the Storm, all while spreading and stacking at the right time. Really looking forward to watching the streams next week, even if it ends up being a 100 pull boss.

[ddsad2212]

Hopefully it is tough honestly. Still have a decent amount of time until the next patch and even if your guild isn't finished with Bod its nice to have a change of setting.

[Thelxi]

As long as the difficulty escalates logically per boss I am all for pushing mythic to be the highest difficulty possible. The loot itself though is pretty easy to discount as undesirable/unfun/punishing though, especially in this time of warforging/titanforging, so pushing the difficulty with this raid might not work out too well.