[Spoilers] All the horde leaders are terrible

[Super Dickmann]

Exactly this. He basically had no other choice anyways and fighting with the night elves without demon lust and especially after fighting the burning legion would be a huge mistake

Scroll up. This was all already addressed and the material itself tells you as directly as possible that Thrall knew he could settle better but chose not to to induce racial penance. Any factual assessment would tell you the same thing which is why I assume the guy stopped replying after a few fairly contradictory arguments.

[Leodric]

Oh my Mehrunes you ain't changed have you, you're so like my boyfriend. Are you angry all the time you post? Or do you generally love confrontation

I sometimes wonder what sort of life you live, you upbringing and background, you in a class room or on the sports field or any setting you can be competitive. Who your friends or siblings were, and if your life is constantly a battle or you are constantly angry. .. so curious.


I did notice you took a break , was that from wow altogether or just from posting? And I can tell you're not impressed with what's come out recently for a while. Any silver linings for you in the wow story? or anything that's been done in Legion and BfA? I'm curious because I can tell by the above response and others from you I've read that you think a lot of the stuff is shit, but what I don't know is the stuff you actually liked. Presumably you still either play wow or check on on it or you wouldn't post, somethings got to peak your interest.

Kek, the only amusing thing to see is someone who is obviously on ignore by many people still quoting them. It reminds me of my little cousin when I was younger who always wanted to show us what he played with, kinda cute, but imagining that kind of behaviour on a grown up person is kinda unsettling.

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Hey op, noticed you missed some out.

Thinking kinda bias aren't we?

What do you mean, Sylvanas brought nothing but joy to the Horde and can never do wrong

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Maybe you should look up what xenophobia means before you call the NE xenophobic.

I perceived the NE as xenophics during WC3 as well, with good reason considering what they have been through. How would you have called them during that time when Thrall wanted to establish a new home for the Horde?

Infracted.

[La]

They can't even handle writing one shitty Warchief, how are they going to manage to write several leaders?

[Powerogue]

Thrall - just because they weren't thriving doesn't mean they were suffering. Would it really have been a good idea to pit themselves against the night elves on their own turf with the fledgling Horde? Especially at the time when he was still attempting to maintain neutrality with the neighboring humans of Theramore, keeping a low profile was a good idea. He wanted to send a message to the world that this wasn't the "conquer the world in the name of the demons!" Old Horde.

Saurfang - yes he's absolutely a hypocrite and exposes how the Horde's concept of honor is ill-defined and subject entirely to how the individual perceives it. Still, "poisoning food supplies and killing civilians unprovoked" where the hell did you get this stuff?



Baine - preventing Sylvanas from doing something cartoonishly evil to drive further wedges between her and the rest of the Horde was a good thing. He knew there would be consequences, and faced them. I'm with Talanji, give him a fair trial. Sylvanas was a pathetic coward to shoot Zelling in cold blood in front of everyone without even letting him explain himself. The Horde will not survive under that "leadership." Even the Forsaken are starting to notice that. She's used to everyone under her treating her like a goddess, and she's resorted to purging those who don't (Zelling and the Desolate Council). If she keeps that up, who's going to be left?

Lor'themar - Really? Pinning the blame on him for considering alternate means to protect his people when Garrosh's recklessness was destroying them? A leader has to do what's best for their people. Meanwhile we saw what happened to those who did stay unwaveringly loyal to the warchief even when he no longer had their best interests at heart. They're all dead now.

vol'jin - I assume that apology to Jaina was in a book I haven't read? Much like everything else it seems safe to say you took some very creative liberties with interpretations.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Talanji, Thalyssra, Rokhan, Plothanos, and Gallywix are the only ones interesting and haven’t gotten OOC

[Puthred]

Warcraft lore always had insane potential, but everything spiraled out of control so fast we can't even point fingers and determine where this shitshow began.


It's gonna take quite a bit of talent to salvage it, if it's even possible.

[Wilfire]

We are all missing something really obvious.

Baine wasn't outraged about Teldrassil because in his eyes, it was a legitimate military target. He likes Jaina and Anduin and therefore humans are not a legitimate military target. He dislikes Sylvanas and therefore Forsaken sailors are a legitimate military target.

The Tauren that got gassed during the Siege of Lordaeron were also a legitimate military target.

[Dagoth Ur]

Btw I am not sure we talked about this yet, but how do we all feel about Cairne totally giving the thumbs up to Baine in the Tauren Heritage Armor quests?

Do we have the dialogue somewhere? I'm sure they'll have Cairne aprove of Baine's choices, I just hope he throws a couple of "advices" in there too .

[Ramz]

Voljin didnt get a chance to be terrible, but he ordered the unprovoked attack on Ashran, and he apologised to jaina about the purge of dalaran, agreeing that butchering the sunreavers was justified

Ashran isn't canon from what I know. As for Sunreavers, should he declare war over them? I think he didn't had any means after defeating Garrosh to actually enforce any claims. Even if he would demand for them to be released, I don't think Horde as a faction was in position/ power for such thing sadly. So he did other best thing to do(according to Golden), clam things down and demand for it to never happen again. Because poor Jaina could never be questioned over her actions. Nope, she is sad and tortured.

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Not sure if you can consider him as a good leader when he refused Garrosh as warchief from the start.
Openly threaten him that a black arrow will hit him when he will not see it coming.
Vol’jin had to know that a warchief that is an Orc cant let that fly because his troops would see him as weak:

Vol'Jin threathened Garrosh after Garosh first thrown a threat on him "You're lucky I won't gut you right here whelp!" was the trigger that escalated things. It was Garrosh fault.

How many times Vol'Jin was running around getting into heaty argues and threat people? Oh right, just Garrosh.
And how many times Garrosh was threathening people? Multiple times.

If Vol'Jin wouldn't react people would call him weak puhover that lets other roll over him, and this way he showed that this kind of behaviour toward one of the Horde founding fathers, won't be tolerated.

If Garrosh wanted obiedience he should've inspire it, and not treat people like crap and expect obedience. Somehow Drannosh knew that and he - just like Garrosh came from Draenor too. So you can't really use the argument "Oh poor Garry didn't know". He was terrible, Vol'Jin being honest told him that his plans won't work out, Garrosh took it as "talking back" and started to mock him, Vol'Jin told him what he really thinks about him. Garrosh snaps back at him and then Vol'Jin bites back.

Vol'Jin didn't deliberately come to Garrosh to throw threats at him, it was escalation of heated argument.

[Quaade]

I hear everyone giving Sylvanas sas, but come on they all suck

Thrall? Oh yeah, he let his people starve in a desert and chose the harshest place on Azeroth for his people to settle in. Why? Becaue he wanted his people to suffer for what the did during the war. Yeah never mind that the massacre wasnt even their fault. Ashenvale was packed with food and space, but he let his people suffer regardless. Then he appoints Garrosh and leaves, even though Garrosh begs him to reconsider and says hes not ready. Right after, Cairne and Voljin Turn on him. Great job.

Saurfang? He is a hypocrite. His Concept of honor is stupid. In a good war, its revealed that SAURFANG was the one who orchestrated the war of thorns. Alright, so hiring hundreads of assassins and poisoning the food supply of the enemy, butchering your way across all of ashenvale using lies and subterfuge and killing civilians unprovoked. Yeah no thats honorable, but helping his warchief from being killed is dishonorable. And what then? He betrays the entire horde. His reasoning is because of Sylvanas and Lordaeron, WHEN THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT KILLED ATLEAST AS MANY IN THE WAR OF THORNS

Baine? He fucking delievers the horde to the alliance YET AGAIN on a silver platter. He sent a piece of his own horn to the alliance, he collaborated with them instead of his own allies during the siege of Orgrimmar. Yeah people bring up Taurajo alot but come on it has legitemacy. Why did he even exile his people wanting revenge, are you kidding me? What kind of leader just says "No no, It was a legitimate target, just kill my people". There are dwarves wiping out entire tribes in the barrens, Balistas lined up at the great game, and he does nothing. Had it been Carine he would have marched from mulgore to dusthallow marsh untill every single alliance soldier was wiped out.

Lor'Themar?
"Were it not for the Horde, the remaining sin'dorei might have died out against the Scourge." NO. It was the forsaken that helped you. Remember the ghostlands and the tranquillen? You werent let into the horde until AFTER the forsaken has helped you with the remaining scourge
"Garrosh nearly severed the bond between us, but in the end it held strong." NO. You almost defected to the alliance and betrayed the horde.
Serioulsy Lor'themar just shut up

Voljin didnt get a chance to be terrible, but he ordered the unprovoked attack on Ashran, and he apologised to jaina about the purge of dalaran, agreeing that butchering the sunreavers was justified

Seriously they all suck. Gallywix is terrible too, but atleast he KNOWS he is terrible which makes him less back than the others. The horde is doomed and so is the lore

You forgot

Sylvanas: Utterly incompetent, Utterly unable to live up to her reputation of schemer and master manipulator. Starts a war because she projects that Anduin will, despite everything that's known about him.

The Horde: Yes, this is cheating. The Horde is flawed, their entire leadership structure is flawed and it started with Thrall. The Warchief has dictatorial power and can appoint their own successor without any input from the other faction leaders from the Horde. This creates a system where the individual factions have no power and either has to be loyal to their faction leader or their Warchief if they disagree and the faction leaders have no input over who is their über boss.

[Devilyaki]

Next leader will be the alliance lol Horde is dead, crazy dead lady killed it off.

[GetCrunk]

Next leader will be the alliance lol Horde is dead, crazy dead lady killed it off.

Hmmm can you be more specific are you talking about Sylvanas or Golden ?