Blizzard invalidating content once again

[Charge me Doctor]

Once i hit like 360+ i went into LFR once, then did a few M+0, for Azerite gear mostly and actually playing my character in a setting outside of WQ's, now that character just sits & waits for Emissaries each day.

Desire to raid on that character? next to none, why bother going into a raid if i can log in every once in a while and get equivalent loot.

It's funny to me, that you say that you are enjoying WoW like it's some sort of mobile game. Open a chest once a day and log off. Great investment of your subscription.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't recall getting ICC Heroic Loot just by tagging 4 different mobs within a single Northrend zone every once in a while.
You also can't prove me wrong, because you should know that's not how it was.

Do you remember farming for boes and ring rep tho? How braindead that was?

[Onikaroshi]

Do you remember farming for boes and ring rep tho? How braindead that was?

Trash would only get you like the first rep ring, trash stopped giving experience at a certain point so it was actually rather quick.

And BoEs, while good, were not heroic level because there was no such thing has heroic trash at that point in time. That didn't come about until Mythic IIRC.

[Charge me Doctor]

A bit more On the topic:

I honestly don't understand why is a change like this making such a fuss...

I started the tier with mostly undergeared players and some clearly not mythic material, we were slow to the point of only getting ahead of the curve the 3rd week of the raid. We are super casual at 5/9 Mythic atm.

Why does it matter to me if everyone get's 400 item level Azerites from WQ? It's not like Raiding was the most efficient way of gearing at this point anyways.

Might as well make 400 item level baseline from all world content, at least gearing alts would be even faster

Also where this implication that everyone is getting loot drops from their caches every day came from? Last time i've done emissary quests i was rewarded with bunch of artifact power or garrison resources. Raiding and M+ is still better way to gear your character (not to "raid-ready" state, but actually gear it past that point), and it'll be the same with this change. The only players who'll be greatly affected by this change are those, who log in to do their 4 world quests every day and don't do anything besides that. WoOoOhOoOo these people will get 395ilvl, at best in two weeks (granted that each day you get a new piece of gear you was missing), that's two extra raid lockouts and two M+ loot boxes on top of Emissary things for a dedicated player, who farms raid, how is that worse than "just doing WQs for emissary reward"?.

[Mokrath]

Crucible of Storms releasing, time to increase emissary rewards to 395/400.

Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?

Because you enjoy playing the game with your friends and guildmates and the gear is the means to progress through the raid in a reasonable time frame?

People having a chance at 395/400 gear 3 months later doesn't invalidate that at all. In fact it falls in line with how the gear acquisition in the game has been for most of it's existence. In TBC, WotLK, Cata and MoP you could get raid quality gear without raiding after enough time thanks to Badges or JP/VP. Now all that loot still exists but it's been moved to a slot machine style system instead of steadily working towards it.

You have to hope the Emissary rolls an equipment reward. You have to hope that cache rolls a slot you need and if it's azerite, the traits you need/want. I can't tell you how many items I've scrapped from Emissary rewards, but it's been a lot. Don't even get me started on the Tortollan Traders Stock from the Emissary. I've gotten the same unique-equipped ring 4 times on my Druid, in a row.

The game is in a bad place, and item level bloat is part of the problem. But this is just the modern "Diablo" style of how non-raiders progress their characters. We don't get to run our daily Heroic for badges or cap our VP for the week, instead we pull the lever and hope we don't get that 4th pair of gloves or the same crappy azerite shoulders that we've already scrapped 3 times.

It's going to take someone weeks or months of doing every Emissary that offers gear, after this change goes in to effect, to have a chance to catch-up to an item level that any Heroic raiders likely hit weeks ago. It's not like we get our existing gear magically upgraded when they make a chance like this.

[Lahlah]

Considering the fact that the game has had that form of gearing for more years then the current, no I am not wrong.

Limited gear means you're not getting gear raining from the sky, you have limited chances to get max level gear, ie, raids and dungeons with lockouts and capped currencies, like the game had entirely before M+ came in and the WQs and all the crap they've pulled in BfA.

Thankfully there's games out there that still adhere to a much better gearing spectrum but doesn't mean I'm going to stop fighting for wow to return to it, I've put 14 years into this game, not going to give up on it over 1 expansion of mediocre gearing and 1 expansion of absolute garbage gearing.

I pretty much agree with you and I've been a hardcore raider (U.S. top ten) from BC through MoP but that time is over. In the past it was definitely satisfying finally killing a tough boss but it was equally satisfying to finally get that piece of loot from a raid boss you've been wanting for awhile. I too won't completely quit WoW, but I'm just hoping the next xpac changes, or I won't log in as much, whatever.

[Charge me Doctor]

Trash would only get you like the first rep ring, trash stopped giving experience at a certain point so it was actually rather quick.

And BoEs, while good, were not heroic level because there was no such thing has heroic trash at that point in time. That didn't come about until Mythic IIRC.

You could farm exalted on trash, big ones were giving, like 80-something until nerf (big skellies), can't remember small ones, and can't confirm if they stopped giving rep at any point. You needed to kill, like 1k big skellies to get to exalted

[Onikaroshi]

You could farm exalted on trash, big ones were giving, like 80-something until nerf (big skellies), can't remember small ones, and can't confirm if they stopped giving rep at any point. You needed to kill, like 1k big skellies to get to exalted

Maybe it was after that they changed it, but still, barely anyone grinded trash to exalted and at the end of the day, if they put the time in they deserved it.

[Asaliah]

I am still wondering why we can't use LFR for mythic 0....

[help helper]

I am still wondering why we can't use LFR for mythic 0....

Because with 20 people it's more likely that you can complete the instance even if a healer and 4 dps are basically afk.

[Onikaroshi]

I am still wondering why we can't use LFR for mythic 0....

I've seen people almost wipe in heroic..... I don't even want to see them attempt Mythic anything...

[Doffen]

Funny thing is, that some people assume that by increasing ilvl of gear dropped for completing a daily quest it instantly boosts everyone to this ilvl. It's not like you are going to get 5 belts in a row, or "well, these perks are shit" head slot and such.

Indeed, it is not that easy. If anything back in the day you knew what you were buying. Wich brings us to the reason of RNG in current content. We get it from many sources, it has to be a downside with it. And that downside is; RNG. If I could decide I would have less sources and less RNG, but in the end this is the reason why we got this kind of a gearing system. It can't be only positive sides to it.

[kamuimac]

It invalidates the progression of Heroic raiding, making it essentially pointless. For you to get free upgrades the majority of players who raid - which is mostly going to be Heroic raiders - will immediately have their effort devalued. Their personal progression now becomes second fiddle to the progression of players who, truthfully, don't deserve it.

good. if people raid only for gear this means they are doing it wrong.

also its nice that they finally give content to 95% not 5%

they clearly finally found working formula how to keep casuals subbed

[Demolished]

good. if people raid only for gear this means they are doing it wrong.

also its nice that they finally give content to 95% not 5%

they clearly finally found working formula how to keep casuals subbed

They can have content without devaluing the effort and time other people put into their content. There is a reason why people can have a footrace and feel accomplished at any level, but we literally give medals for those that are better at it. Not sure why anyone is really arguing that the people that do harder stuff should get the same as those that don't.

[Charge me Doctor]

Indeed, it is not that easy. If anything back in the day you knew what you were buying. Wich brings us to the reason of RNG in current content. We get it from many sources, it has to be a downside with it. And that downside is; RNG. If I could decide I would have less sources and less RNG, but in the end this is the reason why we got this kind of a gearing system. It can't be only positive sides to it.

RNG is RNG anyways, i remember going through whole content of firelands on my enhancement shaman with 0 agi axes dropped until the last reset. To me it doesn't matter which kind of RNG screws me over, but on the other hand we all remember how "cool" and rewarding tokens and badges felt...

[kamuimac]

I pretty much agree with you and I've been a hardcore raider (U.S. top ten) from BC through MoP but that time is over. In the past it was definitely satisfying finally killing a tough boss but it was equally satisfying to finally get that piece of loot from a raid boss you've been wanting for awhile. I too won't completely quit WoW, but I'm just hoping the next xpac changes, or I won't log in as much, whatever.

good - the more burned out raiders will quit the better for game.

[Magical Mudcrab]

good. if people raid only for gear this means they are doing it wrong.

also its nice that they finally give content to 95% not 5%

they clearly finally found working formula how to keep casuals subbed

Gear is part of character progression and, whether obtained through raiding or M+, is a large time and gold investment. You're advocating that people who put time into the game should not be rewarded because "... they are doing it wrong", and that people with no time investment should have those rewards opened to them because casuals need to remain subbed even though it's obvious that it's not a viable strategy for player retention.

[kamuimac]

Gear is part of character progression and, whether obtained through raiding or M+, is a large time and gold investment. You're advocating that people who put time into the game should not be rewarded because "... they are doing it wrong", and that people with no time investment should have those rewards opened to them because casuals need to remain subbed even though it's obvious that it's not a viable strategy for player retention.

you have any proof to support that claim ?

no you dont - but blizzard clearly do if they follow this gearing model strickly now in BfA.

finally people dont have to do content then despise because its the only viable source of gear.

win win for blizzard.

and if entitled elitest toxic people will leave - even better resoults.

[Elias01]

you have any proof to support that claim ?

no you dont - but blizzard clearly do if they follow this gearing model strickly now in BfA.

finally people dont have to do content then despise because its the only viable source of gear.

win win for blizzard.

and if entitled elitest toxic people will leave - even better resoults.

Well i am casual player. I havent step foot into lfr or any dungeon above heroic and when i saw this news i cancel my sub till classic will come out. Sorry but i dont find it fun being rewarded for doing such trivial content. When i get new better piece of gear i want to be for defeating more challening content no becouse i killed 5 boars. I think you have no clue what actual casual players actualy want.

[shise]

I'll never understand this whiny argument. So after this change, the scrubs will have a 390-400 ilvl, and the elites will have a 410-420 ilvl.

This has always been the disparity between the scrubs and the elite since at least Wrath.

You do understand that, many of the "elite" are merely scrubs with time? and many "scrubs" would beat the "elite" upside down if they had the time to commit to 3 days a week raid.. which most people can not due to RL.


But back in topic, I also don´t understand what OP is talking about. If you raid Mythic, you have about 40K more HP and tones more damage than non mythic, regardless of what comes on the next patch as given away, it will barely be any better than previous mythic, and if it is, it doesn´t matter as new mythic will once again be ahead.

[kubaje]

good. if people raid only for gear this means they are doing it wrong.

also its nice that they finally give content to 95% not 5%

they clearly finally found working formula how to keep casuals subbed

Jesus fucking Christ. You're ignorance is through the roof.

This change doesn't hurt the 5%, it hurts the vast majority. I used to be part of the 1%, now I'm pretty much the definition of the casual player.

I have one main and 6 alts at 120. All of my alts sit at somewhere between 387 and 398, without having seen a real raid from inside. All they do is the weekly last wing of LFR for the mount, nothing else. I already only log in once a day, do the emissary and then stare at the character selection screen, being annoyed that there is nothing worth my time.

I won't try to find a heroic BoD pug for an hour, which then does 4 bosses and disbands, only for a chance of getting minor upgrades. I don't even consider doing normal because it rewards nothing that I need. So, what else is there for a casual player to do? Mount farming? Transmog farming? This only gets worse with the change and then the only option for many casual players is to quit.