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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    This. This is the issue that started changing my view of the modern left as well.
    You were never left if this is what swayed you. There is no positive to giving nazis a platform. Not all speech should be protected.

  2. #282
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    You were never left if this is what swayed you. There is no positive to giving nazis a platform. Not all speech should be protected.
    I’m not “left”; I’m closer to anarcho socialist.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Misuteri View Post
    They’ve been regulating speech and media since Gutenberg invented the printing press. It used to be as extreme as to forbidding certain groups to learn how to read.

    Same thing with radio and television. Ask any Eastern European what it meant to listen to the BBC overseas service or VOA during the Cold War. The DPRK despises South Korean broadcasts. Jamming signals still exist in the world.

    I’m surprised the internet has lasted almost 25 years without more nations doing what China does to it. Information is dangerous to totalitarians and to CNN’s viewership levels.
    I've mentioned this a while ago here, not BBC for us, but we listened to Europa Libera, and it had quite the crucial role in overthrowing communism in East EU. Our dictator even tried to assassinate/bomb the guys. Even as a kid I have learned to put value on free speech and the concept of freedom of expression from the West, as we didn't have any whatsoever, and our lives were in danger if we spoke out even mildly. For example, my mother was tortured by the secret police after my father escaped to the West for days. Things were that bad. To make it funny, I've seen at least 2 people here in these forums trying to tell me that it was a good time for my country, which... yeah. How nice it is to hear that after luckily making it out alive.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Give Sethrak Blizz View Post
    Free speech alternatives like Voat? It is funny that the only people complaining about free speach/less restricted are doing it because they want to say horribly racist stuff.
    What is wrong with that exactly? Is it simply because it effects you that it should be of a concern? I have seen it spread far beyond "racist stuff" as well... internet censorship grows like a weed spreading from one conquered corner to another.

  5. #285
    Seems "The control" has gained too much power.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    SNL made this skit about a Trump voter burning books when honestly I'd expect the left to be burning books and wouldn't doubt they have at Antifa rallies etc. Burning books seems like the exact thing the left would do today.
    It's not that simple. It never is. I think it's wrong to try and pin it on one side alone. Gotta keep it in context and be fair. Free speech is far more important than the left/right divide IMO. And those that touch power always seem to want to limit it, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Hiding parts of society has the opposite result than you want; namely giving power to the thing you push away.
    People in time will look back and think on the days when they were in control and all the ills they saw in the world could be hidden in the dark places of the world cut off from them... sadly they learned to late that night always comes eventually and the darkness will reclaim everything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    It's not that simple. It never is. I think it's wrong to try and pin it on one side alone. Gotta keep it in context and be fair. Free speech is far more important than the left/right divide IMO. And those that touch power always seem to want to limit it, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum.
    Left leaning swine, right leaning swine, both are fat and ready from slaughter from I see of politics these days. Sure the right tends to at least be more amusing but both are relics of a age gone by who haven't adapted to the modern world.

  8. #288
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    People in time will look back and think on the days when they were in control and all the ills they saw in the world could be hidden in the dark places of the world cut off from them... sadly they learned to late that night always comes eventually and the darkness will reclaim everything.
    Yep, and as they say, light is the great disinfectant. By hiding you just create more shadows, and add on more darkness.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  9. #289
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    You were never left if this is what swayed you. There is no positive to giving nazis a platform. Not all speech should be protected.
    There's no positive to giving communists a platform. Should their free speech rights be taken away, or is it only the people you agree with that should have free speech rights?

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    Yep, and as they say, light is the great disinfectant. By hiding you just create more shadows, and add on more darkness.
    I wonder at times if that is all this stems from. The fear of what happens when ideas are open to debate and things held as conventional truths are challenged. I can see a so many lies that I don't think we are really ready as a society to face.

    The concept of equality between different people, old lies that can't be true scientifically but are seen as sacred cows that can not be touched. I always wonder if its the fear of people being able to freely and openly question everything they believe that is one of the great spurs to this age of trying to muzzle one another, Its a romantic thought but I have a sinking suspicion it is more out of pretty desires to be seen as virtuous or simply not be challenged.

  11. #291
    Herald of the Titans Helryx's Avatar
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    Normies. Eternal September marked the start of the death of the "Wild West" internet, and the advent of the social media trio was the final nail in the coffin.
    Last edited by Helryx; 2019-04-23 at 07:38 PM.

  12. #292
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    An oppressed people become violent. If we suddenly made it illegal in the US to practice your favorite "protected" religion, they would lash out in violence. Guess they were just waiting for violence to become an option too?
    And there is no "oppression".

    That's where your claims go completely off the rails.

    You're free to be as racist and mean-spirited and shitty as you want to be. It's just that everyone else is free to respond to your conduct, by making their own choices about you.

    You are literally arguing against freedom of association and freedom of thought/expression.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And there is no "oppression".

    That's where your claims go completely off the rails.

    You're free to be as racist and mean-spirited and shitty as you want to be. It's just that everyone else is free to respond to your conduct, by making their own choices about you.

    You are literally arguing against freedom of association and freedom of thought/expression.
    This doesn't really make sense as a response to the quote you mentioned in this post though. People are not free to to respond to every groups conduct by making their own choices... that undermines the entire premise of hate crimes.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    There's no positive to giving communists a platform. Should their free speech rights be taken away, or is it only the people you agree with that should have free speech rights?
    Comparing communists to Nazis. Cool. Back in the basket with you, rofl.

    The right sure loves their Nazi hate speech being protected.

    In before "Communist governments have killed more people than Nazis" or some jazz.

    I'd explain at length why that statement is absurd, but I don't see the point tying to explain things to the right anymore.
    Last edited by Hinastorm; 2019-04-23 at 07:50 PM.

  15. #295
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    This doesn't really make sense as a response to the quote you mentioned in this post though. People are not free to to respond to every groups conduct by making their own choices... that undermines the entire premise of hate crimes.
    I can't even parse what you're trying to say, here.

    People are free to respond to the conduct of other groups, and to make their own choices. It's just that everyone else is also able to respond in kind, to them; that's where the bitching comes in from these people.

    Hate crimes aren't relevant to this at all, because they are crimes; speech that perpetrates a hate crime is, by definition, not protected speech, to begin with.

  16. #296
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Comparing communists to Nazis. Cool. Back in the basket with you, rofl.

    The right sure loves their Nazi hate speech being protected.
    As suspected. "Free speech for those I like, no rights for those I don't like".

  17. #297
    Herald of the Titans Helryx's Avatar
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    Free speech for me, not for thee.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Comparing communists to Nazis. Cool. Back in the basket with you, rofl.

    The right sure loves their Nazi hate speech being protected.

    In before "Communist governments have killed more people than Nazis" or some jazz.

    I'd explain at length why that statement is absurd, but I don't see the point tying to explain things to the right anymore.
    AKA "I probably can't"

  18. #298
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    I wonder at times if that is all this stems from. The fear of what happens when ideas are open to debate and things held as conventional truths are challenged. I can see a so many lies that I don't think we are really ready as a society to face.

    The concept of equality between different people, old lies that can't be true scientifically but are seen as sacred cows that can not be touched. I always wonder if its the fear of people being able to freely and openly question everything they believe that is one of the great spurs to this age of trying to muzzle one another, Its a romantic thought but I have a sinking suspicion it is more out of pretty desires to be seen as virtuous or simply not be challenged.
    It comes, usually, out of pain, fear, and pride.

    Having your worldview broken down is psychologically painful, you need to lose pride in yourself due to fear of if you turn out to be wrong on some issues.

    But we build up pride in this culture; pride for doing nothing.
    Last edited by Connal; 2019-04-23 at 07:56 PM.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  19. #299
    The Unstoppable Force breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Yay for sadism
    that's not what sadism is.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    that's not what sadism is.
    I'm not talking about sexual sadism lol.

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