It Will Be A Different Vanilla

[Lolsteak]

Some hardcore pserver people think clear time (speed runs) matter for some reason.

So you enjoy below slow?

They treat it as the m+ of classic.

And?

There wont be any big fansites caring for speed times either as there is no ingame way of getting the times so its all a big waste of effort tbh.

There's already quite a few videos on YouTube of speedruns, Who are you to say that they're wasting their own time?

[VladimirM]

Oh yeah, crushing blow was a big thing

[Aleksej89]

SHAMAN TANK HYPE!!!!!!!!!

No no, im just kidding, it will never work.

[Sorcereria]

Are some people CLEARLY claiming and stating that high end progression guilds in Vanila had not enough theorycraft, dedication, knowledge, resources how to min-max and current players have much better idea about it that you can suddenly make to work 'things' we skipped for various & many reasons? Then I ask you to reevaluate, really. You are making urself look fool.

[Gungnir]

Are some people CLEARLY claiming and stating that high end progression guilds in Vanila had not enough theorycraft, dedication, knowledge, resources how to min-max and current players have much better idea about it that you can suddenly make to work 'things' we skipped for various & many reasons? Then I ask you to reevaluate, really. You are making urself look fool.

They've had twice the amount of time to theorycraft and test things.
They're bound to have more knowledge about the game than people back then.

[anon5123]

Why is that doc comparing 2 things that should never be compared?

Because the delusional hybrid cultists have to resort to shit like that to make their precious "bear tanks" and "ret paladins" seem viable.

[RoKPaNda]

For your reference.

Oh so it's not a real thing, it's one of those counterfeit server things that won't translate to real servers. Cool.

[anon5123]

And... lack of decent defensive cooldowns, though this last part I'm not so sure of.

That's correct, they don't have any damage reduction cooldown, only frenzied regen which is useless in a raid setting.

Also, they can't use potions without dropping shapeshift form.

[lonely zergling]

So you enjoy below slow?



And?



There's already quite a few videos on YouTube of speedruns, Who are you to say that they're wasting their own time?

I was just explaining to that guy why some people do care about speed stuff after "progress". But these kind of guilds will be very rare in classic anyway. Its a waste of time imho but if they want to do it (all that time spend on your private repack ptrs, yikes), go for it.

[Sorcereria]

They've had twice the amount of time to theorycraft and test things.
They're bound to have more knowledge about the game than people back then.

FYI we had tools & brains even IN VANILA that even after those years you are UNLIKELY to find a hole in our theorycrafts, calculations etc.

What is different is people might know the content more with expansions having MC, Naxx in them and general mechanics didnt change, but not many have an idea how the content looked alike with vanila numbers, gear, talents and some mechanics were changed that made the fights MUCH harder due to people slight mishaps to whatever they have seen later. Yes the general encounter complexity, design changed, player skill cap increased over the years, but the top players in vanila wouldnt differ that much in terms of current top players.
I can proudly say to myself that since vanila till 2013 when I finished raiding I was a top 10 player worldwide for a class that was considered the hardest to pull the numbers.

FYI we even had calculated what is better, T3 chest or robe of the archmage or other setups for mage on patchwerk based on the fight lenght that would change as your gear progressed. I personally was working hard on theorycraft during MC times to discover pretty early that spelldmg items were BiS untill very late BWL/AQ items.

And anyone pulling their numbers from Private servers, n... please xD

[ZazuuPriest]

it will be a better vanilla for everyone except the 1% elitists who will willingly make at least their 40 man core miserable by subscribing to their vanilla must be played this way zealotry

[Freshouttajail]

Because the delusional hybrid cultists have to resort to shit like that to make their precious "bear tanks" and "ret paladins" seem viable.

"look guys, ret pallies to more dmg than an AFK naked rogue, it's viable, as evidenced by my google doc!"

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Its good to see there are some competitive minded players interested in Classic.
I worry that the general scene will be predominately casuals with the leveling focus being so attractive to people, but either way you are right to say Classic will be very different.

Original Classic was hard because people didn't have access to information or ways to improve other than their own small social circles.

The websites and guides available back then were very limited, and people weren't likely to know to go to them either way.

In the age of information, where people compile hundreds of hours of resources for free all open source, the game will effectively play considerably easier.
People will level faster, play their class better, and know more about things than expected of them all thanks to guides, things like discord, and the private server community work that came before.

The game basically got nerfed, and Blizzard didn't have to do anything other than let time pass.
I have a feeling they know this, and will use this as an experimental ground to see the level of success and failure in both products, despite one being known as "hard" and one being known as "easy."

[Niwes]

It is possible with players having a higher skill cap than back in the day... and with a greater understanding of the game... that specs once considered to be "useless" can be made into usable and fun specs.

i like it how some ppl think that classic players in past were complete idiots

let me tell you something: there is no such thing that you call „skill cap“. ppl in every time played at a maximum level. wether was classic something new back then, nor were gamers in 2005 „totally new to gaming“. gaming at max possible point was looong established back then. absurd high skill levels is i.e. a special ability by tiny psycho koreans since 1985

instead this is all horrible shit stuff from some guys that were 12 year old when classic was an actual game. but instead realizing that you had another point of view back then, and therefore its YOU, you think its the skill cap of players.

an example: do you really think some sports athlet in profi sport back in 1970 would do more bad than ppl today ? lol, no. the environment just further developed. the techniques. the whole sport itself. but if you put an athlet from back then into todays sports and train him with the same tools at hand, it will be the same successful athlet.

so, i have bad news for you: best players back in 2005 wow, and how and what they did, will not differ much from what ppl will do this christmas on classic servers.

and btw: most of this success in terms of classic wow is coming by heavy dedication instead skillz anyway. the challenge in classic to farm farm farm potions (hint for the kiddies: you need a lot of potions. A LOT.) and resistence, and raid raid raid for the lucky shot is even more profitable than your so called skill cap.

[Razzako]

it will be a better vanilla for everyone except the 1% elitists who will willingly make at least their 40 man core miserable by subscribing to their vanilla must be played this way zealotry

Listen if you wanna have fun with hybrids go ahead. No one is telling you not to. All that those "1% elitists" are simply saying is that you won't get an invite to their raids, that's it. Nobody wants to have their fun ruined either (do you really think those corpse runs are fun in Vanilla?) because one dude wants to play a prot paladin in AQ40 or whatever.

[Gungnir]

FYI we had tools & brains even IN VANILA that even after those years you are UNLIKELY to find a hole in our theorycrafts, calculations etc.

What is different is people might know the content more with expansions having MC, Naxx in them and general mechanics didnt change, but not many have an idea how the content looked alike with vanila numbers, gear, talents.

FYI we even had calculated what is better, T3 chest or robe of the archmage or other setups for mage on patchwerk based on the fight lenght that would change as your gear progressed. I personally was working hard on theorycraft to discover pretty early that spelldmg items were BiS untill very late BWL/AQ items.

And anyone pulling their numbers from Private servers, n... please xD

And yet there's still a lot of things that you missed.
It's a matter of simple math. You had around two years with the game that was completely new, they've had 7 years with the same game but the same old players.

You're effectively trying to argue against people with nearly 10 years experience of that system.

i like it how some ppl think that classic players in past were complete idiots

let me tell you something: there is no such thing that you call „skill cap“. ppl in every time played at a maximum level. wether was classic something new back then, nor were gamers in 2005 „totally new to gaming“. gaming at max possible point was looong established back then. absurd high skill levels is i.e. a special ability by tiny psycho koreans since 1985

instead this is all horrible shit stuff from some guys that were 12 year old when classic was an actual game. but instead realizing that you had another point of view back then, and therefore its YOU, you think its the skill cap of players.

an example: do you really think some sports athlet in profi sport back in 1970 would do more bad than ppl today ? lol, no. the environment just further developed. the techniques. the whole sport itself. but if you put an athlet from back then into todays sports and train him with the same tools at hand, it will be the same successful athlet.

so, i have bad news for you: best players back in 2005 wow, and how and what they did, will not differ much from what ppl will do this christmas on classic servers.

And yet, this one mage called Vurtne completely revolutionized mage gameplay in PvP because no one else was doing what he did.
Just that tells you a lot about the general skill level back in the day.
You even have videos of cutting edge guilds back then with players that spent their time clicking spells.

I mean shit, just look at Grim who was argued to be one of the better rogues back in the day, and compare him to literally any current day player.
With time comes experience and knowledge. People ALWAYS get better with time, that's a universal constant, that's basic human physiology.


To say that skill level peaked in 2005, in a brand new game, is facetious at best.
That's like saying Counter Strike skill level peaked in 2001 compared to 2011.

[potis]

This post again, one every month till Classic releases.

Do you wanna play Druid tank? Play druid tank, but:

1)Dont expect to be grouped with decent players, even the most terrible of the decent players aka what we call LFR hero, follow some form of meta and min-maxing but since the overall knowledge is low, they remain terrible at the game no matter what.

2)Dont expect the DPS to magically play worse than they can so you can feel that you are actually a tank.

3)Druids job in Vanilla is to innervate the priest and spam Healing Touch Rank 4? (Was it?, or higher?) and the occasional decurse.

The only place a Druid Tank is actually viable is Patchwerk Hateful Strike soaker, everywhere else, you are wasting time and should have had a warrior.

[Mihalik]

For your reference.

That's a hyper fringe build viable with a specific raid set up, specific gear level and specific encounters.

Would not be used in 5mans, would not be used in progression, would not be used by the average run of the mill guild etc. It's a gimmick, and it's not just a gimmick, but a gimmick that can horribly RNG backfire.

- - - Updated - - -

I am pretty sure back in the day each hand had a separate parry chance.

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Crushing_blow

People used a shield because it effectively removed the possibility of getting hit by a crushing blow and getting RNG insta gibbed. Nobody post WotLK really remembers what it was like to get hit for 100% of your HP on plate as an offtank in dungeons and raids because RNG LOL Crushing Blow.

[Niwes]

Listen if you wanna have fun with hybrids go ahead. No one is telling you not to. All that those "1% elitists" are simply saying is that you won't get an invite to their raids, that's it. Nobody wants to have their fun ruined either (do you really think those corpse runs are fun in Vanilla?) because one dude wants to play a prot paladin in AQ40 or whatever.

yeah, i am THAT hyped for all that kiddies that „totally know classic“ and tell you whats going on, when they realize the first time, that you have to run 5mins or so, to your dead body, after a wipe that will be soooo funny when they all start crying at the same time worldwide

[Sorcereria]

And yet there's still a lot of things that you missed.
It's a matter of simple math. You had around two years with the game that was completely new, they've had 7 years with the same game but the same old players.

You're effectively trying to argue against people with nearly 10 years experience of that system.

You are basicly saying that we were idiots, kids and had no clue about the game

Are you still trying to say that THE MATH, a simple 2+2=4 is not correct and you can make it a different numbers? Than I challange you. Prove it. We have done it before, in Vanila. Then in next expansions, and something that was a hell of a achievment - a working feral druid rotation sim working in real time in 2010(?).

It's such a shame community has no track or backup of what was on ElitistJerks and top raiding guilds.
Ill watch how the world burns when people who never really immersed in it finally goes online.