View Poll Results: Who would hate the horde most

Voters
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  • Humans

    17 12.78%
  • Worgen

    11 8.27%
  • Draenei

    22 16.54%
  • Night Elves

    56 42.11%
  • High Elves

    2 1.50%
  • None or Other or Cant Decide

    25 18.80%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    they left cause of how little the alliance seemed to care about his death. Note that the alliance actually would have agreed with his actions, but the timing was terrible as other issues ranked more important than a few ships slipping off into the unknown. Fact remains that he was still Alliance when performing his deeds.





    He only had the ruler of an allied nation locked up in another nation's jail and not even secretly at that. So he HAD some support and recognition outside his immediate forces and a dwarven brigade.
    Why the hell would the Alliance have agreed with his actions when Gilneas left precisely because Greymane didn't want to pay for the camps and would rather exterminate the entire race, contrarily to the wishes of everyone else? That's a (citation needed) moment to me. He was still Alliance but acting on his own, and nobody in the Horde seems to blame Stormwind or whatever other Alliance kingdom for his acts given that at the time Kul Tiras was already heavily isolated.

    The Dalaran point I'll grant but seems a plot hole to me as later lore reveals that elves are also influential in Dalaran which also isn't the ruins depicted in WC3. I wouldn't even be surprised if Reforged changes this a bit.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Humans:
    - Stormwind Kingdom was routed in their 1st war by orcs,
    - U̶n̶d̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶n̶i̶h̶i̶l̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶L̶o̶r̶d̶a̶e̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶g̶d̶o̶m̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶3̶r̶d̶ ̶w̶a̶r̶
    - Horde destroyed Kingdom of Theramore

    Worgen:
    - Undead and Forsaken destroyed Gilneas

    Draenei:
    - Orcs genocide on route to invading Azeroth

    Night Elves
    - Invasion during Cata by Garrosh horde
    - Genocide by Forsaken led horde

    High Elves:
    - Horde invasion in 2nd war
    - S̶l̶a̶u̶g̶h̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶U̶n̶d̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶3̶r̶d̶ ̶w̶a̶r̶


    Observations:
    - Draenei were able to make a peace with orcs even fight alongside them a few times when it was realised the Legion was manipulating them
    - Draenei were able to work with Blood elves when the Scryers surrendered voluntarily and asked to join them, later they fo armed the shattered offensive even though the blood elves were on the horde and had been fighting them.
    - Blood elves were able to join the horde and forsaken despite past aggressions.
    - Humans have fought alongside the horde for major threats since Wc3, despite being bitter enemies.

    If You Discovered
    iSylvanas' appointment and war effort was manipulated by Queen Azshara and she is the one truly responsible for Teldrassil and the whole BFA war

    • Would you be willing to give Sylvanas a chance to prove her mettle?
    • Would you accept the night elves able to put aside their anger at the horde for Teldrassil to take down Azshara and N'Zoth?

    If it turns out that Sylvanas discovers she was manipulated and ends up being the key reason we are eventually able to take out N'zoth and she ends up doing something greatly heroic by springing a trap that would have killed Tyrande and the rest of the night elf forces who were in a strategic position to end the threat and her sacrifice is what allows Tyrande to finish Azshara/N'zoth and save a trapped Anduin.

    She had lost half the horde to Saurfang /thrall, but her half was also engaging N'zoths/Azshara forces when she learnt of her manipulation Sylvanas didnt die whe her self sacrifice saved the kaldorei, Tyrande, alliance and horde forces and Anduin, but it changed her, she emerges, laying down the warchief mantle, allowing her half of the horde to join the Saurfang/Thrall horde, she also steps down as leader of the forsaken allowing Calia Menethil to lead them

    • Would you exonerate Sylvanas as a horde or alliance player and be proud of her?
    • Would you accept a horde and alliance peace as possible?


    -Do you think the night elves can put their anger at the war of thorns aside and work with the horde?
    -Do you think friendships between horde and alliance races can still happen?
    Example:
    • Night elves with Nightborne and HighmountainTauren neither participated in the war of throns
    • Blood elves and Draenei, especially Lightforged
    • Humans and forsaken led by Calia
    Don't care how you try to bend it, but the stricken text was not perpetrated by the Horde by any stretch of the imagination.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

    To the High Elfers out there... If it doesn't workout how you believe/want don't try to paint Blizzard as the bad guy for your own hype building.

  3. #63
    Bloodsail Admiral Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Knight View Post
    This was Scourge Undead, the Forsaken as a race or faction did not exist at this point.
    The beginning of Sylvanas's rain was heralded by the betrayal and slaughter of Alliance forces at the capitol city.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    The beginning of Sylvanas's rain was heralded by the betrayal and slaughter of Alliance forces at the capitol city.
    At which point she was not yet Horde. They weren't even Forsaken, they were effectively Scourge rebels.

  5. #65
    Bloodsail Admiral Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Knight View Post
    At which point she was not yet Horde. They weren't even Forsaken, they were effectively Scourge rebels.
    Not horde yet indeed, but just because they hadn't taken on the name of forsaken yet doesn't mean they they weren't one and the same people. The forsaken where originally the undead who where freed from the LK because of his waning power. Sylvanas lead them then and she still leads them to this day, by allowing her and her people into the Horde, the Horde is in affect okaying their previous actions as acceptable.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    Not horde yet indeed, but just because they hadn't taken on the name of forsaken yet doesn't mean they they weren't one and the same people. The forsaken where originally the undead who where freed from the LK because of his waning power. Sylvanas lead them then and she still leads them to this day, by allowing her and her people into the Horde, the Horde is in affect okaying their previous actions as acceptable.
    One could play devil's advocate and ask how much the Horde leadership knew about what exactly went on. Given that the Horde had no presence in the region (the few surviving Blood Elves were still picking up the pieces, and in any case the BEs didn't join the Horde until after the Forsaken, so it's not like they would have passed any information to Thrall at the time) chances are their intelligence on the Undead civil war was limited, especially considering they were busy trying to found their own homeland on Kalimdor. Sylvanas' rebellion would at the time have been barely a blip on their radar, if it was even noticed as it was happening at all. So how much they even knew is a legitimate question.

    Also, given the Orcs own history with acts committed due to their enslavement by the Legion, and their own history with Alliance leadership, and the tactical advantage of an outpost in Lordaeron, Sylvanas killing some Alliance soldiers is probably not a deal-breaker.

  7. #67
    By sheer numbers, humans. None of the other races lost as many, mostly because none other was as numerous.

    By percentage, draenei. Despite the number of npc's and pc's you see, the Draenei should number in the few hundred left.

    Both had most damage done by the original horde.
    I'm an altoholic since 2005.

  8. #68
    Elemental Lord Syegfryed's Avatar
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    This is rly a useless topic, but hey draeneis are first by far, there is a road of then to proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Well Orcs killed night elfs and their demi god because they wanted to harvest their trees, even go demon blood infused again.
    Misstyped 2 should be three of course.
    you mean orcs killed night elves because night elves start to killing orcs right

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    This is rly a useless topic, but hey draeneis are first by far, there is a road of then to proof.



    you mean orcs killed night elves because night elves start to killing orcs right
    They saw a bunch of green skinned monstrosities (who probably still reeked of demon blood) cutting down their forest.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The Alliance at large did not aim to destroy the Orcs (they were in fact almost unreasonably lenient in allowing the infighting about the internment camps to make the Alliance collapse in turn instead of getting rid of what they could only see as genocidal monsters), Daelin was, Blood Elves was literally just Garithos and his forces, and Trolls was some rando Kul Tirans we've never heard about since. As a body the humans can only be maybe held responsible for trying to kill the (playable) Goblins, and even then I doubt they knew the entire Bilgewater Cartel was on that one ship and it's not like mankind ever pursued war on the goblins as any kind of objective considering most of them are neutral and one is an SI:7 spy.

    As for the Wrathgate, ask Afriasabi.
    @mickybrighteyes pretty much covered almost all here as it is, so I'll only mention the Goblins. The Alliance didn't attack just the Bilgewater in Cata. They attacked the Steamwheedle as well. So yes, they did pursue war on the Goblins and they didn't give a shit about their neutrality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Erm, Kul Tiras left the Alliance after Dealin's campaigns precisely because the rest of the members did not endorse his actions, while Gilneas left because they didn't want to fund the camps. What Kul Tiras did was on their own ass (and I'd agree that the Horde has more reasons to hate the Kul Tirans than any other group in the Alliance). The entire point of the Alliance story in BFA is getting KT back in.
    The Alliance didn't endorse pursuing vengeance for Daelin. That's why Kul Tiras left. And even that aside, the actions in question happened earlier so no, it's not on their own ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  11. #71
    Stood in the Fire
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    It would be interesting to see an attempted peace after all this passes. The Worgen would definitely seek retribution. The night elves have gone bloodthirsty and are out for blood. But I'm most interested in the lightforged draenei. While they may be new, hearing of what their people have been through at the hands of the horde, then seeing their aggression first hand very soon after might make them a lot less forgiving than regular draenei.
    "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" ~Einstein
    Wish more people would take that to heart.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    They saw a bunch of green skinned monstrosities (who probably still reeked of demon blood) cutting down their forest.
    This is the bit that most people gloss over when describing the Horde’s first umm... “interaction” with the Night elves, the Orcs were (Not quite sure how, smell? Spiritual something?) still noticeably tainted by the demon blood, that’s why the Night elves attacked right away, when unknown invaders smelling of demon come into their sacred forests purely to clear-cut them, what do people expect elves to do?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by dekal View Post
    It would be interesting to see an attempted peace after all this passes. The Worgen would definitely seek retribution. The night elves have gone bloodthirsty and are out for blood. But I'm most interested in the lightforged draenei. While they may be new, hearing of what their people have been through at the hands of the horde, then seeing their aggression first hand very soon after might make them a lot less forgiving than regular draenei.
    I would buy that if they wrote it that way.

    I mean it doesn't have to go that way, but if it did, it would be believable. Sadly while something are, other thigns they don't are, and I think they could be better at making them so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    This is the bit that most people gloss over when describing the Horde’s first umm... “interaction” with the Night elves, the Orcs were (Not quite sure how, smell? Spiritual something?) still noticeably tainted by the demon blood, that’s why the Night elves attacked right away, when unknown invaders smelling of demon come into their sacred forests purely to clear-cut them, what do people expect elves to do?
    It wasn't the only reason, though, and I think it was the lesser reason to be frank. The part most people miss (because blizzard doesn't state motivations outright, they set up the scene, give the lore on the history and what has happened, then you follow the action), unlike a novel you don't get to hear motivations.

    The night elves were guarding the Well of Eternity from ANYONE discovering it or discovering arcane magic - not cos they hate it, but because they believed that well is the only way the Demons can come, also the reason the demons want to invade the planet, and that invasion would end the world. They'd rather kill a hapless adventuerer, than allow them to cross into Ashenvale or sense the magic there.

    So when both humans and orcs start coming, they kill both - according to the lore, Tauren and other denizens of Kalimdor knew not to cross that border. It wasn't just night elves that were defending that tree and the Well, it was demi-gods and DRAGONS.

    The orcs would have had the taint of demonic corruption making it worse for them, but nothing like Grom's party who kill Cenarius a bit later after drinking demon blood anew after well over 40years. Now they would have REEEKED to the night elves and Cenarius.

  14. #74
    Elemental Lord Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    They saw a bunch of green skinned monstrosities (who probably still reeked of demon blood) cutting down their forest.
    killing for free because racism, assumptions and a bunch of trees

  15. #75
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    I firmly believe the NE's have been sacrificed more on the altar of the For the Horde jackass narrative. For too many reasons to go into now but for the final questions.

    Would I accept NE's being able to put aside Teldrassil to work with the Horde? Or give up in their revenge. Heck even ever see Sylvanas as forgivable if it is proved she literally had a N'zoth tentacle crammed up her ass the whole time it's all a great big No. Bliz went far too overboard with the whole WoT event and then spamming their pages with Sylvanas and Teldrassil memes for months even to the current day. I've lost all objectivity towards the lore and with it a large part of my enjoyment with it. So bleh, just no.

  16. #76
    Of everything the -current- Horde has done, that is, the one formed by Thrall, after the interment camps, where claimed Durator, an area that nobody in the Alliance would want and would keep him out of their way and them out of his way would be the Night Elves.

    The Draenei and the current Horde had no real interaction until the Exodar came to Azeroth. They did with the old Horde, the one led by Ogrim Doomhammer/Blackhand/Gul'dan while on Draenor. When the Second War ended, that Horde ceased to exist as a whole faction. Yes, members of it came to be part of Thrall's Horde, but it was a different faction, largely being controlled by Sargeras via Gul'dan/blood etc. Other races have suffered, surely.

    Humans and Worgens directly. But even then, it can be argued that Theramore was an act that done by the Warchief, that was not backed or even known about by the rest of the Horde leadership. and was the start of the leaders working to topple Garrosh.

    But things mentioned in this thread, such as the sacking of Stormwind, the destruction of Azeroth when coming through the portals, that was old Horde and again, under the influence of The Legion. And certainly there are living orcs who remember it and are many are ashamed of all it. Varok Saurfang and Etrigg, for example. But again, different faction at the time.

    So I guess my point, since the start of Thrall's Horde, it seems to me the Night Elves have paid the heaviest price with the loss of their home and many of their people. Humans probably second to that, Gilneas possibly third. The Pandaria paid dearly as well, but since they're also half Horde, it becomes harder to say.

  17. #77
    Epic! Tabrotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Knight View Post
    As stated in-game, one of his followers says this is directly against Thrall's orders. At this point, Grom is breaking from the Horde and going rogue. He is no longer operating under the direction of the Horde and his actions are no longer condoned by the Horde. I am reading the question as actions by directed by Horde leadership. As soon as Grom makes the choice, this no longer applies.
    Oh how utter perfect, that most of the bad things done to the alliance are from "splinter forces" no longer belonging to the horde, EVERY FUCKING SINGLE TIME.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Oh how utter perfect, that most of the bad things done to the alliance are from "splinter forces" no longer belonging to the horde, EVERY FUCKING SINGLE TIME.
    Well, yeah statistically speaking going by the numbers 'most' of the bad things that have happened to the Alliance have not been from the Horde, especially if you take only when the Horde was operating under its own authority and not as a tool/pawn of the Legion.

    I mean, I'm not going to argue that the Horde has never done anything bad and isn't being painted as clearly the more villainous side in BfA. The Horde bombed a druid training school in Stonetalon, bombed Theramore, burned Teldrassil, blighted Gilneas (though Gilneas wasn't technically Alliance at this point), precipitated Wrathgate, and so on. All of these are SINGLE FUCKING TIMES when the Horde is clearly the aggressor committing atrocities. But if you're tallying events and especially if you're going for scale the Legion and all the other threats faced over the course of the games have a much higher 'score' against the Alliance than the Horde does.

    Also remember the specific instance being discussed here was both a rogue commander directly disobeying Thrall's orders but was also NOT done against the Alliance. At that time the Sentinels were an independent entity in no way affiliated with the Alliance. But this also routes back to my reading of the OPs question where I'm taking it as the Horde (and Alliance) as a political entity, as in on Horde authority.

  19. #79
    Elemental Lord Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    This is the bit that most people gloss over when describing the Horde’s first umm... “interaction” with the Night elves, the Orcs were (Not quite sure how, smell? Spiritual something?) still noticeably tainted by the demon blood, that’s why the Night elves attacked right away, when unknown invaders smelling of demon come into their sacred forests purely to clear-cut them, what do people expect elves to do?
    night elves can't rly smell that, they didn't kill thn because of the "demon blood smell"

    they literally said the reasons in the campaign "these creatures are cutting trees, they have no respect for life, lets kill then" talking about hypocrisy

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    night elves can't rly smell that, they didn't kill thn because of the "demon blood smell"

    they literally said the reasons in the campaign "these creatures are cutting trees, they have no respect for life, lets kill then" talking about hypocrisy
    Ah, ok, it has been a (long) while since i played through “Warcraft III”, so the Night elves were “merely” defending their lands from invaders, how dare they! /sarcasm

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