Incels, and what social isolation does to the mind

[Qnubi]

Social isolation or is it really opposite sex isolation? Because the latter is meaningless to the mind. Social interaction is everything you need to stay healthy, sex is not.

[Mormolyce]

And then accuse them of rape. It kinda mimics the mantis mating rituals.

Imagine believing that internet nonsense represents reality.

I guess that's on topic when discussing incels though.

[randomnamegenerator16]

That's not only social isolation, but also victim complex. Which is not surprising, apparently it's a hot thing to be victim of something in the west.

[Verdugo]

Imagine believing that internet nonsense represents reality.

I guess that's on topic when discussing incels though.

We can also deny that it doesnt happen.

[Machismo]

The issue is that there became an incel community, and it's not just a single, lonely dude. That's where we have to make sure we are talking about the same people. There's plenty of dudes who cannot get laid, and who are socially awkward/inept. Hell, I think that describes half of all teenage guys. When people refer to incels, I think most are talking about the growing group of "nice guys" who want to blame women for not sleeping with them. I wasn't getting laid in high school, and girls found me quite awkward, but I sure wasn't blaming them.

Fast forward 20 years:

Now we see large internet communities that want to blame women for not wanting the product that a guy is selling. One of female Marines I served with imparted some great wisdom on me. "Nice guys don't finish last, boring guys do." It was one of the most brilliant, and simple lessons I ever learned. If you are a genuinely fun person who does interesting things, and has interesting things to say, people will gravitate towards you. Incels are not victims.

[Sciborg]

I had social anxiety for 15 years that was bad enough for me to leave school at 13, abandon all of my friends and not go out for months at a time. I never became an incel. There has to be something else in the personality for that and that personality aspect is something that I don't pity or want to help.

[Dastreus]

Eventually, you grow cold and indifferent to it all, then stop giving a shit. At first it's "women only want jerks goddammit" then you realize "does that defacto mean I expect sex for being nice? That's kinda douchey." Then, you run out of ideas when you realize you got nothing to attract relationships with, since really, "being nice" isn't gonna do it, as that's just "being a decent fucking person". Years pass on. Still single. At some point, you stopped putting stock into that fact. It's not liberating, but not sad like you'd expect, it just is. It's as much fact as saying the Sun is hot. You get over the anger and envy.

[Mormolyce]

Now we see large internet communities that want to blame women for not wanting the product that a guy is selling. One of female Marines I served with imparted some great wisdom on me. "Nice guys don't finish last, boring guys do." It was one of the most brilliant, and simple lessons I ever learned. If you are a genuinely fun person who does interesting things, and has interesting things to say, people will gravitate towards you. Incels are not victims.

It's funny when one of them gets arrested or commits a mass shooting or something and photos come out - they look like average people. Some of them are fairly attractive in fact. But they're absolutely convinced they're unable to have sex.

It's basically a psychosis.

Also self-reinforcing: the more they wallow in self-pity, the worse their personality gets. And their personality is the main problem in the first place. These incel forums exist to wallow together and reinforce their negative mental state. It's repulsive.

[unbound]

The main issue that the OP is missing is how the general feeling that "incels" have get exacerbated by scam artists such as Ben Shapiro. They are interested in such groups (which includes MRAs, anti-immigrants, anti-LGBQTI) to stoke the fires of misogyny and hatred, and bend them to their own will to gain popularity (and, thus, some degree of power).

It took me years to get someone out of the MRA BS culture (when gamer gate fired up) because of the various scam artists that would constantly barrage him with frequent (but very poor) arguments. He would likely have described himself as an incel during that time. Fortunately, after knocking down dozens of stupid arguments from the MRA/Incel/misogynistic leaders, he finally came back to reality and, wouldn't you know it, found a steady girlfriend for a couple of years...that didn't work out, but he moved on to an even better relationship.

If those scam artists hadn't been there pushing the whole time, what took me years to accomplish would have almost certainly been a month or two instead.

[Machismo]

It's funny when one of them gets arrested or commits a mass shooting or something and photos come out - they look like average people. Some of them are fairly attractive in fact. But they're absolutely convinced they're unable to have sex.

It's basically a psychosis.

I don't necessarily think it's a psychosis, merely a victim complex. People don't want to be responsible for their position in life. I was a boring teenager, and girls were not into me. I had lots of friends, but I was always on the edge, watching everyone else live more-exciting lives. That all changed right after high school. In high school, I was in sports, and did plenty of extra-curricicular activities, but I was terrified of talking to girls. When I first got into college, I picked up different hobbies. I got into street racing, still did sports, and also started more outdoor activities like skydiving, hiking, and even drinking/partying. In high school, I was always the sober one, not so much by the end of college. After college, I joined the Marines, and continued to do interesting things.

Most incels are average dudes. They just happen to be average dudes who want to blame others for not wanting to be around them. Of course, the flip side of that is that most popular guys are also average dudes... who just happen to be more interesting.

[Dervrak]

Hmm, must be behind the time, never realized there was even such a movement....

I have a cousin who sort of fits the "incel" label though, unlike those mentioned on here, he was actually pretty popular in High School and didn't have any trouble getting dates. However, around 17 he fell head over heels for a girl, after a year they got engaged and then on the eve of the wedding there was huge breakup, he found out she had been cheating on him with his best friend for quite a while. Real nasty stuff. Well something seemed to snap inside of him, he changed and became bitter and withdrawn and has never truly gotten over it.


Now he is in his late 40's, has NEVER dated since the breakup, which happened almost 30 years ago at this point. He has a good career, six figure salary, nice house and car. Would be able to get a women in a second....if he didn't totally despise them. As the years go by his hatred for women seems to only increase. Every conversation anymore devolves into a rant about women are destroying the country, every women is just a "gold digger" out to steal everything a man earns, how useless they are in the workplace, and how none of them can be trusted. And don't get me started when it 2016 it looked like Hillary might be the next President, lets just see the "C" word was dropped very liberally every time her name got mentioned around him....

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I don't know how that's a thing. It is stupidly rare that I see a woman that I wouldn't smash. And why don't the *cels just hookup?

Well, I think that's the problem. The people I know that would fit the incel profile don't just want any "women" they want a perfect 10 (in fact they think they are entitled to one) and get angry and depressed when they can't get one. That was the probably the greatest lesson I ever learned (and thankfully learned early). I spent my early teen years with crushes on perfect 10's, (the cheerleaders and the like). I was small for my age, not athletic, not from a particularly wealthy family. So my chance of getting a perfect 10 to even give me the time of day was somewhere to the southside of slim and none. Then somewhere around age 15 it hit me, "Huh, there sure are a lot of perfectly fine girls sitting home alone on Friday night, they might not be a 10 but even a 5 or 6 ain't too bad." In a matter of months I went from never even having kissed a girl to losing my virginity. I was never without a girlfriend for the remainder of my teen years. And I also learned that once I gained some confidence and skill in relationships I did, a couple times, get a date with a girl that was pretty darn close to a 10. (but you also learn the perfect 10's are really no better than the 5 or 6's....in fact many of those 5/6's can be pretty freaky....)

[Theodarzna]

There was an interesting documentary on this:

[...]

It’s mostly lonely, socially awkward, mentally ill men, who don’t have a direction in life, that get possessed by the nihilistic Zeitgeist of the current culture in the West, and take out their anger and frustration on society.

Women are just their foil because sex, relationships, children, etc, give men meaning, and are a huge biological drive that they can not be a part of, and there is nothing to fill that meaning gap.

This story we tell ourselves has to be abandoned, it has failed: “A man can believe the universe is blind and life aimless and yet behave as nobly and as cheerfully as any saint.”

I'd say a man CAN do that, but why should he? More over why would the advice be trusted and not viewed as anything other than society wanting self-sacrifice for essentially nothing.

[Independent voter]

I have Aspergers, which is a social hinderance in the way that I don't read body language and social cues anywhere near as good as neurotypicals, aka "normal people".

Aspergers == autism these days.

I have it too and I agree with you. Much of the human brain is devoted to social interaction and autistic people have trouble accessing that part of the brain, some more than others.

If we got mental health professionals to look at these incels, I'm sure most if not all of them would be on the autistic spectrum.

With the right mental health professionals and a lot of work, autistic people can lead more or less normal lives, especially if the training starts when they are very young.

[Theodarzna]

Borrowing from another thread. Incels are largely a male thing, and obviously, something bad and dark happens since it seems to produce a few mass shooters. Female Incels almost don't exist and where they do it is either hidious levels of ugliness, sometimes self inflicted ugliness.

There is no female Elliot Rogers because even if we totally inflict ugliness on ourselves, even if we are the source of our own bad relationships, even if it's totally our own damn fault, there exists an entire cultural force to still call us sexy goddesses.

You can beat your husband, you can abort every baby you've ever made, you can cheat, you can eat a cake every day and gain three hundred pounds, believe me, a whole movement exists to still tell me I'm great.

Elliot Rogers has none of that, every fuck up is on him and personal failure of his. Even fuck ups that aren't his fault. One of the downsides of modernity is that notion of everything being one's own fault. Curious that for women we have an entire social movement with practicle state and corporate world endorsement to basically tell us nothing is our own fault. Incels, the male ones, are in a dark place because nobody gives a fuck about them, and nobody ever will. They are beyond worthless and they know it. If they had been born with a vagina there would be a whole social and political movement to give them succor, even if they did it to themselves, there would be prestigious academic papers and cultural movements there to tell them their shit doesn't stink. But they are men, so they are the ultimate loser. Nobody cares about mens feelings, and nobody ever will.

Male Incels go to a dark place of social isolation because there is zero social support for them, and moreover, there never will be.

[ellieg]

Incels are misunderstood imo. Ya a few hate women but I dont believe the majority do. They just dont understand women because they have limited experience and interactions with them. These ppl never learned how to socialize and most have crippling anxiety. They are usually younger adult males who have a lot of hormones, and live in a world where everything is sexualized. They are frustrated that sex is everywhere but they cant get any. This leads them to blame society, blame women, or blame some random attribute abt them for the reason they cant get laid. I'm not saying to trust em, but blindly hating them only reinforces their ideas abt women/society.

[Kathandira]

I find the incel community fascinating, because it's interesting to see what a lack of human response, and total social isolation does to the mind.

One false claim I often see is "they can't find a girlfriend because they are hateful misogynists". However, I don't believe that it's that simple, and I'll bring in some personal experiences.

The theory that it's SOLELY because of their hateful personality is based around the theory that they started out hateful. That they've "always been like that". The truth is that it's far from often the case. It's gradual social isolation.

I could've easily have become an incel. Want to know why?

I have Aspergers, which is a social hinderance in the way that I don't read body language and social cues anywhere near as good as neurotypicals, aka "normal people".

In elementary school, when I was between 13-15 (so 7th, up to 9th grade), I was bullied, because I was special and shy.
I had one friend, but the fact of the matter was that most boys bullied me relentlessly, girls looked disgusted when I wanted to initiate some kind of conversation with them and worst of all, I loved to chat online, so I was trying to hit on girls that way, people straight up told me I look like a sack of shit (luckily I got better in the looks department, from like a 2 to a 6, so nowadays I'm average).
The absolute worst thing a girl did to me was when we had dance practice in P.E, and the teacher assigned pairs. The girl I was assigned looked like she was about to throw up, talked to her friend and they excused themselves to the bathroom while laughing, never to return. I felt absolutely devastated.

I was so sad, and felt isolated from my peers. I saw them have big friend circles, make out with girls and I wondered why I couldn't get the same.
I wasn't hating on people, but I started to play WoW and isolate myself even more in high school, and I started to change my emotional state from plain "I'm sad" to somewhat bitter. Still not hateful, but it was more like "I'm useless, I'm ugly, people are so superstitous" etc.

Luckily, what DID pull me out of it was meeting a new friend. he was by no means a social king, but he still had a good enough social life he invited me to become a part of. Suddenly, I wasn't rotting away in my room, but instead I started to hang out on barbeque nights by the coast, going to pubs, actually get some positive responses from girls (I guess this is where my looks started to improve) and I finally lost my virginity at around 20-21.

My life is fine nowadays. I have enough friends, and I've had a few relationships and one night stands.

The point is, anyway, that I managed to sort out my life because one person literally saved me. If he didn't appear, I may just as well have become an incel and started to spew shit on incels.co I didn't start hateful, but total, social isolation DOES do toxic things to your mind, and unless someone saves you from it, things can take a turn for the worst and you dig yourself into a hole you yourself can't get out of without help.

I don't think incels deserve as much hate as they get right now, because more often than not there is an extremely sad story of bullying and social isolation of a person who didn't start hateful but who turned to the dark side, because years of social torment finally did it's toll.

Incels don't need to be vilified, they need all the help and sympathy they can get. But it's easy to be hateful, because people haven't been as balls-deep isolated and shunned socially, for as long as they have, so they simply don't understand, and what people don't understand they fear, and what people fear they hate. They need mental care, not to be shunned further.

What you are describing is still not “Involuntary”. As you said, someone showed you a better life. It was there the whole time, you just needed someone to open your eyes.

The only folks I can agree are Involuntary are those who cannot have sexual relations due to being disabled or afflicted in such a way that sex is simply not possible.

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I'm conflicted. I regularly visit their forums and while it doesn't bother me personally I am quite surprised with some of the things that are going on in there.
I don't think the hate they receive is unjust with the way they view men and women. Especially the women they want and the men they want to be. It all seems to backwards to me.

The way they tear each other down is also weird to see. Advising others that the only way out is to "Rope" I'm sad whatever it was that got them there,l but their view on life, men and women and themselves is just mind boggling.

Now femcels is becoming more or a thing too and while some are similar to incels, they still behave so vastly differently than the incels do.

“femcile”? Incel isn’t gender specific. No need for a feminine version of the term.

[Nixl]

is incel the n-word for loners?

[conceptKitty]

“femcile”? Incel isn’t gender specific. No need for a feminine version of the term.

I assume you're telling me this because you think I came up with it?

[Rozz]

I don't understand incels because hookers exist.

They don't like women who would take or accept any money, so that's impossible. They even have a term for it, but keep in mind that the girls they like also have to be 'pure'. Incels on their forums always cry about 'ruined whores' and that they can't find a reliable woman. Many legit think if a woman isn't a virgin, her v***** is wrecked like 'roast beef'.

I was curious one day and went on several of their reddit pages. It was one of the most terrifying and hilarious things I've ever seen.

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“femcile”? Incel isn’t gender specific. No need for a feminine version of the term.

No it's a term already, they even have race specific ones. Ex: Curry-cel for Indian men. Yeah that sounds racist, but they made the term up themselves.

[Kathandira]

I assume you're telling me this because you think I came up with it?

Just dropping the stone in the pond and letting the ripples work their way across.