[UK] General politics

[LeGin Tufnel]

Seems a nice place to have the odd debate that falls outside the Brexit megathread.

To start:

Gavin Williamson (Defence Secretary) has been sacked for leaking information from the National Security Council meeting re. allowing Huawei limited access to help build the UK's new 5G network.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48126974

Williamson had blamed civil servants for the leak.

Now, prosecute him, please.

[Skroe]

If the UK allows Huawei to build 5G, the UK should be kicked out of FIVEEYES.

It's as simple as that. Huawei is an arm of Chinese intelligence. If the UK does this, the UK loses access to US intelligence.

For fucks sake, we don't even allow Lenovos into this building I'm working in. Are people really that out of their minds to lay down to China?

[Dizzeeyooo]

BREAKING: Gavin Williamson to shut up and go away.

Huawei the lad.

God bless twitter

[LeGin Tufnel]

"Dear Gavin,
Thank you for your time this evening. We discussed the investigation into the unauthorised disclosure of information from the National Security Council meeting on 23 April.

This is an extremely serious matter, and a deeply disappointing one.

It is vital for the operation of good government and for the UK's national interest in some of the most sensitive and important areas that the members of the NSC - from our Armed Forces, our Security and Intelligence Agencies, and the most senior level of government - are able to have frank and detailed discussions in full confidence that the advice and analysis provided is not discussed or divulged beyond that trusted environment.

That is why I commissioned the cabinet secretary to establish an investigation into the unprecedented leak from the NSC meeting last week, and why I expected everyone connected to it - ministers and officials alike - to comply with it fully. You undertook to do so.

I am therefore concerned by the manner in which you have engaged with this investigation.

It has been conducted fairly, with the full co-operation of other NSC attendees.

They have all answered questions, engaged properly, provided as much information as possible to assist with the investigation, and encouraged their staff to do the same. Your conduct has not been of the same standard as others.

In our meeting this evening, I put to you the latest information from the investigation, which provides compelling evidence suggesting your responsibility for the unauthorised disclosure.

No other credible version of events to explain this leak has been identified.

It is vital that I have full confidence in the members of my cabinet and of the National Security Council. The gravity of this issue alone, and its ramifications for the operation of the NSC and the UK's national interest, warrants the serious steps we have taken, and an equally serious response.

It is therefore with great sadness that I have concluded that I can no longer have full confidence in you as secretary of state for defence and a minister in my cabinet and asked you to leave Her Majesty's government.

As you do so, I would like to thank you for the wider contribution you have made to it over the last three years, and for your unquestionable personal commitment to the men and women of our Armed Forces."

Is this precedented? This level of dressing down?

Prosecute him, please.

---

And he's denying it:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...37293577797632

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He "swore on his children's life" he didn't do it:

https://twitter.com/AliBunkallSKY/st...42678778957830

Really? Really? Is this really the state of UK politics?

---

Completely incompetent, useless fucking muppets. The whole lot of them.

[Kronik85]

If the UK allows Huawei to build 5G, the UK should be kicked out of FIVEEYES.

It's as simple as that. Huawei is an arm of Chinese intelligence. If the UK does this, the UK loses access to US intelligence.

For fucks sake, we don't even allow Lenovos into this building I'm working in. Are people really that out of their minds to lay down to China?

Can't risk annoying China when we need them to give us that truly amazing trade deal post Brexit. Please don't point out any realities concerning the mutual exclusivity of future trade deals with the US and China.

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Seems a nice place to have the odd debate that falls outside the Brexit megathread.

To start:

Gavin Williamson (Defence Secretary) has been sacked for leaking information from the National Security Council meeting re. allowing Huawei limited access to help build the UK's new 5G network.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48126974

Williamson had blamed civil servants for the leak.

Now, prosecute him, please.

It's a shame Chris Grayling doesn't sit on the council proper, would of been able to put the mortgage on it being him.

[Pann]

Williamson is denying that the leak came from his department; https://twitter.com/GavinWilliamson/...46864342048769 and given the goings on in Westminster I would like to see the result of a proper enquiry before reaching a conclusion.

In other news the recall petition against Fiona Onasanya has been successful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-48123355

... prison, losing her job and probably being struck off by the end of the week all to avoid paying £80 and being bored for an afternoon!

[LeGin Tufnel]

Yes but, @Pann, Williamson fails completely at being able to deny anything.

Need I remind you: Williamson, Madeley & the elephants:



I'm with Madeley.

---

Anyway, a "proper enquiry" has already taken place. Hence, the prime minister has had to deliver an astonishing public humiliation.

[Valerean]

Whether it was Mr Williamson or not, whoever leaked it did us all a favour - and hopefully will turn the tide against what would be a monumentally stupid decision, if they went ahead and let Huawei participate (against the advice of every single one of our major allies).

I was genuinely astonished that Cabinet were considering letting China anywhere near future telecoms projects. It's the equivalent of asking Sukhoi or Mikoyan to build our next generation of fighter aircraft.

[Kronik85]

Yes but, @Pann, Williamson fails completely at being able to deny anything.

Need I remind you: Williamson, Madeley & the elephants:



I'm with Madeley.

Funny because May's letter was essentially "you're not answering any questions so your career is over".

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Whether it was Mr Williamson or not, whoever leaked it did us all a favour - and hopefully will turn the tide against what would be a monumentally stupid decision, if they went ahead and let Huawei participate (against the advice of every single one of our major allies).

I was genuinely astonished that Cabinet were considering letting China anywhere near future telecoms projects. It's the equivalent of asking Sukhoi or Mikoyan to build our next generation of fighter aircraft.

You are aware of Theresa May right? Like...you've heard her speak and are roughly aware of how, well, SHE DOESN'T CHANGE HER MIND EVER.

Not to mention pressure from deluded Brexiteers who think that a good trade deal with China is actually a thing that could happen.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Williamson is denying that the leak came from his department; https://twitter.com/GavinWilliamson/...46864342048769 and given the goings on in Westminster I would like to see the result of a proper enquiry before reaching a conclusion.[/url]

In fact, what kind of "proper enquiry" is it that you would like to see that would end in a result different to the prime minister of the UK publicly humiliating one of her cabinet?

This is extraordinary.

Without any doubt, the police should open an investigation.

https://twitter.com/tom_watson/statu...37066292760576

[ranzino]

In fact, what kind of "proper enquiry" is it that you would like to see that would end in a result different to the prime minister of the UK publicly humiliating one of her cabinet?

This is extraordinary.

Williamson perhaps wants to point fingers too and has no qualms about wrecking the lame duck aka current PM ?
aaaand the train is rolling AFAIK, as Cressida Dick, Commisioner of Met Police, was already asked to investigate a possible breach of Official Secrets Act. PM cannot sweep such questions under the rug.

[Pann]

In fact, what kind of "proper enquiry" is it that you would like to see that would end in a result different to the prime minister of the UK publicly humiliating one of her cabinet?

This is extraordinary.

Given the seriousness of the allegations and that potentially the Official Secrets Act has been breached I would like to see a full police investigation into the matter.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Williamson perhaps wants to point fingers too and has no qualms about wrecking the lame duck aka currently PM ?

There are two completely separate issues here:

a) May's capitulation to China in the knowledge that post-Brexit UK will be shafted
b) A minister leaking, then blaming the leak on civil servants, information from a meeting that was classified.

The idea that the security services wouldn't have been involved in this investigation, is ridiculous.

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Given the seriousness of the allegations and that potentially the Official Secrets Act has been breached I would like to see a full police investigation into the matter.

Police? You think May would have made this incredibly damaging decision without evidence from the security services?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

What exactly is Breexit? Not familiar with UK news.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Wrong thread. Try this one:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-a-standstill

[Kronik85]

Police? You think May would have made this incredibly damaging decision without evidence from the security services?

Well she offered him the chance to resign and his response has been "come at me bro", so it seems that whatever level of investigation was performed doesn't meet the bar for a proper investigation.

Unless you believe that May would let a fellow minister and ally get off the hook for breaking the law in order to quietly sweep a massive scandal under the rug, if she did indeed have enough evidence to prosecute. :P

[ranzino]

....

Police? You think May would have made this incredibly damaging decision without evidence from the security services?

you see, Williamson IS challenging a police investigation right now. Gavin is poking fingers and gloves are off.

[Pann]

Police? You think May would have made this incredibly damaging decision without evidence from the security services?

Given May's track record???

If he has lost the trust of May and government then it is the right decision to remove him however this leak is incredibly serious and potentially criminal as a result I don't think it is unreasonable that the police investigate.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Really?

You lot are suggesting he didn't do the deed?

Exactly what conclusion do you think Mr Plod will draw?

Anyway, if he's innocent.... what does that imply?

We're all doomed. Doomed, I say.

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Given May's track record???

I mean, I don't like May but this is a conspiracy theory worth of flatulencewarth.

The idea that Williamson didn't do it...

Seriously - £100 now to a charity of your choice.

[Kronik85]

Really?

You lot are suggesting he didn't do the deed?

Exactly what conclusion do you think Mr Plod will draw?

Anyway, if he's innocent.... what does that imply?

We're all doomed. Doomed, I say.

Well he's not Chris Grayling, so there is a possibility that it wasn't him. As such, there should be a proper investigation to see if he was the culprit or find the culprit proper. Then whomever it was should be charged to the full limits of breaching the Official Secrets Act like the rest of us would be if we were leaking State Secrets.

My 2 cents.