Trump pardons a US Army soldier convicted of murdering an Iraqi Man

[Thekri]

For accountability you should have started with Bush Sr. and his "never apologize for the United States" after shooting down Iranian Flight 655.

You know, nobody wants moral grandstanding from the Russians. Go away, come back after we get an apology from Putin for MH17.

[Deletedaccount1]

Because 20,000 sexual assaults a year, but only a handful of convictions isn't a dark side. Because hundreds of murders, prison abuse, and massive amounts of financial corruption aren't real problems I guess. We can't get better until we acknowledge they exist.

You may not care, you seem to believe that power is the only thing that matters, and all those are just the cost of doing business. I still believe there is value in trying to become better, and solve the horrible things we do. Evil isn't a black smoky cloud that follows you around like it is in WoW. In the real world it is caused by not addressing our own moral failings, and allowing them to consume us.

I'm not denying those problems exist but you are ignoring the attempts already being made in the DoD to correct them. I'm also not terribly interested in trying to change your mind given how someone already showed you how this particular case is not as one-sided as you are claiming and you ignored it.

[Shalcker]

You know, nobody wants moral grandstanding from the Russians. Go away, come back after we get an apology from Putin for MH17.

Sure, right after you apologize for Iran.

[Machismo]

I'm not denying those problems exist but you are ignoring the attempts already being made in the DoD to correct them. I'm also not terribly interested in trying to change your mind given how someone already showed you how this particular case is not as one-sided as you are claiming and you ignored it.

It's pretty fucking one-sided. Of course, we could hear from the victim... oh wait... dead.

We have a guy who kidnapped a man, made him strip at gunpoint, interrogated him, and shot him to death. He then left the body, and didn't tell anyone.

If it were "self defense," why didn't he tell his command? That's right, because he fucking murdered a dude.

[Orbitus]

"White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders cited "broad support" for Michael Behenna, of Edmond, Okla., "from the military, Oklahoma elected officials, and the public" -- including 37 generals and admirals, along with a former Pentagon inspector general -- as the reason for Trump's clemency grant. Sanders also said Behenna had been a "model prisoner" while serving his sentence."

Not as clear cut as you make it seem. There was a lot of support for this.

So, a dumb cunt, who is known for lying, and we should take her fat lying mouth's word for it?

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pardons have no formal, legal effect of declaring guilt

You have to admit guilt, to accept a pardon.

[Thekri]

I'm not denying those problems exist but you are ignoring the attempts already being made in the DoD to correct them. I'm also not terribly interested in trying to change your mind given how someone already showed you how this particular case is not as one-sided as you are claiming and you ignored it.

What efforts? Sure there have been platitudes and lip service, but what have we actually seen that promotes accountability? Because I still see generals that rape people getting to retire with full benefits. I haven't seen Navy Admirals fired for enjoying all the hookers and blow that the Philippines has to offer, curtesy of Fat Leonard. Instead we are handing out weak wrist slaps and dragging the case out for a decade.

As far as claiming I am presenting this case as one sided, have you even read my posts in this thread? I specifically called out Breccia for presenting it that way. This is a matter of not condoning bad behavior just because we respect the people accused of it.

[Hilhen7]

The defense contended that Behenna was under an acute stress disorder as a result of the attacks on his platoon and that during the shooting he had acted in self-defense after Mansur lunged at him.[13] After less than three and a half hours of deliberation, the jury came back finding Behenna not guilty of making a false declaration and premeditated murder, but guilty of UCMJ Article 118, unpremeditated murder and sentenced to 25 years confinement.[2]

Acute stress disorder is a mental health condition that can occur immediately after a traumatic event. It can cause a range of psychological symptoms and, without recognition or treatment, it can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder.

It's wrong to kill people but these high stress conflict zones can have a terrible effect on peoples minds.

It would be great if we could just point the finger and say "Yer your a monster, lock him up for ever" but in reality i think its alot more complex than that.

How is it self defense when you hunt the person down, strip them naked, and point a gun at them....?

Logically the person being kidnaped and striped naked is acting in self defense against the madman pointing a gun at him. Imagine a rapist kidnapping a women, striping her naked, and then shooting her (But hey she lunged at me, it was self defense!)

[Easo]

And this always pays off badly internationally, especially after all the circus about International Criminal Court and "how we will govern ourselves" crap. No one has forgotten the massacres done in Vietnam, or the Blackwater shit which just kept dragging on and on. I know that this happens elsewhere too, it is just that USA is on the forefront for multiple reasons. And it get's really ironic, but someone like Trump and his supporters would never acknowledge that.

For accountability you should have started with Bush Sr. and his "never apologize for the United States" after shooting down Iranian Flight 655.

Listen, Mr. Whataboutism, can't go a day without inserting something about USA? No one here talked about Russia's record in this area, but if you want, we always can. Whataboutism is fun, is it not?

[Shalcker]

Listen, Mr. Whataboutism, can't go a day without inserting something about USA?

It is thread about US military and their accountability. What did you want me to post here?

US military not being held accountable has long history. There is no whataboutism because this is thread about US already.

[Easo]

It's wrong to kill people but these high stress conflict zones can have a terrible effect on peoples minds.

It would be great if we could just point the finger and say "Yer your a monster, lock him up for ever" but in reality i think its alot more complex than that.

Kidnapping? Stripping the person and point gun at him? Yeah, sorry dude, there is only one way how to look at this. So we will point a finger and call him monster.

It is thread about US military and their accountability. What did you want me to post here?

US military not being held accountable has long history. There is no whataboutism because this is thread about US already.

You? Absolutely zero. Your entry into this thread is also worded quite peculiarly, which just reeks of USA BAD, LOOK WHAT USA DID.

[Shalcker]

You? Absolutely zero. Your entry into this thread is also worded quite peculiarly, which just reeks of USA BAD, LOOK WHAT USA DID.

Did you read OP?

[D Luniz]

Sure, right after you apologize for Iran.

done back in 1988 by Reagan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.5ecc7eeb5355

as Thekri said

You know, nobody wants moral grandstanding from the Russians. Go away, come back after we get an apology from Putin for MH17.

now scram Shalcker, your shitposts aint needed here

[Shalcker]

done back in 1988 by Reagan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.5ecc7eeb5355

Right,
I am saddened to report that it appears that in a proper defensive action by the U.S.S. Vincennes this morning in the Persian Gulf an Iranian airliner was shot down over the Strait of Hormuz. This is a terrible human tragedy. Our sympathy and condolences go out to the passengers, crew, and their families. The Defense Department will conduct a full investigation.

We deeply regret any loss of life. The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces. When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack.

The only U.S. interest in the Persian Gulf is peace, and this tragedy reinforces the need to achieve that goal with all possible speed.

Well, guess what Putin said after MH17?

As for the terrible tragedy that occurred in the sky above Donetsk – we would like once again to express our condolences to the families of the victims; it is a terrible tragedy. Russia will do everything within its power to ensure a proper comprehensive and transparent investigation. We are asked to influence the militia in the southeast. As I have said, we will do everything in our power, but this is absolutely insufficient.

Yesterday when the militia forces were handing over the so-called black boxes, the armed forces of Ukraine launched a tank attack at the city of Donetsk. The tanks battled through to the railway station and opened fire at it. International experts who came to investigate the disaster site could not stick their heads out. It was clearly not the militia forces shooting at themselves.

We should finally call on the Kiev authorities to comply with elementary norms of human decency and introduce a cease-fire for at least some short period of time to make the investigation possible. We will of course do everything in our power to make sure the investigation is thorough.

Case closed? They do look quite similar.

[D Luniz]

Right,
I am saddened to report that it appears that in a proper defensive action by the U.S.S. Vincennes this morning in the Persian Gulf an Iranian airliner was shot down over the Strait of Hormuz. This is a terrible human tragedy. Our sympathy and condolences go out to the passengers, crew, and their families. The Defense Department will conduct a full investigation.

We deeply regret any loss of life. The course of the Iranian civilian airliner was such that it was headed directly for the U.S.S. Vincennes, which was at the time engaged with five Iranian Boghammar boats that had attacked our forces. When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack.

The only U.S. interest in the Persian Gulf is peace, and this tragedy reinforces the need to achieve that goal with all possible speed.

Well, guess what Putin said after MH17?

As for the terrible tragedy that occurred in the sky above Donetsk – we would like once again to express our condolences to the families of the victims; it is a terrible tragedy. Russia will do everything within its power to ensure a proper comprehensive and transparent investigation. We are asked to influence the militia in the southeast. As I have said, we will do everything in our power, but this is absolutely insufficient.

Yesterday when the militia forces were handing over the so-called black boxes, the armed forces of Ukraine launched a tank attack at the city of Donetsk. The tanks battled through to the railway station and opened fire at it. International experts who came to investigate the disaster site could not stick their heads out. It was clearly not the militia forces shooting at themselves.

We should finally call on the Kiev authorities to comply with elementary norms of human decency and introduce a cease-fire for at least some short period of time to make the investigation possible. We will of course do everything in our power to make sure the investigation is thorough.

Case closed? They do look quite similar.

Reagan took responsablity, Putin claimed Ukraine militia did it and gave some platitudes about helping investigate

Put your banana away Ralph cause it aint even acting like an apology, let alone looking like one

[Shalcker]

Reagan took responsablity, Putin claimed Ukraine militia did it and gave some platitudes about helping investigate

Where do you see "taking responsibility" in that speech? I see regret, and then "When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack."

Looks like blame shifting to me, not taking responsibility.

[D Luniz]

Where do you see "taking responsibility" in that speech? I see regret, and then "When the aircraft failed to heed repeated warnings, the Vincennes followed standing orders and widely publicized procedures, firing to protect itself against possible attack."

Looks like blame shifting to me, not taking responsibility.

the US paid $131.8 million, I know your used to cheap empty words, but the US before the current admin used to make sure its word ment something
if we said something was our fault, we acted on it.

[Shalcker]

the US paid $131.8 million

That was almost decade later just so that Iran would drop case in ICJ, not during Reagan but during Clinton.

In February 1996, the United States agreed to pay Iran US$131.8 million in settlement to discontinue a case brought by Iran in 1989 against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice relating to this incident.

Here is great article comparing it to MH17.

I know your used to cheap empty words, but the US before the current admin used to make sure its word ment something

Umm... no, not really. Next administration reversing previous decisions happened, true.

if we said something was our fault, we acted on it.

Eventually. If pressed hard enough.

[beanman12345]

"White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders cited "broad support" for Michael Behenna, of Edmond, Okla., "from the military, Oklahoma elected officials, and the public" -- including 37 generals and admirals, along with a former Pentagon inspector general -- as the reason for Trump's clemency grant. Sanders also said Behenna had been a "model prisoner" while serving his sentence."

Not as clear cut as you make it seem. There was a lot of support for this.

When you have to cite a known liar as your evidence to a claim, your argument is complete shit to begin with. Not that I expected much from you in that regards anyways, considering your propensity for lying.

[Citizen T]

You have to admit guilt, to accept a pardon.

No you don't. Even using a left wing source to explain away the myths of pardons https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.0bcd3f0fd364

[Ghostpanther]

When you have to cite a known liar as your evidence to a claim, your argument is complete shit to begin with. Not that I expected much from you in that regards anyways, considering your propensity for lying.

You can refuse to not accept that as a source. I choose to accept it as true. And I can tell you for certain, if he was naked or not, if I am holding my firearm at someone and they charge at me to get the firearm, I would shoot them too. Police officers have done it in several cases. That is presenting a deadly threat to you. Self defense for certain can be justified if that scenario is true.

But I was not there and heard all the testimony and I am not saying he was not guilty of anything. Sounds like he did not follow the military rules as a min. Which could result in a court marshal, fine and a dishonorable discharge. But a murder charge seems over the top, unless they did not believe his story. If he had shot him in the back of the head? Murder.