Nazjatar Gear - A casual player dream?

[SirCowdog]

That's a form of gatekeeping. It's a fucking game. Who cares if people get that gear? They're gonna transmog it anyway. The only reason to bar people from certain items behind "difficulty" gates is to make the people who have gotten past them feel superior. There's literally no other reason for it.

Are you shitting me here? Are you being serious?

Overcoming challenges is the entire point of the game. WTF is the point if you get all the rewards and NEVER get challenged? At that point you're just watching a movie.

You are seriously bent if you think that the concept of getting greater rewards by overcoming greater challenges is a petty attempt by me to feel superior. That's just basic logic.

[TheRevenantHero]

Are you shitting me here? Are you being serious?

Overcoming challenges is the entire point of the game. WTF is the point if you get all the rewards and NEVER get challenged? At that point you're just watching a movie.

You are seriously bent if you think that the concept of getting greater rewards by overcoming greater challenges is a petty attempt by me to feel superior. That's just basic logic.

Or.....hear me out....we just offer different ways of obtaining that gear, just make the "easier" ways of doing it take longer. Requires the same effort, it's just considered easy because it's not a mythic raid. Locking gear behind raid difficulties with no other way of getting it is literally telling players who don't have time or don't have a guild that raids that difficulty or what have you can go fuck themselves.

[potis]

Or.....hear me out....we just offer different ways of obtaining that gear, just make the "easier" ways of doing it take longer. Requires the same effort, it's just considered easy because it's not a mythic raid. Locking gear behind raid difficulties with no other way of getting it is literally telling players who don't have time or don't have a guild that raids that difficulty or what have you can go fuck themselves.

This is adorable.

You dont even know the game you are playing.

Gear chasing, item levels, not transmog, is the reason WoW exists, and its whole core gameplay.

You people are literally the reason WoW became what it has become, full of pointless stuff to keep your type that has no clue busy, yet you still, always find something to complain about.

[TheRevenantHero]

This is adorable.

You dont even know the game you are playing.

Gear chasing, item levels, not transmog, is the reason WoW exists, and its whole core gameplay.

You people are literally the reason WoW became what it has become, full of pointless stuff to keep your type that has no clue busy, yet you still, always find something to complain about.

I've been playing WoW since Vanilla. I know exactly what the game is all about. Gatekeeping gear is what causes a rift in the player base. The people who haven't had the chance to be in a hardcore raiding guild will never experience the raids past LFR because nobody will take them due to their ilvl. As a result, their ilvl will never change. Getting the upcoming Benthic gear for catch up isn't as simple as just logging in. You have to actually explore the outdoor content. But apparently, if that's not a raid, you don't deserve the gear. Because people aren't meeting your expectations of how the game SHOULD BE played in your eyes. Sit down with your bullshit gatekeeping. Don't like how the game has evolved to be accessable to everyone rather than the no-lifers? Go play something else.

[Elias01]

Or.....hear me out....we just offer different ways of obtaining that gear, just make the "easier" ways of doing it take longer. Requires the same effort, it's just considered easy because it's not a mythic raid. Locking gear behind raid difficulties with no other way of getting it is literally telling players who don't have time or don't have a guild that raids that difficulty or what have you can go fuck themselves.

It doesnt take longer. And yes if you dont have time to raid you should not expect raid level rewards. You dont even need them in first place if you dont raid. And if you didnt notice people are sick of such rewarding structure and no they are not minority.

[TheRevenantHero]

It doesnt take longer. And yes if you dont have time to raid you should not expect raid level rewards. You dont even need them in first place if you dont raid. And if you didnt notice people are sick of such rewarding structure and no they are not minority.

They are 100% the minority. Everyone that I see bitch about catch up mechanics are elitist jerks who think they are the only people entitled to any gear in the game or people who don't even play the game anymore that just want a reason to talk smack about the game.

[Tomana]

No, Togabito is just asking for heroic gear from WQs. :/

That's not quite true. The gear from WQ can be eventually upgraded to just below heroic.
This being said, we still have no idea how fast it will be, since current PTR tuning is probably placeholder.
What Nazjatar WQs will allow will be quick 400 ilvl (and not on all of the slots), which is less than normal Palace.

Leveling in vanilla is certainly more challenging than in the live game. There's no heirlooms, you have fewer abilities, and monsters generally hit harder. Certain specs are not designed very well for leveling either, unlike modern wow where you can faceroll with any spec and bad gear.

Leveling being hard because of broken specs is not really the same thing as leveling being difficult. It is more tedious, that's for sure, but if you don't try something silly like leveling with a holy paladin in vanilla, it was not difficult.

[potis]

I've been playing WoW since Vanilla. I know exactly what the game is all about. Gatekeeping gear is what causes a rift in the player base. The people who haven't had the chance to be in a hardcore raiding guild will never experience the raids past LFR because nobody will take them due to their ilvl. As a result, their ilvl will never change. Getting the upcoming Benthic gear for catch up isn't as simple as just logging in. You have to actually explore the outdoor content. But apparently, if that's not a raid, you don't deserve the gear. Because people aren't meeting your expectations of how the game SHOULD BE played in your eyes. Sit down with your bullshit gatekeeping. Don't like how the game has evolved to be accessable to everyone rather than the no-lifers? Go play something else.

"Rift in the playerbase".

Why would i want to even play and care about some random nobody that cant even count to 10 without having an aneurysm in terms of WoW average skill?

What exactly do you need to gear for?

To hit for 1.5mil instead of 1.4mil in your transmog run?

To hit for 14k isntead of 13.5k on mobs that have 50k HP in "outdoor content"?

WoW is raiding, nothing else, if you dont raid, unsub from the game cause all you are is a victim of your own stupidity that doesnt know what game they are playing.

But Blizzard is an amazing company, they added so many irrelevant bullshit things to do in this game, that has million of players doing all that useless pointless crap, isntead of actually playing the game for what it is, a raiding simulator.

I gave up "proper" raiding, 9 years ago, and even unsubbed for 2 years averagely cause i focused on studying, even so Flex appeared a few months after i resubbed and gave me exactly what i needed.

Now i raid 4h/week, but i am not a terrible player that needs 100 hours to do things that require 10.

[Tomana]

They are 100% the minority. Everyone that I see bitch about catch up mechanics are elitist jerks who think they are the only people entitled to any gear in the game or people who don't even play the game anymore that just want a reason to talk smack about the game.

Pretty much. Unfortunately, some devs have that elitist mindset themselves.

[SirCowdog]

Or.....hear me out....we just offer different ways of obtaining that gear, just make the "easier" ways of doing it take longer. Requires the same effort, it's just considered easy because it's not a mythic raid. Locking gear behind raid difficulties with no other way of getting it is literally telling players who don't have time or don't have a guild that raids that difficulty or what have you can go fuck themselves.

You're still just advocating that that game get easier in order to cater to you, rather than rising to the challenge the game actually presents. :/

And you're also operating on false premise. Where did I EVER say that raiding was the ONLY way to get gear? I simply said that players who only do quest content don't deserve raid gear as an example. Because raiding IS more difficult than questing. But my core principle in this argument is:

YOU SHOULD GET REWARDS IN LINE WITH THE ACTUAL DIFFICULTY YOU OVERCOME.

But you're not asking for something like more difficult open world or solo content. If you'd have suggested that, I would have agreed with you. I think the Mage Tower and things like the Green Fire quest for locks were PERFECT examples of this. I think Blizzard should take M+ mechanics and apply it to solo-scenarios!

You just want to replace actual challenges with mindless low level grinding.

That's why I can't agree with you. You want better gear? Overcome better challenges. If that means dungeons, do M+. If that means raiding, then raid. If that means asking Blizzard for more Mage Tower content, then ask for that. Do NOT ask for the game to give you good rewards for faceroll content!

[TheRevenantHero]

"Rift in the playerbase".

Why would i want to even play and care about some random nobody that cant even count to 10 without having an aneurysm in terms of WoW average skill?

What exactly do you need to gear for?

To hit for 1.5mil instead of 1.4mil in your transmog run?

To hit for 14k isntead of 13.5k on mobs that have 50k HP in "outdoor content"?

WoW is raiding, nothing else, if you dont raid, unsub from the game cause all you are is a victim of your own stupidity that doesnt know what game they are playing.

But Blizzard is an amazing company, they added so many irrelevant bullshit things to do in this game, that has million of players doing all that useless pointless crap, isntead of actually playing the game for what it is, a raiding simulator.

So PvP doesn't exist. Roleplaying servers have absolutely no population. Questing and learning about the lore just isn't a thing. WoW is just for raiding and nothing else, yeah? And unless you're in the right guild with the right people, you may as well unsub. People with your mentality are 100% why Classic will fail.

[potis]

So PvP doesn't exist. Roleplaying servers have absolutely no population. Questing and learning about the lore just isn't a thing. WoW is just for raiding and nothing else, yeah? And unless you're in the right guild with the right people, you may as well unsub. People with your mentality are 100% why Classic will fail.

That doesnt even make sense.

Roleplaying doesnt require a fucking game to happen, just because Blizzard gave the option cause it knows its free money, doesnt mean shit.

What lore?The 2 books and WC3 is all you need to know, and out of the over 150million accounts created (This number is 9 years old, its easily way more now, but you people dont like numbers cause it invalidates your whole existence, so), i can guarantee not even the 1mil players, active or inactive know the actual lore, they just like the furry porn following them on the internet.

There is your roleplaying community.

PvP? Sure, aftereffect of the 2000s MMORPG generation, evolved into Arena and became irrelevant and is literally the reason your type of player cries about classes, oh wait, Battlegrounds, Special olympics versus Special Olympics, congratulations.

Are we gonna have a serious discussion or are you gonna keep giving irrelevant things to fit your agenda of how "The casuals deserve loot too".

Your personal opinion and experience is irrelevant to what the game is actually about, understand this.

Its like claiming "WHEN I WAS 4 YEARS OLD I WAS PLAYING FOOTBALL AND CARRYING THE BALL TO THE NET AND MY GRANDMOTHER PRAISED ME, SO FOOTBALL IS PLAYED LIKE THAT, OKAY?" while completely ignoring what its actually about.

No one said dont play the game, but realize that you are playing a RAIDING SIMULATOR WITH 50 IRRELEVANT STUFF TO KEEP YOUR TYPE PAYING, cause they are a company first.

[SirCowdog]

That's not quite true. The gear from WQ can be eventually upgraded to just below heroic.

Yes, and he was bent out of shape about it being 425 instead of 430 that Heroic Eternal Palace drops.

Leveling being hard because of broken specs is not really the same thing as leveling being difficult. It is more tedious, that's for sure, but if you don't try something silly like leveling with a holy paladin in vanilla, it was not difficult.

Yes, and I believe I clarified that in that same post by saying "Both(vanilla/live) of those bars are set really low".

[Tomana]

Yes, and he was bent out of shape about it being 425 instead of 430 that Heroic Eternal Palace drops.

Well, the problem is not the -5 ilvl, but what it shows, namely the total lack of care for non-raiders.
Frankly, at this point, WoW devs could take a page or two out of FFXIV/ESO's books.

[Big Thanks]

they also made it so you cant send the upgrades to alts, meaning you can only do it on 1 char.
and the rate you get mana pearls currently means by the time the raid comes out you will maybe have 1 or 2 425s

Im done.

I was 100% excited for this patch...

[FelPlague]

Im done.

I was 100% excited for this patch...

you can still get them mate, but being able to gear up in full 425 before raiders even get acsess to the raid would be insane.

[SirCowdog]

Well, the problem is not the -5 ilvl, but what it shows, namely the total lack of care for non-raiders.
Frankly, at this point, WoW devs could take a page or two out of FFXIV/ESO's books.

Oh, I absolutely agree that there needs to be more challenging content outside of raids and M+! If we had Mage Tower+ in the same way as Mythic+ dungeons, that'd be a good start.

But that's a different topic, and that's not what people like Togabito and TheRevenantHero are arguing for.

[Big Thanks]

But that's a different topic, and that's not what people like Togabito and TheRevenantHero are arguing for.

Man of Jesus

It all depends on how hardcore is the farm.

If a fucking farm takes 3 hours everyday for 1 month, it absolutely is worth Heroic ilvl gear. Absofuckinglutely.

You know why?
Because you get home from work and you fuking spend 3 hours farming (entire gaming session) everyday for 1 month.

Those 3 hours are spent doing something specific that is not exactly what you like doing best.
I could be doing something else entirely on those 3 hours. BUT I CHOSE to do this "hardcore farm".

TLDR: It all depends on how hardcore is the farm

[potis]

Man of Jesus

It all depends on how hardcore is the farm.

If a fucking farm takes 3 hours everyday for 1 month, it absolutely is worth Heroic ilvl gear. Absofuckinglutely.

You know why?
Because you get home from work and you fuking spend 3 hours farming (entire gaming session) everyday for 1 month.

Those 3 hours are spent doing something specific that is not exactly what you like doing best.

What, and you expect to play Classic where 3 hours for someone of your type is literally, just the group forming?

[Big Thanks]

What, and you expect to play Classic where 3 hours for someone of your type is literally, just the group forming?

My opinion only makes sence for current WoW.