SAT test to now include "adversity" score

[Najnaj]

Tests can't be designed around scoring people lower based on race or being more difficult based on race. All races can achieve the same knowledge and be as smart, there's no difference between races in this.

You are not understanding the topic. No one is saying that one race is dumber than another. Race, culture, gender among others influence everything and that includes tests. I could easily make a test and center it around my personal experiences, even if the subject is something totally different, making it very hard for someone who shares none of my experiences.

Unless you are talking straight up math, these things matter.

[Minikin]

It's often not about funding. New York City spends 22k per student. It's that those students are raised in poverty, with broken families in a broken culture, by dumb parents who were terrible students themselves (and often raised in broken homes, single parent, grandma, whatever).

It's very difficult to create a good school if there's no community to back it up.

And also, the biggest problem is that the focus is on improving the performance of every student, which comes at a significant cost to the high achievers who get ignored while the system pours money into behavior plans, therapy, special ed, and smaller classrooms for the hopeless cases.

This is 100% correct. Dunno where you live but the boards here in the GTA region concluded exactly this a year or so ago, as home health being a far more impactful reason than just pushing more money into schools.

[Najnaj]

I understand the topic just fine. You're screaming racism at something that isn't racist. Someone struggling due to language or lacking knowledge isn't racist, it means they need to learn more.

I have barely mentioned racism ....

No you are not understanding the topic as clearly displayed by this very reply. What we are discussing here are issues not related to the subject. It isn't things you can study for as it is...unrelated.

I recently had to take a linguistics test for a citizenship and I nearly failed due to some idiot making it all about stuff that was really local and not at all related to linguistics. It was almost impossible for me to finish as I did not know what the hell they were talking about. It was all about local wildlife btw which someone born here could just have ignored as they would know all the details but I had to really focus on the details and this screwed my concentration on what the test was really about. To say that I need to learn more when I nearly fail an English test due to not knowing about the plight of local bats is silly.

[Seranthor]

You're screaming racism at something that isn't racist. Someone struggling due to language or lacking knowledge isn't racist, it means they need to learn more.

This is probably a bad time to point out your own screeching racist at people that dont know you are Thai.

[Kraenen]

Yeah, no. There's more than two centuries of history explaining why "leaving it alone" doesn't solve the problem.

Or it could be all a myth and the best and brightest just happen to resemble



Yessir, no systemic bias here.

Those wafers don't look particularly asian or jewish

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I have barely mentioned racism ....

No you are not understanding the topic as clearly displayed by this very reply. What we are discussing here are issues not related to the subject. It isn't things you can study for as it is...unrelated.

I recently had to take a linguistics test for a citizenship and I nearly failed due to some idiot making it all about stuff that was really local and not at all related to linguistics. It was almost impossible for me to finish as I did not know what the hell they were talking about. It was all about local wildlife btw which someone born here could just have ignored as they would know all the details but I had to really focus on the details and this screwed my concentration on what the test was really about. To say that I need to learn more when I nearly fail an English test due to not knowing about the plight of local bats is silly.

Sounds like you don't like the subjectivity of intelligence testing (which has actually been validated cross-culturally), but think an "adversity score" is somehow more objective. Or maybe you're just aware that if you have power you can get it done regardless of the validity of a construct and you're even more aware your political allies are in power and aren't going away any time soon.

[Najnaj]

Those wafers don't look particularly asian or jewish

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Sounds like you don't like the subjectivity of intelligence testing (which has actually been validated cross-culturally), but think an "adversity score" is somehow more objective. Or maybe you're just aware that if you have power you can get it done regardless of the validity of a construct and you're even more aware your political allies are in power and aren't going away any time soon.

Or maybe you just need to get your doctor to adjust the dosage.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

All I see is screaming racist to something that isn't racist. If you don't perform well on a test, that's because you lack knowledge of what's being tested or you're not very smart, neither of them is racist.

Maybe you should do a little more research. It took you around 15 minutes to reply, so I doubt you read any of the links to completion or took the time to think on it. Meanwhile I have spent years, and I know the people writing said articles have spent even longer, studying this sort of thing. Its also telling that the people who developed the SAT and IQ tests said they were being misused and were racist....

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Tests can't be designed around scoring people lower based on race or being more difficult based on race. All races can achieve the same knowledge and be as smart, there's no difference between races in this.

Its not actually "race," as race isn't a real thing... its purely about culture, socioeconomic status, etc. This is why I originally brought up language, for instance.

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I understand the topic just fine. You're screaming racism at something that isn't racist. Someone struggling due to language or lacking knowledge isn't racist, it means they need to learn more.

No, you do not. You spent a max 15 minutes reading those articles.

[Adam Jensen]

But life isn't fair. So, why should we try to make it fair?

Because we can make people's lives better by doing so.

Just because life isn't fair, doesn't mean it has to be.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Those wafers don't look particularly asian or jewish

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Sounds like you don't like the subjectivity of intelligence testing (which has actually been validated cross-culturally), but think an "adversity score" is somehow more objective. Or maybe you're just aware that if you have power you can get it done regardless of the validity of a construct and you're even more aware your political allies are in power and aren't going away any time soon.

Citation please.

[Adam Jensen]

Those sjw activists are the biggest racists and bigots actually, thats a proven fact.

"SJW Activists" who are either fringe minorities or who have had their words and actions widely distorted and spun without context. Most the shit conservatives and alt-righters believe about the "left" is bullshit propaganda you swallow from eggheads like Crowder and Shapiro.

[Pooti]

No matter how good teachers are and schools are funded, young students with a terrible home life due to poverty or bad/indifferent parents will be at a huge disadvantage. The only solution I can see is to go full government control and remove parent agency from educating children. All children get shipped off to boarding school. That would of course raise a whole slew of different problems, but it is the only solution to the disadvantages certain children face from the homes they grow up in.

[Kraenen]

Citation please.

Imo if the test predicts future performance similarly in two different groups (here we're talking about black and white americans) then the testing is as valid for the two groups.

The American Psychological Association's report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that in the United States IQ tests as predictors of social achievement are not biased against African Americans since they predict future performance, such as school achievement, similarly to the way they predict future performance for Caucasians.[9] While agreeing that IQ tests predict performance equally well for all racial groups, Nicholas Mackintosh also points out that there may still be a bias inherent in IQ testing if the education system is also systematically biased against African Americans, in which case educational performance may in fact also be an underestimation of African American children's cognitive abilities.[165] Earl Hunt points out that while this may be the case that would not be a bias of the test, but of society.

[Delekii]

Tests can't be designed around scoring people lower based on race or being more difficult based on race. All races can achieve the same knowledge and be as smart, there's no difference between races in this.

You (and apparently 80% of people reading this thing, holy shit) cannot seem to grasp is that it might be true that "all races can achieve the same results", the tests are currently highly skewed. Socio-economic factors have a massive impact on potential outcome. Tests cant be designed around "being more difficult based on socioeconomic factors" but they can absolutely measure and report those factors in parallel to outcomes.

The article isnt saying that they will change the results in any way of the test itself. It will be a secondary comparative axis. If two people score the same and one is from a lower socioeconomic background, the chance that they arent 'smarter' in potential is relatively zero.

[Tico]

Maybe the idea itself is not bad, but I think in practice it will hardly work well. I am talking about the abuse of this rule.

[Stormdash]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sat-adv...playing-field/

This reads like something out of a bad marxist dystopia. Do you support this?

So, the SAT is no longer a communal inter-generational touchstone, and just more kindling for the fire.

[GreenJesus]

I have barely mentioned racism ....

No you are not understanding the topic as clearly displayed by this very reply. What we are discussing here are issues not related to the subject. It isn't things you can study for as it is...unrelated.

I recently had to take a linguistics test for a citizenship and I nearly failed due to some idiot making it all about stuff that was really local and not at all related to linguistics. It was almost impossible for me to finish as I did not know what the hell they were talking about. It was all about local wildlife btw which someone born here could just have ignored as they would know all the details but I had to really focus on the details and this screwed my concentration on what the test was really about. To say that I need to learn more when I nearly fail an English test due to not knowing about the plight of local bats is silly.

That was to test your reading comprehension. No one knows about the fucking bats that isn't the point. They give you a page or something with a bunch of random information and then see how well you can answer questions based on that information you just read.

[Delekii]

I said the tests aren't racist because anyone can do well on them and anyone can fail them. Try reading.

Im going to assume when you say racist, you mean unfair to those with disadvantage, which is what this change measures. Black people are typically much more highly disadvantaged, but it would apply equally to anyone with disadvantage.

The fact that "anyone can do well or fail them" is a misnomer, it has no actual relevance. The score you get from the test is a way to compare takers relative to each other which fails to account for important information relevant to the context in which those scores were achieved. Two scores the same can have extremely diffirent contextual meaning.

This secondary axis offers context to scores that previously wasnt measured, but has an overwhelming effect on the outcomes. It can onlybe a good thing.

[Delekii]

No, the people I quoted were arguing it's racist. You do know what racism is? You can't make a test score people lower based on their racial background. It's impossible yet they claim it's done.

No, they didn't.

[Cizr]

If that is discrimination then food stamps is discrimination too... seriously, get a grip.

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Lol you are deluded. If they accept someone just because of their skin colour/economic status you are discriminating all others.

[Tabrotar]

Because there are no checks and balances in place to make sure that people don't do that. Like, in competitive sports people can just choose a gender and have at it without there being any regulations governing them having had hormone treatments etc.

That's literally how the world works. Good thing that, because if the above weren't the case then you would be making a really fucking dumb point here.



Yeah sure. If something is hard then we just shouldn't attempt it. I love the work ethic.

Oh you mean like that nice one "woman" with balls producing more testoseron and they then decided bcs of that she can´t compete in the womans bracket and she tried to get that reworked bcs she claims to be a "woman" hm. You mean like that mate?