Idea's to make Classic's raid "Harder"

[kamuimac]

Am I the only one infuriated by the thread title punctuation?

Also I'm surprised "bring a bunch of ret palys" wasn't the first suggestion.

well we could also suggest make a raid comp of 8 ret palies 8 shadow priest and 8 oomkins instead 8 warriors 8 mages 8 rogues

but lets be honesty nobdy will do that

[mightyquinn]

0 death heigan dance... Have fun

[Zanguru]

I don't want them to change anything with the game up to naxx but I do hope classic is a raging success to the point where blizzard decides to continue with the timeline after naxx ( not towards tbc).

There are plenty of things they said they wanted to release back then but didn't have time for, like vanilla kharazan, emerald dream , the azshara bg and several other things, the progression would be horizontal, not the way expansions work ( no extra levels or new worlds), basically just adding extra dungeons /raids and content.

[avitush]

Well, as far as I can remember, there's no in-game limitation in Classic that would stop you from entering Naxx with 20 people. I don't think there's a "you must have 40 players in the raid" error that'll stop you at the door or at any boss encounters. I don't think you'd get very far, but you could totally try if you wanted.

I'm not a "no changer" at all and am completely open to ideas that would improve Classic (a game that certainly had a lot of room for improvement), but I don't really feel like this is one of the good ones.

[facefist]

I know

I mean, I personally want some changes to the game. I would like some QoL improvements and such, but for me to ask for them, mean the actual Classic game will change, so it is no longer actually Classic, which defeats the purpose of the thing people have been asking for, for years.

All shitty threads like this do, is make my blood boil with all honesty. I swear, half the excitement is from a *fanbase* that seems to think Classic WoW is more of some kind of expansion launch, than a revistation of the original game, and means they can demand changes to everything.


Jesus.

It's just as stupid that people seem to think that Classic is some sort of act of good will from blizzard to their loyal fanbase. No, Blizzard is listed company. Vanilla is a product. Blizzard is looking to make profit. If big enough player base wants changes and Blizzard thinks it is profitable, they will do it eventually. Customers can and will demand things they want from a company, you need to get a clue about business if you think it is something terrible.

And this all is coming from someone who doesn't want ANY changes. I just want to revisit the old experience.

[Aggrophobic]

TLR This is after players have cleared it already, ways that the top guilds can challenge themselves much like the ironman challenge its similar to gimping one's self in order to do something harder.

Less people is basically the first thing that comes to mind, entering Naxx with 20 players and clearing it would be an achievement.. not sure if its possible however.
1-10% mob damage/hp buff i wonder if this would even be possible because you'd want to adjust all the skill damage as well.. but it'd be too much work so perhaps a "players deal 1-10% less damage and take 1-10% more damage"
I also believe players will speed run the raids on their own and likely have timer addons so that blizzard adding one wouldn't be much use.

I do think the player damage taken/reduced output would be the best thing blizzard could do to tune up the classic raids harder.
And i think if the dev's were up for it scaling Karazhan to 60 would be awesome.. and the line i'd personally draw on extra content, anything else would just be scaling down the next expansion of content and by then a server for it would be better, but it would be interesting to see the Wow dev's model Karazhan the way they wanted/would've wanted to do back then perhaps including the entire place.


Now i understand some people don't want to think ahead or have any changes and of course i don't suggest these during the play cycle or even 6 months after their release i'm talking about when most people have done raids already and guilds are looking at timed runs at that stage, but i thought about having a player debuff being the best and easiest thing from a dev point of view to put into classic and should at least tell somebody else so that in 3 years time maybe it gets repeated to the right person.

(I loathe beta's i hate losing progress but i'm so hyped i almost want to play the beta!!)

You wanted classic. Now you have classic.
There is simply not wat to actually make the classic raids intresting by todays standards without changing the whole fights at the core and thats not happening. Tank and spank is boring now matter how much damage the boss does.
If you actually want a challenge there is mythic raids and m+ in retail.

[Villentretenmerth]

Just bring a balanced raid comp and refuse to look up strats.

Bring 5 of everything. Until naxx, then bring 8 warriors and make some cuts.

The min maxers want as many mages and warriors as possible. Having twice the hunters should help. 12-15 (assuming one spriest, ret/enh, feral) healers is probably overkill with player skill in 2019, too.

Add in no guild requirement to have a raid spec and you’re golden.

You’ll have PvP mages and ele specced resto sham. So long as folks farm their resist gear and aq and beyond consumes, you’ll clear what you want to, it’ll just take longer.

Everyone knows the Strats already /facepalm

[crakerjack]

Vanilla raids were never hard. It was never a case of "Can you handle it?" instead it was more like "Are you prepared?" If you didn't have the right consumables, enchants, resistance gear and everything else, you weren't going to beat the boss. You could do the mechanics as best to your capability, but you'd fall flat 10/10 times without the essential equipment.

It's not hard, it's just time consuming and tedious. To make it hard, you'd have to add current mechanics which I'd be game for. Fights are boring when there's only 2-3 mechanics and sometimes depending on your role, you'll never have to worry about them.

[valky94]

*
snip*

on the private servers people have been doing speedruns of raids, so my guess thats the plan for hardcore guilds on classic once after they farmed most of their gear

[Dundebuns]

If you want a truly difficult mode, just turn your monitor off when starting the run.

[anon5123]

Increasing boss health won't make it harder, it will just make it take longer.

Increasing boss damage won't make it harder, it will just make you take a few more healers.

/shrug

There is no way to make MC/BWL "hard" again, outside of completely changing them. We're highly experienced players who have already completed these raids and have numerous guides that detail every last bit of them.

[Afrospinach]

People are playing classic largely because they've lost faith in Blizzard's ability to make decisions that they enjoy, so asking blizzard to create new content is counter-intuitive to that mindset.

Nail on the head.

I think it would be nice if there were so token itemisation for some of the more neglected offspecs but as you say my faith that any of these decisions can be made without just losing the plot is near zero.

[silloh]

Probably using 0 addons would be a good start...

[slicer]

Do them with a blindfold. lol

[Thunderball]

I would love that but nubs are gonna cry, so no.

[prwraith]

Can someone explain to me why people even want to raid classic again? Those raids are unbelievably easy / boring.

They're just time consuming to prep for.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Would be fun to clear content with hybrids only- meaning no hunters, rogues, warriors, warlocks, mages and priests.

[facefist]

Yes, and no.

Half of the actual product they are selling is the experience. The nostalgia.

You literally lose all of that when you start tampering with it, and if 90% of the playerbase coming are coming simply because they want that, you will not get any changes whatsoever, because that would be bad for business. Start altering the model, it is no longer classic, and you will alienate those customers, and the chances are the changes might not even be what the newer players actually want.
I cannot see BLizzard, with all their focus groups, PR shenanigans, and other jiggery-pokery mussing up a sure fire cash cow like this, not after all the effort they have put in to replicate it. They would have been better served then literally just cutting down the current product like other "Legacy" games have done.
No changes will stay, it is simply utterly awful for business.

I think you missed my point, I completely agree with you that making changes would be bad business wise (which we cannot say with certainty, but I share your opinion). I just disagreed with the parts where you said "...think they can demand changes to everything" and calling threads like this shitty. I don't agree with bashing the people wanting changes.

I think it's fine for customers to ask/demand for things, thats what got us Classic in the first place regardless of the huge amount of retail people spamming "stop asking for it you will never get Classic!" See my point now? It's fine to demand something because that's how you increase your chances of actually getting the product you want, the demand just has to come from huge masses which happened with Classic.

[Vynestra]

but the vanilla fanbois told me vanilla bosses were 10x harder than current endgame mythic bosses.

Why would you need to make them harder?

Mythic Jaina? Pfft EZPZ compared to Onyxia amirite?

[Hinastorm]

For better or worse, we're getting no changes the first go around. Raids are gonna be easier than most expect, and alot of people are going to be disappointed by that.

That said, Everquest has already gone through all of this with their progression servers, and their solution (on the 4 or 5th? round of progression servers) was to put a buff on bosses that upped their damage, and decreased the damage they take. Overall, its been a success.

Given bliz's resources, i'd rather see new mechanics added to old bosses instead of the route everquest took. On a later round of servers, not the first round.