What I dont understand of players who want vanilla wow.

[cparle87]

1. Yes, gameplay in BfA is terrible. Too complex rotations, too fast playstyle. Vanilla is literally better in every regard. I'm not air interceptor pilot trying to survive, I'm just chilling out after hard work day. Spamming frostbolt is just fine. I have no idea about FF because I don't play chinese anime games.

And yet one of the biggest complaints about BFA is things being put on the gcd to slow play down. Does not compute.

[Budong]

Simple...it's fun.

[HuxNeva]

1. Yes, gameplay in BfA is terrible. Too complex rotations, too fast playstyle. Vanilla is literally better in every regard. I'm not air interceptor pilot trying to survive, I'm just chilling out after hard work day. Spamming frostbolt is just fine. I have no idea about FF because I don't play chinese anime games.

2. Time investment is just what I need. I don't play other games and I like when my time investment feels imactful. Retail WoW lost it. I spent months progressing in Uldir. Now any noob who farms daily quests is better than me. Not good!

I don't think that you have to prepare for vanilla raids. You can if you want, but that's not necessary. There are no mythic modes in vanilla. If you don't have enough DPS, just farm more gear and try next week, that's about it. You can buy flask, but that's up to you, that's not something required by the game.

3. I don't know nothing about vanilla, sorry to burst you bubble. I will wipe you in dead mines learning tactics on bosses, be prepared!

4. Sub is not a problem. My salary is $300, I can afford subscription.

Are you advocating a game with single button spam 'rotation', no preparation needed encounters and no way to catch-up?
Are you the publisher of cookie clicker?

[Whistl3r]

I'm not quite sure how to express how much more rewarding classic is. Im levelling a rogue and there is just so much satisfaction in playing this class compared to in retail. Stealth is a tool that needs to be used carefully, its nothing like in retail, its slow and you will get spotted when a Mob turns around and faces you. You get actual satisfaction each time you get to open from stealth or sneak past a mob or two without being spotted. Brewing poisons, practising lock picking. I feel like I'm becoming a better rogue with every level gained.
This is the second time I've done all of this, having played since the original wow open beta. It doesn't matter because its been such a long time so it feels quite fresh. Don't get me started on the social interaction, everyone is just having a nice time and being good people and it makes you want be good back.
Man I love this game.

[HuxNeva]

I'm not quite sure how to express how much more rewarding classic is. Im levelling a rogue and there is just so much satisfaction in playing this class compared to in retail. Stealth is a tool that needs to be used carefully, its nothing like in retail, its slow and you will get spotted when a pop turns around and faces you. You get actually satisfaction each time you get to open from stealth or sneak past a mob or two without being spotted. Brewing poisons, practising lock picking. I feel like I'm becoming a better rogue with every level gained.
This is the second time I've done all of this, having played since the original wow open beta. It doesn't matter because its been such a long time so it feels quite fresh. Don't get me started on the social interaction, everyone is just having a nice time and being good people and it makes you want be good back.
Man I love this game.

I like the long haul character progression, gradual build through the world as well. Social in the 'very small' beta seems miles away from what it was on the 'stresstest'. Which do you think resembles Classic live more? I personally would hope the former, but am rather convinced of the latter.

[Pentai]

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" as the saying goes, the inevitable ups and downs of retail can get pretty exhausting.

[Whistl3r]

I like the long haul character progression, gradual build through the world as well. Social in the 'very small' beta seems miles away from what it was on the 'stresstest'. Which do you think resembles Classic live more? I personally would hope the former, but am rather convinced of the latter.

I have zero doubt that once it start you'll get toxic people. You did in vanilla, you always will have. It's just like life though, you treat people like you want to be treated and hope that most people see it that way.

[Tekkommo]

1. Yes, gameplay in BfA is terrible. Too complex rotations, too fast playstyle.

I would say BFA reduced the rotations, they are all so basic now (can't speak for all ofc, not played all and not played for a while) and class kits are also reduced. Agree about playstyle, BFA is more like an arcade game than a RPG.

[Funkyjunky]

Gotta lol a bit at the streamers discovering you can:

- Heal a dungeon without ever drinking or going oom
- just chainpull everything and never have to cc
- Shaman tank dungeons
- Void Walker tank dungeons

There are reasons why private servers tend to up the difficulty a few notches from Vanilla

This is the thing thats holding me back from Classic.

Most private servers are trying to emulate raids and dungeons prenerf(!). Every major patch during vanilla had nerfs to dungeons and raids, and since classic will strictly use 1.12 data - then we will get a game with every nerf active.

Yes, private servers are harder than Classic. But so was vanilla retail.

[kappalol]

In vanilla you make stories. In Bfa you just expecence those blizz made for you.

[HuxNeva]

In vanilla you make stories. In Bfa you just expecence those blizz made for you.

The pre-Cata world had most certainly a less linear, less 'on-rails' feel to it. I've seen them trying to reintroduce it a bit in Legion and BfA, but more as a small side dish rather than as a core meal philosophy.

[hynx]

its very simple to answer. the two versions of the game are VERY VERY different. they look the same to the casual passerby, (maybe some polish to the later version) but they are effectively different games. talent trees, unique building options, feeling actual growth in power with a single level up or swapping that level 17 green pants to a level 19 blue pants...hell even blue level 16 pants would feel stronger, and noticeably. bringing back the social aspect, the ditch of the toxic player who now has to maintain a reputation to not be a shitbag on the server, or go back to the grind and make another alt. asking for help on quests, the need to group up for world quests, the lack of flying and push into better submersion through atmosphere and exploration on foot, instead of watching the tree lines or the horizon at the edge of the draw distance...unique gear set ups where a BIS can be a green, for one boss because fire resistance, and a blue wand is BIS for all non ice mage casters for a boss in AQ. the stupid niche shit...yes was stupid, but it felt rewarding that you had to use the unique strategy to shatter that stupid slime monster. those were immersive to the fight. a warrior with a 2h sword stabbing a jello monster isnt gonna kill it. freezing the fuck out of it and then boom hammer time...yes. makes sense. again yes it was stupid, but it was fun, if oyu had the patience to get the gear needed. i hope things are tweaked down for 25 man instad of the need of 40 raiders, cus that part was never fun, grouping up; but thats never gonna happen to maintain authenticity to the experience, and i am accepting of those terms, vanilla was far from perfect, but it was far more enjoyable for me, than the current state of wow, which just feels like a dance in raiding, playing hide and seek with mechanics, and the rotation spamming instead of getting creative with abilities, especially as a healer. oh and stat options...so much more stat options (unless im thinking TBC for things like mp5, ARP etc, that part is fuzzy doesnt help im drunk writing this)

[Letrema]

Here's my list. (all things basically never happen in live anymore...)

1) Running a lvl 20 dungeon and actually being happy when you get a drop and it's something useful.
2) Looking forward to getting to the next level so you can get the next rank of a spell.
3) Looking forward to getting to the next level so you get that all important talent point. (so you get a new ability!)
4) Grouping with a few random people to kill an elite for a quest, where you barely beat the mob. (and had no hope to beat it by yourself)
5) Randomly buffing a warrior and they run over to you and give you free water.
6) Getting an item in a lvl 50 dungeon that could be BiS for pre-endgame.
7) Finally getting that last Essence of Air/Felcloth to make yourself gear that is actually REALLY good.
8) Not mindlessly pulling 10 mobs, actually having to use CC.
9) Getting an upgrade to an item and actually being able to tell the difference in the dmg/healing you do.
10) Yes, slowing down the gameplay!

Grant it there are some bad as well, but I'm just answering the OPs question.

[socialmaker]

I'm just going to address point 3. Every RTS game or Turn based game has the same things over and over again and people still find them fun to play.

[slickwilly]

They need to get some some sun and vitamin D

[tankbug]

There is basically nothing I really miss about the vanilla version of wow, other than my own feelings regarding the game at that time. I want vanilla just to rediscover, and replay the experience. Not to relive it as such, that's impossible, but just unlock some happy memories. Mechanically,graphically, technically the game was a lot worse than it is today.

[slime]

How do you guys even get past his first sentence:
"So I recently took a look at this hole debate on youtube"
?

[justandulas]

I feel the same way about people who enjoy the live version of wow: diablo the mmo arpg.

To each their own and there’s wow for us all, but you ask a dumb question.

Some of us prefer a more eq like wow, some prefer the silly diablo wow we have today.

Why so many retail players insecure about classic?

[Dubba]

So finishing 15 and higher keys is killing everything with minimal effort?
So getting Cutting Edge is killing everything with minimal effort?
So getting Glad is killing everything with minimal effort?

When asking for classic, people always advocate for interesting immersive gameplay when in reality you simply want stronger boars.

I think Bellural sums it up well with his "meaningful work" video, should check that out. Achievements feel like quick highs with boredom to follow. Its the whole experience that should feel meaningful, when you get just stuff and achievements every here and there for not even realizing you did something they feel dull.

[Maudib]

Not to hijack the thread but something i've thought about is:

How do you deal with the balance?

You don't.

I am not being facetious here. You do NOT try and balance 8 classes. Back in Vanilla, the terms used were "Hard Counters". Of 8 classes maybe 2 were hard counters... two classes that could bust your butt. 2 classes you could butt theirs... and the rest cold kinda go either way.

PvP was never really intended to be a class on class 1v1 endeavor.

For example. Mage vs. Warrior. Mage is a hard counter to warrior due to slowing and kiting. If you gave Warriors more ability to counter those things... then Warrior would be a hard counter to mages. There is no middle ground.

The problem arose when people wanted to balance PvE damage output because... "Damage meters and stuffz" You cannot have all classes do similar damage, but have some who can mitigate more damage than others. There MUST be counters... high damage, low mitigation.... or low damage, high mitigation/healing... or medium damage, low mitigation but high mobility.


You cannot balance both PvE and PvP especially when one was never designed to be balanced, but countered.


If you want balanced 1v1... duel another of your class.