Dutch rape victim, 17, uses legal euthanasia to end life

[Tankabbot]

If that's all you can think of... Sure. Not at all what I was arguing for though.



Mental illness have little to do with "maturity". We are not talking about "omg, their ice cream machine broke I'm gonna kill myself".

The facts were showing that things didn't get better in her case.

In fairness she was 17 already. Shed be halfway through already if we had a life expectancy of 34

[LiiLoSNK]

Mental illness have little to do with "maturity". We are not talking about "omg, their ice cream machine broke I'm gonna kill myself".

The facts were showing that things didn't get better in her case.

What facts were showing? That a person who hadn't been given the time to leave adolescence was given parental consent to kill themselves? Your ice cream analogy really falls flat when I could literally use it to contradict your main point by rewinding the clock like 3 years.

[zorkuus]

The facts are that she was euthanized less that 4 years after getting raped. That amount of time is fucking nothing, especially not enough time to determine that someone is irrevocably broken.

Why do you care if somone is not irrevocably broken? Their life, their choise.

[Kumorii]

The facts are that she was euthanized less that 4 years after getting raped. That amount of time is fucking nothing, especially not enough time to determine that someone is irrevocably broken.

Oh no, I've mentioned earlier that I'm torn about this decision. Just that people making ignorant assertions like "she just needs to grow up" and "help guarantees a better life". When that in fact is not the case.

No one knows how long it would take for her to live a normal life. Maybe she gets it when she's 50-60, who knows. I personally wouldn't want to live my youth in misery until I'm old to then start to feel some resemblance of happiness. We can never know though.
As with most illnesses we hope we gets cured before it kills us, sometimes illnesses wins, like in this case.

I just find it ignorant when people essentially saying "you should live in misery because I don't want you to kill yourself" which I find is selfish.

[Tankabbot]

Why are people so upset at someone's personal choise?


Seems like an assumption to me.

And as they say "when in doubt, just pull the plug". It'd make for a great TV ad let me tell you

[LiiLoSNK]

No one knows how long it would take for her to live a normal life. Maybe she gets it when she's 50-60, who knows.

Literally nobody is talking about that. We're saying that her brain was in adolescence. She could have gained the ability to cope with her abuse. To gain the tools that come with years of your brain actually maturing to it's full state. They could've waited a few more years until she could think like a full grown adult.

She was robbed of that by idiots who think it's ok to up and kill some undeveloped brained 17 year olds.

[josykay]

Could be, not sure.

That could only be possible, if you aquire guardianship first. And doesnt help in this specific case, since Anorexia Nervosa is just a small aspect of the patient's suffering. And indeed, forcefeeding is a quite torturous, highly abusive treatment method.

[zorkuus]

Literally nobody is talking about that. We're saying that her brain was in adolescence. She could have gained the ability to cope with her abuse. To gain the tools that come with years of your brain actually maturing to it's full state.

She was robbed of that by idiots who think it's ok to up and kill some undeveloped brained 17 year olds.

Severe trauma can affect the rate at wich the mind matures (in the negative direction).

Because she was underage. Kids are not developed enough to make rational choices, least of all on whether to kill themselves or not.

Why is the age such an issue? What is the big difference in maturity between a 17y old and an 18y old?

[Tankabbot]

Oh no, I've mentioned earlier that I'm torn about this decision. Just that people making ignorant assertions like "she just needs to grow up" and "help guarantees a better life". When that in fact is not the case.

No one knows how long it would take for her to live a normal life. Maybe she gets it when she's 50-60, who knows. I personally wouldn't want to live my youth in misery until I'm old to then start to feel some resemblance of happiness. We can never know though.
As with most illnesses we hope we gets cured before it kills us, sometimes illnesses wins, like in this case.

I just find it ignorant when people essentially saying "you should live in misery because I don't want you to kill yourself" which I find is selfish.

And that's the thing. Making a decision based on the judgement of the victim of a rape of 17 years of age, 4 years after it happened is absurd. When a family member of mine got diagnosed with a brutal late stage cancer at 55, all that she wanted to do was finish it. She didn't and now 10 years later she got to see the birth of many more grandchildren, raise them, laugh with them and all that sort of stuff that, you know, living people do. If she had the chance she would have killed herself at the time, guaranteed.

[Kumorii]

What facts were showing? That a person who hadn't been given the time to leave adolescence was given parental consent to kill themselves? Your ice cream analogy really falls flat when I could literally use it to contradict your main point by rewinding the clock like 3 years.

Dunno, the fact that she has been going in and out of hospitals and having help from her parents in getting mental help but nothing seems to make anything better for her.
You know, the facts that made the doctor sign the papers to begin with. That no treatment had any real effect.

[LiiLoSNK]

Severe trauma can affect the rate at wich the mind matures (in the negative direction).

100% true. Do you have a way of testing it on a certain person without actually letting their minds develop?

I already obviously know that you don't have a way of doing this, but you see my point.

[insert random number]

Having known someone that was molested by her uncle go in and out of institutions for years on end only to end her own life down the line makes this a heartbreaking read. I assume the doctors and psychotherapists would not stand by such a course of action if they though there would be a way for this girl to have a reasonably normal life in the future. Nor would the decision be taken lightly.

[josykay]

I did. From the ripe age of 12 or so until I was 20 or so I was suffering from chronic Depersonalisation Disorder, which is basically 24/7 panic attack. I sure as fuck am grateful that nobody euthanized me back then, as I'm fully functioning adult today.

Nobody euthanized her against her will. She asked for that.

[horbindr]

i was going to say that a lot of rape victims can get back to "functional" in ~5 years orso with proper care, so euthanisia at 17 seems a bit hasty.

but if you have suffered two big incidents before you are even an adolescent, then yeah i can see that having a very very very lasting effect, so maybe it's for the best.

[Amerissis]

She was not euthanized. She commited suicide by not eating and drinking anymore. They just didn’t force treat her, which is her right, to deny treatment. This is just fake news to make euthanisia look bad.

[Cannibalus]

Netherlands rape? wonder who did that...I notice that doesn't mention any specific....details.... usually that means the people who did it are those lovely....ref...u.....

nvm, don't want to hurt any butterflies

Probably just seeking shelter inside of stahp clicking me .

[Slant]

This. Idiotic teens are stubborn enough to stand their grounds until the bitter end. Thank god that shit isn't legal in America.

Wow, yeah... that'll teach her parents. Now they can never ground her again! Kid: 1 - Parents: 0.

You really didn't think this through, did you?

[Kumorii]

And that's the thing. Making a decision based on the judgement of the victim of a rape of 17 years of age, 4 years after it happened is absurd. When a family member of mine got diagnosed with a brutal late stage cancer at 55, all that she wanted to do was finish it. She didn't and now 10 years later she got to see the birth of many more grandchildren, raise them, laugh with them and all that sort of stuff that, you know, living people do. If she had the chance she would have killed herself at the time, guaranteed.

Yes, and she didn't, she won over her illness. When it comes to life turnouts and combating mental issues yiu can't compare it person from person. Which is why we still have big issues in combating it.

You think every mental case is a success story? My main point is that neither of us can know. So the assertion that she should just stick with it because it guarantees she becomes happy in the future is just an assumption. It could also lead to more suffering.

Glad your family member become better. For myself i am now 10 years in the rabbit hole and I see nothing that indicates it will change yet. That's with help.

[LiiLoSNK]

Dunno, the fact that she has been going in and out of hospitals and having help from her parents in getting mental help but nothing seems to make anything better for her.
You know, the facts that made the doctor sign the papers to begin with. That no treatment had any real effect.

Oh ok well I guess if "treatment" was having no effect. I mean actual support and aging could've had a huge effect, but yea "treatment" didn't have an effect so let's kill her.

[josykay]

And someone that is underage should not be able to ask for it.

According to the law, she is able to. So, there is no point if arguing that.

Oh ok well I guess if "treatment" was having no effect. I mean actual support and aging could've had a huge effect, but yea "treatment" didn't have an effect so let's kill her.

She wanted to die. It wasn't some doctor, making the decission over her head. The doctor concluded merely that her arguments are sound ones.