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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Good observation. Ranged SV never actually promoted multidotting beyond Serpent Spread on clumped targets. But there were several attempts and the obvious solution was to make it a multidot spec after WoD. Even something as simple as a CDR on Black Arrow would have achieved that, and the result would be something that played very different to MM indeed.

    Hell, it already played pretty differently to MM. It's not just being more mobile. MM was more slow and methodical and accommodated satisfying long-range burst damage moments. SV was more fast-paced and focusede on steady, consistent damage, and yes: that was achieved through damage over time mechanics even if it wasn't multidotting. With ideal balance (basically HM and BRF in WoD) you had MM that was better for priority burst and SV was better for AoE and sustained patchwerk damage. These aren't superficial differences; they are critical, fundamental differences in how each spec is executed. That's just from the mechanics point of view, too. Aesthetically SV had a better focus on improved shots like explosives and poisons while MM was the expert sharpshooter who could bring down enemies from afar through pure sniping skill.

    You're overgeneralising and boiling down to a simple "SV was just a more mobile MM" which is dismissive and doesn't accurately represent the matter. Hunters certainly appreciated the difference between the specs because you had people developing preferences for one or the other back then. If SV were as expendable as everyone else pretends it was, we wouldn't still be here talking about it 3 years later.



    It wouldn't work. There's no outcome for this idea that adequately replaces what we had before Legion, and at worst it can actually harm MM.

    The efforts so far have been absolutely pitiful. Black Arrow is gone, Serpent Sting exists but in a severely diminished form with none of the unique passives ranged SV had, Lock and Load exists in a severely diminished form, Explosive Shot is similar to the old version in name and icon only. There is no interaction with traps whatsoever. You have baseline elements of the spec that don't fit the ranged SV identity.

    Let's say they actually tried to represent ranged SV in MM. Being able to replace Aimed Shot, the single most iconic and everlasting part of MM (hopefully you see the problem here), is a must because it simply doesn't fit the SV identity under any circumstance. You would then have to either make Lock and Load baseline or talented. Either way, you have to make it proc off auto attacks instead of DoTs (the iconic part of ranged SV, mind you) because you can't assume the Hunter will also take Serpent Sting and/or Black Arrow. That rules out ever having true multidotting for the spec unless you have a talent option for it which would quickly become mandatory. There would need to be some way to get Serpent Spread out, which would quickly become a mandatory talent choice and infringe on the current SV which currently has a talent option (Hydra's Bite) which is just a blatantly worse version of Serpent Spread. Rapid Fire doesn't fit Survival's identity so either we just live with it or make that one replaceable via a talent. Sniper training doesn't fit much either, especially without Aimed Shot, but I guess we just accept that too. Then there are things like Entrapment (root effect on traps), Trap Mastery (buff to all traps and a shorter CD), and Survivalist (heal after killing something) that would just never come back because they don't fit the new spec's identity.

    So you end up with this amalgamated mess of a spec with no core baseline identity and instead has to pick and choose its identity through two strictly distinct talent "lanes", therefore effectively having 2 "microspecs" in one with no talent options to explore either identity as all your talent choices went towards picking your identity in the first place, as well as little opportunity for further exploration in later expansions. You also expect the class design team to pull this off; the same team that has been unable to even perform basic maintenance changes for our current set of talents, many of which are unchanged and flawed from the BFA alpha.
    In stort, well said.

    I get why one would want more mobility from MM. For several reasons actually.

    But I would say that trying to merge current MM with another, mechanically different playstyle/concept, especially through talent options, is not a good way to do it.
    If one wants MM to be more mobile, then things should be added that are actually tied thematically and mechanically to it's current abilities.

    Keeping MMs burst-nature separate to that of the more consistent approach a spec such as RSV would have, is a good idea. One that should be implemented for us players to have that option/choice.
    Not to mention catering to the preferences of many players themselves. With aesthetics and with mechanics tied to specific playstyles.

  2. #142
    Man, reading that make me little sad to not seeing it happen.... I really loved ranged survival in wotlk, cata, and mop time.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    Man, reading that make me little sad to not seeing it happen.... I really loved ranged survival in wotlk, cata, and mop time.
    Not entirely sure if this was directed towards my original post containing the suggestions or if you're responding to someone else here in this topic.
    But either way, I agree. The most fun I ever had as a hunter was with the ranged SV spec.

    In my original suggestion-post I tried to include elements taken from all iterations of the spec that we've had in the past. (WotLK, Cata, MoP, WoD).
    Along with some extra stuff just so it's further highlighted what the main purpose of the spec is/would be in the modern game.

  4. #144
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Possibly. Could also not be played much because it falls behind other melee specs while they have much easier playstyle, much higher damage, and better utility.
    Let’s face it, Blizzard made it a convoluted spec to get even decent damage out of while being laughed at by other melee. I’ve supplied anecdotal evidence, but I’m pretty positive I’m not the only person who’s ever been told by a guild leader something akin to “sure, playing SV is fine, but if we already have too many (which guilds always do) or there’s a cap on melee for a fight we need you to change.” It got to where I only played it on farm and became a pain to carry 3 gear sets.
    To be fair, it was a pretty good spec in Legion (damage wise and a really engaging playstyle), but its also true that for many guilds, that's the worse spec cause there's already a lot of melee spec and having range classes, is sometimes better.

    It just bothers me that with Legion gone and the Artifact gone, some spec lost a lot, and then got small tweaks that try to fill the holes that the lack of Artifact left and are normally found... wanting
    Last edited by Maxilian; 2019-12-23 at 07:38 PM.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    To be fair, it was a pretty good spec in Legion (damage wise and a really engaging playstyle), but its also true that for many guilds, that's the worse spec cause there's already a lot of melee spec and having range classes, is sometimes better.

    It just bothers me that with Legion gone and the Artifact gone, some spec lost a lot, and then got small tweaks that try to fill the holes that the lack of Artifact left and are normally found... wanting
    While I personally, hold no love for MSV(neither version that we've had), I can certainly understand why many players like it/them(both versions).
    It's just plain sad how they went about it all, when implementing it. A melee spec for this class, as a base idea, wouldn't be like either of the 3 specs we had at the time. If they wanted us to have one, they should've made it a 4th addition from the start.

    But yeah, we are where we are now, best to just do that for RSV instead.

    I agree, what they did going from Legion into BfA and with the removal of artifacts, in combination with the underwhelming additions(or lack thereof) from BfA itself...it just doesn't feel all that fun anymore. Legion itself had some interesting ideas towards base concepts, though some of the decisions that led to the end results which we got, weren't the best ones(removal of RSV being one of those).


    Happy New Year btw everyone!
    Here's to hoping for some of the feedback given, that it will actually inspire changes going into Shadowlands.

  6. #146
    I still haven't gotten over this, and I keep checking forums to see if it's been fixed. I miss wow, but ranged Survival was the only class I really loved. It's absurd that they made a one spec a Ranger, another a Trapper, and the third a remote controlled pet spec. Hunters as I remember them are completely missing from the game now. Fuck you Ion!

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Vees View Post
    I still haven't gotten over this, and I keep checking forums to see if it's been fixed. I miss wow, but ranged Survival was the only class I really loved. It's absurd that they made a one spec a Ranger, another a Trapper, and the third a remote controlled pet spec. Hunters as I remember them are completely missing from the game now.

    There are many things I would like for to come back as well. RSV being one of those(top of the lost).

    We are closing in on the time during the year when the alpha for BfA had gone up so, who knows, hopefully it won't be too long now until we see something for Shadowlands as well.

    I'm just guessing/hoping here ofc. I just remember that I got on the alpha for BfA in february and that expansion came out in...september, if my memory serves me right. Would like it if Shadowlands had a longer testing phase than BfA did.

    But yeah, crossing fingers for some more in-depth stuff to come out soon and that they are for the better.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by F Rm View Post
    I'm just guessing/hoping here ofc. I just remember that I got on the alpha for BfA in february and that expansion came out in...september, if my memory serves me right. Would like it if Shadowlands had a longer testing phase than BfA did.
    BFA came out August 14th 2018

    Funnily enough the testing phase of BFA had a similar length to most expansions. I don't remember exactly when alpha started but it was something like 5-6 months from alpha to release, which is in line with every other expansion except for Legion which entered testing much earlier than normal.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    BFA came out August 14th 2018

    Funnily enough the testing phase of BFA had a similar length to most expansions. I don't remember exactly when alpha started but it was something like 5-6 months from alpha to release, which is in line with every other expansion except for Legion which entered testing much earlier than normal.
    I just double-checked as me not remembering bugged me a bit :/

    BfA started the alpha in early February and went into the beta in late April.

    You were right on the launch though that it was in August.

    I remembered February for the alpha as my launcher was updated to include it on February 15th(at least this was when I noticed that it had appeared).

    But yeah, anyway...

    I do still hope that we(those invited that is) have some proper time to test everything, and that feedback provided is taken into consideration.

    Systems such as the Soulbindings(talent thingies), Covenant abilities, along with Legendary item creation for Torghast, not to mention classes in general. Just to name a few...
    Last edited by F Rm; 2020-01-21 at 08:10 AM.

  10. #150
    Update/edit

    Added a 4th bonus trait/set bonus idea to the core concept/OP.

    (4) Quick Shot now triggers the passive effect "Exotic Munitions" when it hits an enemy target.
    The goal with this is to allow for some further player-specific choices to be made during combat.

    And since there are certain talent options that benefit/enhance the Exotic munitions-passive , this could potentially allow for even more variations in your preferred playstyle.

    The talent T.N.T. comes up as one example.

    With the above effect you could reliably manage 2 Explosive Shots(on multiple targets) at the same time.
    When combined with other effects and talents ofc.
    If this is something one might find interesting or useful.

    There is ofc more to it than this. Other impacts this bonus effect might have can be worked out from the OP.
    Last edited by F Rm; Today at 11:25 AM.

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