Elon Musk invents the tunnel

[Ahovv]

People who have done nothing sure love to shit on people who actually accomplish things.

[Muajin76]

It's the personality cult centered on the irrational and unfounded hate towards Elon Musk. For whatever reason, they cling to a need to hate him, regardless of his successes or failures.

The OP thread title is meant as a dig.

Ahh gotcha. Had me wondering for a bit there.
I don't love nor do i hate the guy. He's both innovated and aggorgant imo. Maybe he's just ahead of his time and misunderstood?

[KaPe]

Ahh gotcha. Had me wondering for a bit there.
I don't love nor do i hate the guy. He's both innovated and aggorgant imo. Maybe he's just ahead of his time and misunderstood?

It's one thing to be "ahead of time" and "misunderstood". It's another to claim that they will revolutionize public transport within next two years, at fraction of current costs, without any actual working proof of concept that goes beyond "tiny test track". If his claims were to be realistic, then the whole project would have to be nearing completion in at least a single major area of the world - except it isn't. If it was actually happening, there'd be no reason to hide it.

[Afrospinach]

What about it?

It was an idea. It was an idea they tested. It was an idea they tested that they found wanting. It was an idea put to the wayside. That idiot had fuck-all to do with the process, and he -- and apparently you -- is the type of moron who expects new technologies to just spontaneously manifest in complete perfection. Guess what, Einstein? That's not how reality works. Trying out new ideas is a GOOD FUCKING THING, not something worthy of ridicule.

Are you even remotely familiar with this project?

It is a very VERY soft target for ridicule. Not only does it fail on very basic concepts such as angling your panels toward the sun at different times of the year, they also had no way of getting particularly good coverage with the panels ever. This was because they could not just stop with the panels(which are not just a bad idea but a spectacular misuse of resources) but they had to integrate some crazy fantasy of turning the road into a self de icing christmas light show that would have had to have a huge transformation of road regulations to accommodate anywhere but a parking lot and then it would STILL be inefficient. Then you have construction and maintenance times. Ever what a road works team resurface a road? It takes them more time to de surface the road than it does to put the new stuff down. That is not going to happen when you have these individual tiles covering sensitive electronics.

But it just gets better and better. Not only did their demonstration not make to a road, it used more power than it produced which anyone armed with even a basic, basic grasp of solar PV efficiencies and mathematics can predict. But then it shorted out and caught fire, well that was after half the LEDs were not working to begin with whilst also being barely visible in the daytime.

It was a grossly incompetent project from the outset so before you start sticking your neck out and calling people morons do try and check that you yourself and not an ignorant fool.

You have to always weigh up the alternatives, that being just but a solar PV farm in the ample space available and sticking with normal roads, which btw, is not only functionally better in every way, but does not involve some potentially nation wide political battle over transforming what is an incredibly conservative institution in the US of A which administer road standards.

We have to try new things, so badly that if we cannot do something clever lets do something really stupid. That the level you are on?

This was all done with other people's money too. Good show. Should have just bought some turn key PV installations from China at ~1mil per mw at the time of their funding and everyone would be a. benefiting the environment right now b. getting a return on their investment.

[Noradin]

You're saying that, but what about the dozens of companies and countries that are not only signing on for these projects, but moving forward with billions of dollars in investment?

I get that the hyperloop could definitely help his enterprise (someone above mentioned that it would be very useful down the line for asteroid mining) but if there wasn't intrinsic worth to the project in and of itself, I would think not many people/places would be gearing up for their own hyperloops.

There is intrinsic worth to the project in and of itself, as I said: The HYPE. That alone is worth a lot of money to some people.
You ask why people spend money on this? They think like you do, "somebody must have thought of this otherwise why would they all spend all this money on it" or "when the hype really takes off I'll pull out and make millions in profits just before the crash".

It's not like I'm interested in the economic side of this, there is always somebody wasting money on something for grandstanding in this world.
I'm interested in the technological side and my knowledge in science tell me this is not just a bad idea. It is a mountain of bad ideas all smashed together.

[Varitok]

People conveniently ignoring his companies revolutionizing Electric cars and making space flight affordable. Like him or hate him, He's helped propel humanity forward in a very meaningful way.

[Noradin]

It was an idea. It was an idea they tested. It was an idea they tested that they found wanting. It was an idea put to the wayside.

The question is why did they even spend money testing it?
Because they make profit by pretending.
It was another idea anyone designing solar panels could have told them from the start was not viable.

Streets are one of the worst places to put solar panels, because solar panels require several of them to be working in sequence to be viable, and not too many in parallel.
Streets are used to be occupied by objects that move some of the time. They acquire dirt, they get stepped on.
Whenever one of those cells goes dark the whole segment does. Anything between and the sun is a problem.

Now, and this is where I suspect the Hyperloop idea came from, if they were to install them on a roof over the streets instead... then it would be just unneccessarily costly compared to putting them on already existing roofs that serve some other purpose. (Like being part of a tube...)

[Tom007p]

I can say without a doubt in my mind that Elon Musk is more accomplished and successful then everybody on this form combined, with that said haters gonna hate.

[Noradin]

People conveniently ignoring his companies revolutionizing Electric cars and making space flight affordable. Like him or hate him, He's helped propel humanity forward in a very meaningful way.

I wasn't aware that the hyperloop was meant to allow electric cars become space-flight worthy.

[Burgerberg]

I can say without a doubt in my mind that Elon Musk is more accomplished and successful then everybody on this form combined, with that said haters gonna hate.

So what? Because he's rich and successful he's immune to criticism?

[cubby]

Read what you just wrote. Carefully, a few times atleast. Let me know when you're starting to see what's wrong with your comment.

Just remember, I'm the one listing facts and citations to my points. You're the ones harping on Musk's "failures" without data or other objective material. When you're ready to have an adult conversation on this topic, we'll be here.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

The question is why did they even spend money testing it?
Because they make profit by pretending.

Because someone in a position to fund it thought it was an idea worth investigating. And it was. Yes, it had obvious faults, but you don't know if you can actually overcome them unless you actually fucking try. You know, as opposed to whining on a random outdated gaming forum acting like you're some kind of scientific/business genius. Which you're not, by the way. Just in case that was too hard for you to figure out. (Hint: If you sit around whining and bitching for 13,104 posts on a random outdated gaming forum, you're not anyone worth anything anywhere.)

[cubby]

The dude who created the video isn't some crackpot, he's a qualified scientist. There is real "data" in the numbers he calculates there, basically eviscerating the concept. I don't know what more you want, because you're just completely ignoring whatever evidence doesn't suit your pretty picture.

So the youtube "debunker" is somehow miles ahead of the multiple companies and countries moving forward with this tech and projects? That's the hill you want to die on?

"One" country is not many. And lets not forget the fact that it isn't a Musk company, they're not building what essentially is a vacuum chamber hundreds of miles long. If you think it's exactly the same thing Musk set out to do, then I don't really know what to say apart from facepalm.

Are you even listening to yourself. How many companies and countries would I have to list in order to prove your little parents-basement-scientist wrong? I get that maybe you're emotionally involved in this argument now, and admitting you're wrong won't be easy, but if you took a step back and looked at the objective evidence, you'd slap yourself on the forehead.

What are the credentials of Thunderbutt anyway? Do you, right now, know his CV? Or will you have to go back and check, because he tells you what you want rather than what is true, and you really don't know his actual credentials as a scientist? Of course he's using some math, but you don't know if the math he's using is correct, and neither do I. What I do know, is that many, many others, with fantastic credentials, have vetted the math on the hyperloop (or figured it out for themselves) and are moving forward.

And again - somehow Thunderbutt-the-Youtube-"scientist" has found math that "proves" hyperloop won't work, and somehow no one else has, including all the people putting vast sums of money and resources into ongoing projects on multiple continents.

If you have evidence, papers or articles, that show the math or science behind the hyperloop doesn't work or can't work, I'm all ears. But a single youtube video will never, ever suffice. You be laughing your ass off if our roles were reversed.

SpaceX's success in other areas isn't relevant to the fact that Musk was making empty promises that are not grounded in reality.

Liar. You said in initiating this dialogue with me:

Elon Musk is a hype merchant.

And he's not. Musk is a proven CEO with multiple successes under his belt. Quite the opposite of what you claim.

What industries? Do you reckon thousands of people are working on the Hyperloop? Okay... and how many of them are not cleaners/admin staff/construction workers. How many of them are actual engineers with degrees? Designers? City planners? I mean, gosh, if you're going to brag about a concept being viable just because people work for it, then I can say homeopathy is legit because tens of thousands work in that industry.

Aren't you embarrassed yet by this shitshow argumentation? I would be if I were you. I found three countries moving forward with hyperloop project in a 30 second google search. And now you're making that fucked up argument above. Jesus.

You talk about this as if there's multiple construction projects happening right now, when all you have given is one city, on a limited scale where the system is not even the same. Heck, it's a completely different company. Come back to me when Musk's idea sprouts up suddenly in LA, NYC, Sydney, London, etc.

There are. I linked them. You know what's really odd? You don't have any evidence to back up your claims. Weird, isn't it. Let me know when you want to join the adult conversation, where we use objective proof rather than emotional haters-gonna-hate feels.

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It's "not evidence" because it debunks the stupid shit you've been saying in this thread using math.

Why wouldn't it be? There's many academic institutions who have YouTube pages, for example a good one is Periodic Videos. If there was a fact relating to chemistry I wanted to use as evidence, I could go there and link a video with the professor explaining scientific concepts from an actual university. But according to you it's not viable, because you have your head stubbornly stuck up your ass about a specific issue. No one's linking conspiracy videos, or from some person with no qualifications.

Show me something outside of youtube. Or show me a youtube from an academic institution. Some guy in a basement who's CV no one seems to know using math that hasn't been peer reviewed doesn't count for shit as evidence.

Remember - I have multiple countries and companies moving forward with these projects. Now. They are doing it, and pouring billions of dollars of investment into them. You have some guy in a video saying they are all wrong.

Who would you believe?

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Because someone in a position to fund it thought it was an idea worth investigating. And it was. Yes, it had obvious faults, but you don't know if you can actually overcome them unless you actually fucking try. You know, as opposed to whining on a random outdated gaming forum acting like you're some kind of scientific/business genius. Which you're not, by the way. Just in case that was too hard for you to figure out. (Hint: If you sit around whining and bitching for 13,104 posts on a random outdated gaming forum, you're not anyone worth anything anywhere.)

You gotta love these hater personality cults that just have to prove somehow Musk isn't right his fourth go around on a major idea. I agree with what you said above completely.

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Ahh gotcha. Had me wondering for a bit there.
I don't love nor do i hate the guy. He's both innovated and aggorgant imo. Maybe he's just ahead of his time and misunderstood?

Yeah, the peeps I'm mostly responding to now are just making the most ridiculous and embarrassing arguments, based solely on their personality cult of needing to hate him, regardless of objective facts.

And yeah, Elon is both arrogant and innovative. He's also probably an asshole - most successful tech CEO's are. But he also has some unprecedented successes under his belt.

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People conveniently ignoring his companies revolutionizing Electric cars and making space flight affordable. Like him or hate him, He's helped propel humanity forward in a very meaningful way.

Exactly. And precisely. Hate him all you want, but the guy is revolutionizing multiple areas of industries.

[Forogil]

I listed three above where construction is actually underway. I found them on the first page of a google search. Here: They are currently under construction in at least One (CA) Two (France) Three (Abu Dai). I can find more if you'd like. I'm curious why you didn't seem them.

The first is not a link - and if they actually were building an actual track in California between LA and SF I would imagine people noticing.

The second is a short test-track and capsule for it; not an actual transportation solution.

The third is not yet under construction - since it was scheduled to start in 2019Q3. (and according to another poster not even a hyperloop).

That's basically 0 proof. But keep up the good work - something seems to be convincing middle eastern sheiks to invest.

[cubby]

The first is not a link - and if they actually were building an actual track in California between LA and SF I would imagine people noticing.

The second is a short test-track and capsule for it; not an actual transportation solution.

The third is not yet under construction - since it was scheduled to start in 2019Q3. (and according to another poster not even a hyperloop).

That's basically 0 proof. But keep up the good work - something seems to be convincing middle eastern sheiks to invest.

So just your word vs my links? Love it. Do you make all your points without citations? Remember - I'm the only one backing my points up with links. When you're ready for the adult conversation, we'll be here waiting.

[Forogil]

So just your word vs my links?

No, your links against your word.

Do you make all your points without citations?

The citations were given, I just looked at them.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/15/1...t-track-france
"World’s third hyperloop test track is now under construction."
It also claims that 320m would be completed in 2018 and 1km will be done in 2019.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/24492/...-track-in-2019
"Construction is set to begin in the third quarter of 2019."

[Gaaz]

Ok, I have to say that's a pretty reasonable statement. While I don't know your pipeline knowledge, the way you phrased it makes me believe you. And I have found details bereft of scientific information of late - which is concerning. However, we are still seeing more and more countries/companies signing on for these projects. Which is why you said:



I listed three above where construction is actually underway. I found them on the first page of a google search. Here: They are currently under construction in at least One (CA) Two (France) Three (Abu Dai). I can find more if you'd like. I'm curious why you didn't seem them.




I'm not sure that the update of satellite imagery is as frequent as you presume. Regardless, that isn't the best information source, as you'd need to address of where they were starting construction to see it in the first place. I'm linking articles that show construction happening. Show me something where it was canceled. Or where people are saying the tech won't work, "fuck you" Elon Musk.

I have seen the links you provided. It is just there was nothing in them to deduce the level of investments. Government of Dubai more likely than not just donates territory for the construction. It will be in the desert for most of the way, as there is basically nothing between the airport and the whatsitsname settlement according to maps. This is Branson's project if I am not mistaken.
The Musk's one is the French track, which is going to be his 3rd. Again, we have no idea about investments into it, but we do know that Musk withdrew 100 million from Space X to fund Hyperloop. I would bet that it is his money only that move the project, judging from the fact that he boasted that the second test track cost him only 10 million (if I remember correctly). And indeed, it is well within expectations to build another overland track for 100 million. The problem - you can not build an underground test track with that amount. And it is vital to do so if you want to create a long vacuum system. Remember, each mile of the track will expand and contract by almost 3 feet due to daily temperature changes alone. You can not fix it to pylons because of that. This is also why Branson's track is being shown just laying on rubber cushions on top of the pylons and secured by loose steel ropes, not welded in place. Therefore, my (limited) scientific knowlege on the subject tells me that this is just going to be another wasted effort, lightyears away from Musk's promises. Best case scenario is that it is going to be a normal pressure system, without any vacuum systems whatsoever, moving at turtle speeds relatively speaking. I mean, they can not really test a passenger capsule even on a 10 km track anyway, let alone a 320m one. Simply because you can not stress proof the system if it is running for less than a minute even if we halve Musk's speed promises and go for a 300mph limit. And a 320m track is what? A 2 second run? Ok, make it 10 seconds at 150mph if you account for acceleration and deceleration at 1g (which is like going 0-60 in less than 3 seconds in terms of forces on your body). The fact that tubes that were shown in the video are way too thin to be installed underground, hold a vacuum and be able to resist forces from a multi ton capsule moving through them at insane speeds just makes my suspicions stronger.
There are no articles that show that the construction has been cancelled. Just as there are no articles that show that the construction is continuing. In fact, there are no articles in the last 6 months period! This is true for any of the 8 companies that engage in Hyperloop construction, as well as Branson's and Musk's projects.
As to people who say that the tech will not work, they are a dime a dozen, including some of the more prominent names. I know that Thunderfoot is not an authority to you, even though the guy is actually a working scientist in physics, nuclear and chemistry fields. But here are the examples of others:

"From the science point of view, he's done it the wrong way"
Hyperloop, it is for now just another science-fiction dream. It's completely impractical."
- Richard Muller, a physics professor at the UC Berkeley

"The high-level concept doesn't violate any fundamental laws of physics, but I'm not sure whether the details work."
- John Hansman, a professor of aeronautics and astronautics at MIT.

"The hyperloop is something absolutely novel—it’s worth being excited about. But that excitement should be tempered with the realities that this is not tangible technology at this point."
- Adie Tomer, metropolitan infrastructure expert at Brookings Institution.

[cubby]

No, your links against your word.


The citations were given, I just looked at them.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/15/1...t-track-france
"World’s third hyperloop test track is now under construction."
It also claims that 320m would be completed in 2018 and 1km will be done in 2019.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/24492/...-track-in-2019
"Construction is set to begin in the third quarter of 2019."

I guess you're done with any notion of good faith posting from you. If you have sources contradicting those links indicating that projects are under way, let me know. Likewise with the math.

So far all you've done is basically wag your tongue and shitpost past legitimate information. Remember, you're still not posting any of your own links.

[Burgerberg]

Show me something outside of youtube. Or show me a youtube from an academic institution. Some guy in a basement who's CV no one seems to know using math that hasn't been peer reviewed doesn't count for shit as evidence.

Why should I have to? Because you don't agree with the source as it's inconvenient to you? This is not an academic thesis or research paper. That one debunking video is enough, and if you bothered to watch it you'll see why. Don't feign ignorance because a simple search tells you who he (Phil Mason) is. The guy holds a PhD in chemistry from the University of Brimmingham. Someone who uses math and physics concepts in their day to day profession. He's not some random dumbass with no education like you're pretending to allude to.

Remember - I have multiple countries and companies moving forward with these projects. Now. They are doing it, and pouring billions of dollars of investment into them. You have some guy in a video saying they are all wrong.

Who would you believe?

There are ZERO countries who are building a vacuum chamber that's hundreds of miles long for ultra-speed transportation.

ZERO.

Do you even fucking know what concept thunderf00t is actually attacking here? Because it seems like that you don't.

[cubby]

Here is the Google search I'm using to bring up the articles I'm posting to back up my claims. Please feel free to either sift through those and find contrary data or do your own search.

I'm really at a loss as to why I continue to provide new information to you but the rest of your lot feels it unnecessary to do the same.

The problem - you can not build an underground test track with that amount.

Where is your data or information or any source for that statement? Why do you think it's ok to require me to provide proof and yet you don't have to do any?

Remember, each mile of the track will expand and contract by almost 3 feet due to daily temperature changes alone.

Citation needed.

I mean, they can not really test a passenger capsule even on a 10 km track anyway, let alone a 320m one. Simply because you can not stress proof the system if it is running for less than a minute even if we halve Musk's speed promises and go for a 300mph limit. And a 320m track is what? A 2 second run? Ok, make it 10 seconds at 150mph if you account for acceleration and deceleration at 1g (which is like going 0-60 in less than 3 seconds in terms of forces on your body). The fact that tubes that were shown in the video are way too thin to be installed underground, hold a vacuum and be able to resist forces from a multi ton capsule moving through them at insane speeds just makes my suspicions stronger.

Citation needed.

Where are you getting this information about thickness requirements? You're making all these assertions without anything to back them up. Would you accept that kind of thing from me?

There are no articles that show that the construction has been cancelled.

I wonder why....

Edit: there actually are articles showing cancellation of some hyperloop construction projects.

Just as there are no articles that show that the construction is continuing.

There are plenty. I've linked some. More are out there. Do you really want me to link the google search I did?

In fact, there are no articles in the last 6 months period! This is true for any of the 8 companies that engage in Hyperloop construction, as well as Branson's and Musk's projects.

Sure there are.

As to people who say that the tech will not work, they are a dime a dozen, including some of the more prominent names. I know that Thunderfoot is not an authority to you, even though the guy is actually a working scientist in physics, nuclear and chemistry fields. But here are the examples of others:

Then link them. Find me them. You keep making this claim, and yet you can't back it up. All I've ever asked was that you back your claim up with something outside a youtube poster.

Btw, have you found Thunderbutt's CV yet? What are his credentials?

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Why should I have to? Because you don't agree with the source as it's inconvenient to you? This is not an academic thesis or research paper. That one debunking video is enough, and if you bothered to watch it you'll see why. Don't feign ignorance because a simple search tells you who he (Phil Mason) is. The guy holds a PhD in chemistry from the University of Brimmingham. Someone who uses math and physics concepts in their day to day profession. He's not some random dumbass with no education like you're pretending to allude to.

No surprise that's your answer. Your point is so blindingly obvious but only one guy agrees. If it's so obvious that it won't work, why can't you prove your point with more than one citation?

There are ZERO countries who are building a vacuum chamber that's hundreds of miles long for ultra-speed transportation.

ZERO.

All evidence to the contrary. Remember, I'm linking you articles and cites and facts. You're just posting out of your ass at this point. So far none of you people in the hate-personality-cult have posted a single item backing your claims.

ZERO.

Do you even fucking know what concept thunderf00t is actually attacking here? Because it seems like that you don't.

Again - he's attacking something that more than a dozen countries and companies are moving forward with. He somehow, magically, found the Achilles' heel to all hyperloop technology. That's your argument?