Blame twitch.tv and streamers for WoW's design failures

[sam86]

No sir. Blame Ion... and the other lead developers before him. They alone have made the decisions that have turned WoW into an ARPG.

wow is far more lottery than rpg, rpg has random, wow has chance to drop best gear 0.001%

[Greevir]

Personally, I blame the players. It's their fault the game is in the state it's in.

[Doffen]

Hating on streamers is as trendy right now as "Keanu is a nice guy" memes.

But he is a nice guy though!

[kaminaris]

Another dumb thread...
People seem to forget how much RNG was in Legion (far worse than its now cause TF was uncapped + it had RNG legendaries).

WoW is in pretty good shape if not for general lack of content.
Swings are extreme, yes I agree but its not like it hasn't been worse it the past (yes it was way worse).

We had like over a year before WoD came out and there wasn't anything to do in MoP already.
We had ultra farming and uber RNG in Legion.
We got nothing to do in WoD.

And yet people claim wow is in worst shape now

Also who cares about random garbage 400 casuals can get from warfronts... Lets be real, if you want to have power you gotta commit to some higher difficulty contents.
Nothing has changed in this aspect.

[buffolone]

Another dumb thread...
People seem to forget how much RNG was in Legion (far worse than its now cause TF was uncapped + it had RNG legendaries).

WoW is in pretty good shape if not for general lack of content.
Swings are extreme, yes I agree but its not like it hasn't been worse it the past (yes it was way worse).

We had like over a year before WoD came out and there wasn't anything to do in MoP already.
We had ultra farming and uber RNG in Legion.
We got nothing to do in WoD.

And yet people claim wow is in worst shape now

Also who cares about random garbage 400 casuals can get from warfronts... Lets be real, if you want to have power you gotta commit to some higher difficulty contents.
Nothing has changed in this aspect.

Bravo sir. Well said.

[Vampyr78]

Argument that now game caters to casuals doesn't hold up. It was always Blizzard's goal to make WoW a game for casuals. It grew so big because it was casual friendly. As for what led the game to the current state, well they listened to much to the playerbase and this resulted in implementing ceratin things they can't get rid of now. That's why they look for some ways to bring some more old school things back into to game like no flying for half of an expansion, having to walk to the entrace of a dungeon if you want to do it on mythic, RNG to make it harder to get best in slot.

[chronia]

But worst of all? Twitch.tv breeds rabid fanboy culture and it seeps into the actual game. When was the last time you played a raid or a m+ without some 12 year old kid spamming "POGGERS OMEGALUL YIKES SCUFFED" all run long?

I have actually never seen this happen at all.

Streamers stream what people want to see... which is why Classic has WAY outperformed BfA in viewers.

This doesn't say alot yet imho, lets see how this is in a year or 2-3, for now its logical WoW Classic is getting a rather nice and large viewership since its the hot "new" thing. The big question is if the viewership will stick long term and if ppl like Asmongold / Soda will stick to WoW Classic or will switch up games again.

No sir. Blame Ion... and the other lead developers before him. They alone have made the decisions that have turned WoW into an ARPG.

the biggest blame imho lies with the players ourselves, since a lot of these changes were actually asked for by players.

[McNeil]

I never found WoW to be a good streaming game. And I bet that most people who do watch only come for the personalities like Sodapoppin and Asmongold, who people will watch in any game they play. As for WoW's design failures, they have been apparent long before Twitch even became a thing. You could tell from most TBC dungeons that they could easily be made for mythic+ where they started to have harder and more linear designs.

[lollerlaban]

They took a game, that required a bit of planning, A LOT of time to accomplish things, had value in professions, and changed it to a game that caters to kids and casuals. THAT's what broke WoW.

Are you talking about retail or classic? Because both of them did the same thing you know.

[Soon-TM]

While I may share the OP's feelings, the process he's describing began long before YT/Twitch were even a thing. True, at some point Blizzard got the MUH EZPURTZ hard-on, which hastened the whole thing.

I'd very much prefer to have Blizz stop trying to hamfist the eSports meme in WoW. They have two entire franchises for that ffs.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So you 're saying that:

Twitch caused Blizz to start designing raids/M+ that way so Twitch could stream WoW content?

OR ... Blizz started designing their content that way so they could get their game up on Twitch ?

[Lawlhero]

Isn't the streamers fault, its the people who were too lazy to join a guild, and cried that they couldn't experience the raiding content, or the people who thought questing was too hard not having their hand held, or the people who complained about not having enough loot in the game. Its' the Devs fault for wanting to constantly make the player feel rewarded, and ending up making the players feel never rewarded. I understand you're jealous of people who are doing their dream job making money from playing world of warcraft, but it doesn't mean that you have to blame them for everything.

[Bigbazz]

Thanks for vomiting all over my screen.

[Audrenalyn]

I mean Cdew said on stream a while ago "the best part of Bfa...exiting the game" Hes one of their esports figures, a pretty loved one at that. He could shill for them, but he openly dumpsters on the current game, so I dont know who you THINK they are building the game for but it sure as hell isnt them.

This. Most streamers/youtubers I pay attention to actively shit on the current game.

[Alvito]

This is like blaming the person a spouse cheated with instead of the spouse.

[kaminaris]

This. Most streamers/youtubers I pay attention to actively shit on the current game.

DUH! Because all the cool kids do it so do I.
Why even bother comparing pros and cons when you can just rant about something that was actually FIXED compared to previous expansions. Like RNG.

[Isilarya]

DUH! Because all the cool kids do it so do I.
Why even bother comparing pros and cons when you can just rant about something that was actually FIXED compared to previous expansions. Like RNG.

You think RNG is fixed. You are being serious?

[Satelliteyears0o]

When most of the streamers are blaming Blizzard for turning such a beloved game into what is now BfA? Even very apparent shills like Bellular have finally had to speak out against just how bad the game has gotten. Even when he tries to bring up something positive, you see it through gritting teeth.

Streamers stream what people want to see... which is why Classic has WAY outperformed BfA in viewers.

No sir. Blame Ion... and the other lead developers before him. They alone have made the decisions that have turned WoW into an ARPG.

And BFA release boasted the highest viewer numbers for wow ever, so whats ur point?

[justandulas]

Considering that the streamers are open and honest that they hate the direction of wow in recent years... it’s probably everyone BUT them

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DUH! Because all the cool kids do it so do I.
Why even bother comparing pros and cons when you can just rant about something that was actually FIXED compared to previous expansions. Like RNG.

Are you on drugs? Did you say rng was fixed?!

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And BFA release boasted the highest viewer numbers for wow ever, so whats ur point?

Bfa stream also died off faster than any other wow content. Don’t forget that.

It also is constantly being embarrassed by things like the big MDI tournament drawing a fraction of viewers as a beta version of ab or sm from classic. It’s a joke

Bfa is undoubtedly the low point in wows history.

Don’t forget that wod had Twice the MAU as bfa

[Has lost its way]

WoW's design failures came from people who were not happy with what they had. There is a reason why classic and tbc are seen as loaded with content while later entries feel increasingly thread bare.

WoW was best when it was a linear game but people unable or unwilling to get better or to put aside time to play complained and so here we are with a game where the idea way to gear is to wait till the last patch do a few hours of warfronts and be heroic raid geared.