I have some hope now where there was none

[Yes but actually no]

Ions video on class design


I am delighted to see them actually finally publicly acknowledge they also are not happy with the state of classes, i won't get ahead of myself in hoping for miracles in 9.0 because ultimately i cannot see them scrapping voidform or anything that would make me enjoy my class again, however the fact they are now in agreement and openly talking about making classes actual classes again and specs being actual specialisations of a class rather than a "mini class" does give me hope.

I am slightly worried however that blizzard being blizzard these days will fail hard on this and we will see a big imbalance of some classes or specs seeing total revamps or return of much needed abilities that were removed while others have to endure another spriest shaman "that's gonna have to wait for a patch new expansion" fiasco like bfa.

I just cannot see them doing what needs done for a fair amount of classes (at least the ones i used to enjoy playing before the garbage of legion and bfa) that to be brutally honest require around 2/3 or more of their talent tree to actually go back to being baseline to make the class feel good. Unless they said fuck it at the start of BFA and decided on this back then so they are currently working on that right now (which could explain the lack of changes we normally see) and it is their top priority to overhaul every class and spec to bring them back to enjoyment levels we haven't saw for a number of years i cannot see them being able to achieve it before time for next expansion. It coming from Ion just feels like hollow lawyer marketing talk to keep people from losing all interest entirely.

But still, there is now hope where there was once none.

[Sluvs]

I was really impressed that they did this. And also I am pretty happy that they look like they are taking lessons from classic's success. This is some pretty good shit.

[Elias01]

I was really impressed that they did this. And also I am pretty happy that they look like they are taking lessons from classic's success. This is some pretty good shit.

No they didnt? This video was just justification of current broken systema. Only thing they took from classic are essences as exclusive power reward for doing high end content. But those will be removed or Blizzard will cave in as entilted casual will demand acess to all essences dor free becouse it isnt fair to be forced to do pvp content for essences right?

[Sluvs]

They literally said the opposite, they also said how they are tackling class design from now on and dialling back a little on the changes on recent years. They also cited Classic as a source of inspiration and they also mentioned the RPG part a lot. I mean, you got it all backwards.

[ManiaCCC]

They literally said the opposite, they also said how they are tackling class design from now on and dialling back a little on the changes on recent years. They also cited Classic as a source of inspiration and they also mentioned the RPG part a lot. I mean, you got it all backwards.

I am just not sure what they are trying to do, because they are afraid to put warrior stances back because "it would confuse players". This is philosophy which is and always will hold them beck. If they think they will improve class identities just by giving fire mages frostbolt, they are really not listening enough.

[vertigo12]

So Ion finally gave the GO signal. Thanks WoW dev't team! Let's see Dynamic Talent a reality!

[BlueRemedy]

Inc bait and switch, 2020 version

[Unholyground]

No they didnt? This video was just justification of current broken systema. Only thing they took from classic are essences as exclusive power reward for doing high end content. But those will be removed or Blizzard will cave in as entilted casual will demand acess to all essences dor free becouse it isnt fair to be forced to do pvp content for essences right?

To be fair, PvP is and always has been an afterthought in WoW until this expansion kind of/aside from a few bones thrown here and there each expansion.

[Wangming]

Well of course they are trying to do it right. Pretty sure there never was a meeting where they said: Hey guys, let's fuck up the game completely!

They always tried to do it right. And yet they have been failing worse and worse since Pandaria (when it comes to class design). Untill 9.0 beta comes, I will believe fuck all what Ion and his friends say.

[matrix123mko]

I totally disagree. If they want specs to be the same, just for sake of having more buttons to click, then they will break class design even more.

[crono14]

They need to stop designing the game to the lowest common denominator. If a warrior can't figure out he can't use an ability in a certain stance, then he is an idiot. Design the game with fun in mind, and not dumbing it down for the idiots. Shit like metamorphosis, soul swap, stances, and other things that gave classes identities and thematically individual is fun and why people enjoy playing their characters and classes. Casters have become really what color of magic ball you throw now, and lost a lot of the individuality. Bring back class quest lines like the green fire quest for other classes and give players things to do that isn't IE's and WF's and things that just feel like a chore to go do.
Bring back talent trees as well to further enhance this individuality so that for example two fire mages might be the same spec but play very differently with focusing on different things.

Regardless, this is all talk until actual changes are announced and made. I won't believe anything he says until they actually do something about it. BFA is a dumpster fire for the number 1 reason that my class is boring and not fun to play. This makes anything and everything they possibly add to the game automatically boring because my way on engaging with said content is boring.

[Nyel]

It's quite an easy task on paper what they have to do for 9.0 but for Blizzard it will be a tremendous amount of work:

MoP/WoD class design + Legion class fantasy + a brand new, enticing and fresh progression system akin to talents / glyphs that matter as much as usual talents

[Kralljin]

Just screams "Let's bring back that "one playstyle or gtfo"" mentality of the old talent trees.

I am just not sure what they are trying to do, because they are afraid to put warrior stances back because "it would confuse players".

To be honest, Warrior Stances rank pretty high in the list of "things that got changed each expansion" until their removal.

Outside of PvP and maybe leveling, i fail to see their appeal.
If you're Dps, you sit in Berserker Stance, if you're tank, you sit in Def Stance.

Unless Blizzard gives you some sort additional incentive to use Battle Stance, you're not going to use it.
If that incentive happens to be a single ability, you just bring back Cata Arms Warrior keybinding all of their abilities with a /cast Berserker Stance macro.

Getting Warrior stances to live up to their original inception in the primarily PvE focused game such as WoW is not that easy.

[Schmilblick]

People still fall for such baits ? damn it guys...

[Rogalicus]

They butchered specs in 7.0, then butchered again in 8.0, then they promise to maybe change something for good in 9.0. That's 4 full years of atrocious class design and people still pay money to play this?

[owbu]

I guess I would do similiar stuff, if I was tasked to reinvent 30 specs every 2 years AND make them fun, but these interchangegable "we are now going to make classes/specs/players matter more!" philosophy talks are getting a bit boring.

8.2 looks good, though. And I guess it doesn't really matter if Ion sounds like a broken record, if he is also making a fun game.

[Magicon]

Why the hell does he tell the whole storyline on how we get there....... Can these devs stop telling everything before release.

[ManiaCCC]

Just screams "Let's bring back that "one playstyle or gtfo"" mentality of the old talent trees.



To be honest, Warrior Stances rank pretty high in the list of "things that got changed each expansion" until their removal.

Outside of PvP and maybe leveling, i fail to see their appeal.

As you said mostly PvP and when leveling was actually difficult at times, proper stance dancing could save you from death and you felt like superstar. In PvP, stance dancing was difference between good and great warrior.

I was also playing tank warrior when aggro was a thing (and stances) and even here, sometimes when things went awry, that second where you think about options, how much rage you will have after switching to zerg stance and intercept and you pulled it perfectly and your group was able to stabilize the situation, you was like "Thank me later guys" .. It just felt good. I honestly miss all these things, which actually promoted some complexity and skill.

To be fair, designing everything just around mindless PvE rotations lead us exactly, where we are now so..

[vertigo12]

They butchered specs in 7.0, then butchered again in 8.0, then they promise to maybe change something for good in 9.0. That's 4 full years of atrocious class design and people still pay money to play this?

Exactly the same number of years per Talent system's shelf life as part of my discourse in my 9.0 Dynamic Talent thread.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I can totally see Blizz over-correcting on this, though. And suddenly in 9.0 we're back to Classic where if you were a hybrid class you'd better get ready to heal, heal, and, you guessed it, heal because specs are now marginalized and hybrids are once again subject to the infamous "hybrid tax."