R.IO is useless to me, I want to know something else.

[Trend]

When I make my groups for the weekly 10 I don't actually look for people that are good, I mean I don't invite complete low ilvl dudes, but to me the most important thing when inviting someone is knowing whether he/she leaves the run or not. I can deal with a 1 hour run as long as I get my M10 done. So in that regard R.IO is pretty pointless for me. In fact, the higher the score the more likely it seems to be associated with the probability to leave the group after a wipe. I wish we would have an addon that shows who leaves how often. I would only invite people that leave less than 10% of the time.

How do you wipe in a 10? Even if you're really bad personally, if you put together a decent group you should fly through every 10. Yeah you're going to have people leaving if your run is a walking catastrophe.

Personally I use raider.io so I can easily put together a group that doesn't suck. I think that's the key.

[horbindr]

Why should people be penalized for not wanting to stay in hot garbage groups?

thats no different than asking why people should be penalized for having a low score.

you can argue it's unfair and stuff, but at the end of the day people want successful runs.

now i personally never really had any issue with people leaving at all, but if it for w/e reason was a prevalent issue, you can bet these sites would find a way to start tracking it.

kinda agree with OP tbh, above a certian minimum in score/skill/gear/"objective metrics", i'd much rather have a "nice" person then someone who might leave or is rude or w/e. but the karma features on that kind of site never really took off.

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Unfortunately my experience has been different. I have invited players to my groups that stated (weekly run, no leavers) and in the end someone left regardless.

personally, "weekly run, no leavers" sounds elitist as fuck to me and i wouldn't join those runs. just like raid groups with stuff like "1 mistake = kick" in the description.

but i join "chill run, just for weekly, don't care about timer" groups regularly cause that sounds more genuine to me.

met some nice people that way a few weeks back, first run was with crappy affixes, 3 370 ilvl characters and it literally took 200 deaths to do the dungeon, couple weeks later we did one in time and they were super excited. it was really cool cause in my main raids it's all people that have been killing stuff for a decade so you just don't get that kind of excitement anymore.

oh and also: oftentimes people don't read the description for w/e reason, so it's always a good idea to confirm in chat if you want to do something non standard.

[Ange]

but the karma features on that kind of site never really took off.

I think the main issue with KARMA was LEGION. M+ in legion was not a full gearing path like it is now and many just wanted to PUSH PUSH PUSH and did not care about weekly runs at all.

It was easier for a casual to get carried in the world-tour-raids for gear than to do a weekly 10. This changed in BfA but it was to late for KARMA.

[Kaver]

When I make my groups for the weekly 10 I don't actually look for people that are good, I mean I don't invite complete low ilvl dudes, but to me the most important thing when inviting someone is knowing whether he/she leaves the run or not. I can deal with a 1 hour run as long as I get my M10 done. So in that regard R.IO is pretty pointless for me. In fact, the higher the score the more likely it seems to be associated with the probability to leave the group after a wipe. I wish we would have an addon that shows who leaves how often. I would only invite people that leave less than 10% of the time.

It seems like you are more interested in then weekly loot than actually running the dungeon for fun which is completely fair. I think it is bad game design from Blizzard but that is of course not your problem. The solution is (as you say) to align expectations before the run. Make sure that all the players in the group have the same goal.

But you also have to respect that some people like the competitive side of M+ and want to complete the dungeons as fast as possible. These are not bad people just because they have higher ambitions than just completing the run. Sometimes I’m saying to the group before the run that I’m going to leave the run if we whipe in the first part of the dungeon to make sure that the group has the same understanding as me. If not, I will of course leave the group BEFORE the run starts to be respectful. And I would never leave a group that actively told me that it was a run for the weekly chest with no leavers. People who leave those groups are idiots.

Just make sure that everyone in the group are in the same boat and there will be no issues

[Hightotemz]

When I make my groups for the weekly 10 I don't actually look for people that are good, I mean I don't invite complete low ilvl dudes, but to me the most important thing when inviting someone is knowing whether he/she leaves the run or not. I can deal with a 1 hour run as long as I get my M10 done. So in that regard R.IO is pretty pointless for me. In fact, the higher the score the more likely it seems to be associated with the probability to leave the group after a wipe. I wish we would have an addon that shows who leaves how often. I would only invite people that leave less than 10% of the time.

Yeah if you want to complete a 10 never accept higher then 1000 raider io players unless they have a very low score for the dungeon.

Raider.io is the reason people leave because it records all your history for each dungeon.
EG. I was invited to a +17 Siege and then within a minute removed from the group because I did the right thing and completed Sieges with friends and people I helped out to get the weekly in the past.

The person whispered me and said too many depleted siege keys was the reason he removed me from the group. I entered a debate with the player saying what I said above and that at least I finish the key regardless. I also mentioned I could of left failed timed runs and looked like I was a perfect human being with only timed clears.

Anyways I got into another +17 Siege that evening and timed it and then whispered that person to tell him.

However I can totally understand why people leave runs early if there is a group wipe or two, perhaps they would stay if raider.io only recorded their best runs.

[Charge me Doctor]

Put something like "no leavers", "may not be in time" or "weekly" in party title and you have a good chance to find people who just want chest like you and won't leave.

That's literally how you attract leavers.

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Yeah if you want to complete a 10 never accept higher then 1000 raider io players unless they have a very low score for the dungeon.

Raider.io is the reason people leave because it records all your history for each dungeon.
EG. I was invited to a +17 Siege and then within a minute removed from the group because I did the right thing and completed Sieges with friends and people I helped out to get the weekly in the past.

The person whispered me and said too many depleted siege keys was the reason he removed me from the group. I entered a debate with the player saying what I said above and that at least I finish the key regardless. I also mentioned I could of left failed timed runs and looked like I was a perfect human being with only timed clears.

Anyways I got into another +17 Siege that evening and timed it and then whispered that person to tell him.

However I can totally understand why people leave runs early if there is a group wipe or two, perhaps they would stay if raider.io only recorded their best runs.

And that's why this mentality of "i'm the best", "i only play with best players", "i don't want to waste my time with baddies" lead to raider.io. Unless all people who think like this are gone there will always be a some sort of gearscore to further make wow worse (then off course those people will rant about how wow had oh-so-good community back then), i just chose to not be that guy. For fucks sake, yersterday we had a 340ilvl demon hunter in FH+10 run and it turned out just fucking fine.

I loathe people who leave runs, it's literally that kid from your childhood who threw tantrums when his team started losing, starts crying and runs away from the game.

[Motso]

That's literally how you attract leavers.

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And that's why this mentality of "i'm the best", "i only play with best players", "i don't want to waste my time with baddies" lead to raider.io. Unless all people who think like this are gone there will always be a some sort of gearscore to further make wow worse (then off course those people will rant about how wow had oh-so-good community back then), i just chose to not be that guy. For fucks sake, yersterday we had a 340ilvl demon hunter in FH+10 run and it turned out just fucking fine.

I loathe people who leave runs, it's literally that kid from your childhood who threw tantrums when his team started losing, starts crying and runs away from the game.

My favourite is 'I don't make mistakes'. Seen that one pop up a few times around here. You know who makes mistakes? Everyone.

[Charge me Doctor]

My favourite is 'I don't make mistakes'. Seen that one pop up a few times around here. You know who makes mistakes. Everyone.

Nah m8 i never was 0,1 second late on an interrupt over that other DH, so we both look awkwardly while trash gets salvoed. Or did i ever blast my knockback in ataldazar before the barrier, so we awkwardly do no damage while all trash sits under it, while tank wonders "where the fuck is knockback?"?

This claim is so ridiculous and SO easy to prove false. All you need is just a dungeon run log

[Itheni]

I saw ROI and thought return on investment but soon realized that no one here cares about their future.

[scelero]

90% of the time when people leave groups, there's a justifiable reason and it's never that they're the ones who are "hot garbage" as you claim.

90% of all statistics are made up on the spot. So, I will need citation on this claim.

And I will counter your claim. 90% of people who leave for loot, do so after the boss that they want loot from.

[Kokolums]

Interestingly, the BEST method I have found to get people who don't leave are finding people who play specs that are out of favor. Select for enhance, survival, unholy, etc. As it turns out, those people are usually grateful for the opportunity and stick around.

I kinda go by this list of raid specs. Specs at the bottom are gonna be desperate enough to stick it out.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21/

[Soj88]

I personally don't think anything can tell you if someone will leave a run or not, its totally down to that player in the moment of time. My experience is that what other people have mentioned you must specify it is soloy for a weekly chest or you are pushing for RIO time/score. If for weekly I'd rather take any RIO player but someone who of an ilvl who will likely stay for possible loot upgrades. If we push I'll take a good Rio scored player(and yes I take into account if someone has a good main score ) end of the day as much as Rio causes a fuss it's a great tool and gives people a good idea what that player is like, if your a great player and dont use Rio well that's your own problem, it's there for a reason and until blizz impliments it's own way of scoring... it's there to stay. Alot of people get upset with been declined also, remember you cant see peoples roster and what class they might be looking for, dont always jump the gun! Imo 1k Rio in any role and you cant really go wrong for 10+

Edit: and when it comes to leaving a run, I will based on certain factors.
1: i get very toxic hostile players whom point the finger whether right or wrong.
2: for what ever reason something causes a ridiculous amount of wipes or very incompetent gameplay ie consistently causing wipes due to accidentally pulling(this far into expansion most people at 10+ should know routes)
3: someone else leaves!
As a general rule I stay as long as the group is friendly, responsive to each other, if someone lacks skill or needs help I'm happy to give feedback and guide a player.
I personally have a 1.1k score with dps and I play within my means, I join keys that I know my ability allows, if I want to push for a 15 I'll normally only do so with friends, not pugs.

[MidnyteTV]

The problem with player-generated tools to analyze and rank players is that the playerbase becomes too dependent on them.

First it was gearscore.

Then it was Logs and Parses rankings.

Now it's RaiderIO.

Nobody wants to actually test people in combat and see what they are made of. You can read logs all day long. How do you know he wasn't just padding? How do you know he's not a dickhead trying to toxify your guild?

People are people. A parse or RaiderIO score doesn't tell you whether this person will be a fun, productive member of your guild. Unfortunately people never learn, and the game suffers. Yet, it's somehow Blizzard's fault....

[Zyky]

90% of all statistics are made up on the spot. So, I will need citation on this claim.

And I will counter your claim. 90% of people who leave for loot, do so after the boss that they want loot from.

Do you even know what this thread is about? Obviously not, as you can't "leave after a boss you want is dead" in a M+.

[Kaver]

The problem with player-generated tools to analyze and rank players is that the playerbase becomes too dependent on them.

First it was gearscore.

Then it was Logs and Parses rankings.

Now it's RaiderIO.

Nobody wants to actually test people in combat and see what they are made of. You can read logs all day long. How do you know he wasn't just padding? How do you know he's not a dickhead trying to toxify your guild?

People are people. A parse or RaiderIO score doesn't tell you whether this person will be a fun, productive member of your guild. Unfortunately people never learn, and the game suffers. Yet, it's somehow Blizzard's fault....

But that is also Blizzard’s fault by designing the game based on playing with random people you only meet once. They need to force player interaction and force players to build relations. People use rio because no one actually knows each other and the game allow this behavior. We might as well play with robots.. it would make little difference.

[Zensunni]

When I make my groups for the weekly 10 I don't actually look for people that are good, I mean I don't invite complete low ilvl dudes, but to me the most important thing when inviting someone is knowing whether he/she leaves the run or not. I can deal with a 1 hour run as long as I get my M10 done. So in that regard R.IO is pretty pointless for me. In fact, the higher the score the more likely it seems to be associated with the probability to leave the group after a wipe. I wish we would have an addon that shows who leaves how often. I would only invite people that leave less than 10% of the time.

Get a higher RIO and run 10/11 with people with higher RIOs, problem solved.

[Qnubi]

Nah m8 i never was 0,1 second late on an interrupt over that other DH, so we both look awkwardly while trash gets salvoed. Or did i ever blast my knockback in ataldazar before the barrier, so we awkwardly do no damage while all trash sits under it, while tank wonders "where the fuck is knockback?"?

This claim is so ridiculous and SO easy to prove false. All you need is just a dungeon run log

Claiming you are perfect/do no mistake is in itself imperfect. There is not a single human being that didn't mess up something, even the best of the best do mistakes, it's impossible to not do them simply because our brain doesn't work with perfection. Even the most basic things like breathing has imperfections. You can literally choke on your own saliva. Should teach anyone how "perfect" you can become if a basic human function you spend your entire life with can fuck up.

I agree with you, I see tons of mistakes on myself and others, including high rated players.

[Nnyco]

Write in your info that you dont care about time.

[quite an expert in wow]

when i still pugged, i would just take a little time to invest into the players profile:

- how many keys did they deplete
- did they get notable achievements
- maybe a small whisper and see if they write a well written answer or just a 2 word reply

this helped me to run succesful pugs in the past. im not sure if more information about a player should be displayed. for example, what if OP's internet connection suddendly started to drop out ONLY when he entered m+? this would have a big negative impact if we had a tracking system for leaving runs early

ultimately, for me the best way to get good groups is my answer that i always give for these threads:

- add players you like and build a trusted group
- and/or join a guild and make frequent guild runs

see it like making friends IRL. you dont magically make friends. it takes a bit of time. invest into it.

[Faesroll]

When pushing keys you fail about 75% of them which means you leave and reset it. How would you differentiate between leaves like this and actual ragequitters?