Are the PvP devs asleep?

[Nuba]

8.2 came out and we only had a few placebo changes.
the 10% nerf on druids made nothing since they were about 3 times better than other healers (as in regrowth literally heals the same as 8 to 9 shadowmends/healing waves), the disc changes did nothing, DKs left untouched etc etc.

What is the problem here? Do Blizzard not know what they must do? Isn't it obvious at this point?

Little changes I would do that would instantly make arena more enjoyable:
Druid (resto): sotf increases regrowth by 100% instead of 200% when engaged in combat with enemy players (its way too overpowered right now, beyond broken)
disc: 2x stacks of focused will back (total 30% damage reduction from melee) - they would still die to melee and/or go oom in seconds, it just would be less helpless than it does now
mage: nerf gpy by 10% (seriously wtf why hasnt this been at least slightly touched this far into the expansion?)
DK: too much damage is ok if theyre not as durable as they currently are, I'd nerf the healing of death strike by 50% when engaged in combat with enemy players.
shaman(resto): healing surge increased by 30% (I know ppl want healing wave but MAYBE that'd be too OP for a hotfix, it would need testing)
DH: I'd change mana burn into something else, maybe make eol undispelable to compensate, but eventually it'll become a problem and people will hate on it, rather just change it now.

like all but the DH change would be doable in a hotfix, and arena would be a million times more enjoyable than it is now
and sure, these changes wouldnt make it perfect, but it would be a nice starting point

[Boo Radley]

I just hopped into a bg the other day as my disc priest and got trained down in seconds every time. I thought I was undergeared or bad and that's why it was happening.

Now it turns out i'm undergeared, bad and on a weakly kitted class.

[cocomen2]

Isnt ashran not enough for you?


and BTW

this post made by best PVP designer HoLeenka

[Schattenlied]

I'm guessing they've declared BFA a lost cause (and rightfully so, it is) and decided to focus on 9.0... No sense in wasting what would undoubtedly be an immense number of hours trying to fix the absolute catastrophic failure that is BFA's PvP when the classes are getting revamped again in 9.0 and make all that invested time a complete waste.

[Appelgren]

I'm just wondering how rogue/mage/x is still allowed to be this dominant!? Its getting beyond ridiculous at this point...

[Kralljin]

I'm just wondering how rogue/mage/x is still allowed to be this dominant!? Its getting beyond ridiculous at this point...

It would be easier to name all seasons where RMX wasn't decent.
Or more difficult, because i don't recall a single one.

I mean, even GC straight up said that, among other reasons, mages rarely got nerfed in the past because a lot of devs play mage.

[barrsftw]

It would be easier to name all seasons where RMX wasn't decent.
Or more difficult, because i don't recall a single one.

I mean, even GC straight up said that, among other reasons, mages rarely got nerfed in the past because a lot of devs play mage.

I dont think it was very good S1 of WotLK.. but yeah.. it's pretty pretty good for most of WoW's existence.

[Saverem]

No, they're just extremely incompetent and overpaid.

[nyc81991]

Necrotic Strike from Unholy DK's is way out of line. Definitely needs a nerf.

Resto Druid also seems a little too powerful right now.

Greater Pyro has been a pretty ridiculous spell for a while and should be 25% health instead of 35%.

I can also see a 50% nerf to almost all Dps Essences for most classes / specs in PvP.

[Fred Skinner]

Not asleep. Just incompetent. Mr. kaleiki thinks it is all about rated pvp. And he focuses on it.

They should hire people who know how to design pvp in a MMORPG mainly made for casual gamers.

[Lodravel]

Not asleep. Just incompetent. Mr. kaleiki thinks it is all about rated pvp. And he focuses on it.

They should hire people who know how to design pvp in a MMORPG mainly made for casual gamers.

Indeed, that has been my stance for some time as well. The competitive PvP scene is minuscule and that includes all the people that care about it. While those certainly shouldn't be disregarded, making them the focal point for balancing efforts is ridiculous considering the huge discrepancy between players partaking in one and not the other.
"Casual" PvP, as in BGs, were always at the heart of WoW PvP. Arenas are nice, but if you gotta focus on one or the other, fuck arenas. The game wouldn't be any worse for it, as Esports, the "pinnacle" of competitive WoW PvP, has never been more than a joke.

[Warning]

Rogue mage needs to be a fast burn comp again, it can have great CC and damage but it can't also be super tanky and great in the long term/dampening. I think rogue wound poison should be a weaker heal debuff than mortal strike, and temporal shield needs a significant nerf. In the previous patch locks were very strong, right now we're seeing mages being infinitely harder to kill than destro locks who are once again flopping to both cleaves and rogue mage.

As far as DK's are concerned I think its not great how they only become a viable target at 20% dampening and above and are basically immortal before. Improve icebound fortitude a bit and nerf deathstrike so that is smoothed out more and reduce the duration on necrotic strike so it can actually fall off with proper kiting.

Resto druids are still a bit too good but especially so in 2v2. I think feral affinity needs a nerf, healing needs another slight nerf and quite honestly Shadowmeld needs a fat nerf, its the most broken racial in the game since forever now and brings alliance druids and rogues to an entirely different level from horde ones.

Meld a mid air Gpy, Cbolt, incoming CC or use it to restealth rake/cheapshot right in someones face. Its so much better than other racials that it's totally laughable. It should at very least be a 3 minute cooldown, but honestly it shouldn't allow you to stealth right out of it.

[Micronetic]

Asleep? No, we got the new PvP brawl where we fight against bots lol ... pathetic!

[Kralljin]

Rogue mage needs to be a fast burn comp again, it can have great CC and damage but it can't also be super tanky and great in the long term/dampening.

The problem isn't that they're tanky, the issue is that their strength (CC) basically fixes that issue.

Rogues aren't exactly tanky, neither are mages.
They lack passive damage reduction, can't break any stuns and their actual defensives aren't on a short CD.

The problem is that you never get a shot to go into the offensive because you're constantly under pressure by the Rogue and have to somehow stop the mage from cc'ing your healer / mate.

Once you blow your offensives / defensives CD, they simply reset the fight, which isn't exactly difficult with a Mage and Rogue, then come back again.

In order for RMX weakness (the lack of defensives) to have more relevance, you'd have to nerf the strength of Mage and Rogue, which is control.
I would however nerf their damage, Assa rogue simply does too much, Mages do way too much damage without even casting (be it Frost or Fire) if they want to.

[Warning]

The problem isn't that they're tanky, the issue is that their strength (CC) basically fixes that issue.

Rogues aren't exactly tanky, neither are mages.
They lack passive damage reduction, can't break any stuns and their actual defensives aren't on a short CD.

The problem is that you never get a shot to go into the offensive because you're constantly under pressure by the Rogue and have to somehow stop the mage from cc'ing your healer / mate.

Once you blow your offensives / defensives CD, they simply reset the fight, which isn't exactly difficult with a Mage and Rogue, then come back again.

In order for RMX weakness (the lack of defensives) to have more relevance, you'd have to nerf the strength of Mage and Rogue, which is control.
I would however nerf their damage, Assa rogue simply does too much, Mages do way too much damage without even casting (be it Frost or Fire) if they want to.

No they actually are tanky on top of the CC, they can mitigate damage insanely well. Feint with elusiveness is an insanely short CD wall and it is in addition to other very powerful cds: evasion, cloak and vanish. For mages, temporal shield an insane mitigation tool, 45 second CD on something that is easily as good as a 40% wall, and it comes alongside their immunity and short CD ice barrier.

That's the reason RMD is currently beating lock teams both before dampening and in dampening whereas historically they always struggled after a certain point, right now they're able to win the output war due to a combination of high dps, heal debuff, mitigation and control. The CC has always been there, the rest was less, for example when we still had templates their max HP was reduced.

[Kralljin]

No they actually are tanky on top of the CC, they can mitigate damage insanely well. Feint with elusiveness is an insanely short CD wall and it is in addition to other very powerful cds: evasion, cloak and vanish.

The issue with Feint is that it eats a gcd and 35 energy, meaning less damage.

And i'll stay by it, their defense is not a problem, their CC is, you cannot apply pressure because you're constantly sitting in CC's or have to play around their CC's.

For mages, temporal shield an insane mitigation tool, 45 second CD on something that is easily as good as a 40% wall, and it comes alongside their immunity and short CD ice barrier.

If there's one class that can dispel on the enemy team, mage defense is pretty fucked.

Like really, casters like Elemental really screws with Mages because of those hardhitting earth shocks and constant dispels, same goes for any other caster that can dispel.

That's the reason RMD is currently beating lock teams both before dampening and in

No idea what this has to with Lock, especially in a season where most Locks play Destro rather than Affliction.
Not like Destro really wants to play into dampening, doesn't really matter to them because all they care about is killing people with CB's.

RMX simply don't give a shit about dampening because due to their CC, they automatically avoid a shit ton of damage and they can kill almost any class with a single well placed switch, fact is that there Dampening plays into their favour.

That aside, keeping a Druid from drinking is quite a challenge unless you're team is packed with mobility and even then, thanks for their CC, both Mage and Rogue can buy their healer a shit ton of time.

[skribzy]

PvP is a lot easier to balance when there is only 5 specs to worry about.
The others can just be OK or something whatever.

Its like in MOBAs where you have old champions that are bad and awaiting their rework, and the new guys who everyone plays.
You play Demo Lock in pvp to have fun with an odd comp, not to win.

[Ermelloth]

Assassin Rogue and Fire Mage's damage need a flat 10-15% nerf to begin with. Greater Pyroblast's effectiveness needs to be cut in 25% in addition.

[Kralljin]

PvP is a lot easier to balance when there is only 5 specs to worry about.
The others can just be OK or something whatever.

The problem isn't the amount, it's the fact that the devs are seemingly already focused on the next expansion and that PvP is pretty much a mode tagged onto WoW.

Like, the amount of specs that exist do not impact how much strong some specs are.

People will shit on me for saying this, but since the introduction of PvP talents in Legion, there is a greater variety of specs in PvP, especially a lot of hybrid dps such as Ele or Ret were total feast or famine specs each expansion, they sucked or were borderline OP, now they seem to have a more consistent appearance in Arena.
Playing Fury in PvP was basically unheard, same goes for something such as Fire in Arena.

You play Demo Lock in pvp to have fun with an odd comp, not to win.

I would argue that Demo can be pretty effective, it's just far more difficult to pull off.

First off, your Pet management is far more relevant, it's not just leaving your Felhunter on some random caster dude and hit Spell lock every 24 seconds to interrupt a cast, your Fel Guard is a pretty important source of your damage, Axe Toss is a great tool because it's an instant physical stun.

On top of that, if you fuck up your Demonic Tyrant, your damage is abysmal, pets that actually hardcast rather than just auto attack can really suck in Arena due to LoS, if you don't have the tools to nail down your focus target, they go behind the pillar and your burst is done.


Meanwhile, a Destro lock can just win the game by getting out two consecutive Chaos bolts.
It's not far worse in my opinion, the win condition of Destro is just far easier to meet, thus most Lock choose the path of least resistance.

[docterfreeze]

Not asleep. Just incompetent. Mr. kaleiki thinks it is all about rated pvp. And he focuses on it.

They should hire people who know how to design pvp in a MMORPG mainly made for casual gamers.

Idk about that. He made a post mocking the playerbase around when 8.2 was revealed complaining about how we don't care about new maps and only want class changes. Gotta be pretty casual to value maps and visual updates at the same level as gameplay. Competitive players are complaining too. Meta updates once per season and PvE items either go without nerfs or the nerfs they receive aren't enough. Nobody is happy with current PvP.