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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Pruning:
    No more Stun/CC. To me, Shaman should never have gotten their Hex nor their stun totem. What made Shamans unique in Vanilla/TBC was no CC at all. This meant we had other, more fun, strengths.
    This exactly. Shamans were the anti-CC. Short CD, ranged interrupt. Fear dispell, Disease/poison dispell, Spell immune on short CC (Grounding), Purge.

    I'm not really sure if they would be able to remove them now considering this expansion is supposed to be "The Great Unpruning"... hmmm

  2. #142
    Here I go again. I'm biased towards Elemental because that's my main, just FYI. Will try to be fair regardless:

    General
    - Spirit Wolf, Ascendance, and Wind Rush Totem baseline for all specs.

    Elemental
    - Earthen Rage baseline.
    - Lava Burst has 2 charges by default.
    - Elemental Blast baseline. Now increases all 3 secondary stats, but by a lesser amount than it does now with a randomly-chosen stat.
    - Storm Elemental baseline. Does not replace Fire Elemental. Redesigned to hurl lightning bolts that explode into chain lightning upon hitting the initial target.
    - Liquid Magma Totem baseline.
    - Icefury baseline.
    - Stormkeeper baseline.
    - Volcanic Inferno (Legion artifact trait) baseline.
    - Igneous Potential and Synapse Shock (Azerite traits) baseline.

    Enhancement
    - Feral Lunge baseline.
    - Crashing Storm baseline.
    - Sundering baseline.
    - Hailstorm baked into Frostbrand. Frostbrand itself becomes free to cast, like Flametongue.
    - Ride the Lightning (PvP talent) baseline.
    - Doom Vortex, Unleash Doom, and Wind Strikes (Legion artifact traits) become baseline.
    - Natural Harmony and Roiling Storm (Azerite traits) baseline.

    Restoration
    - Unleash Life baseline.
    - Echo of the Elements renamed to Echo of the Tides. Function remains the same.
    - Deluge baseline.
    - Cloudburst Totem baseline. Does not replace Healing Stream Totem.
    - Wellspring baseline. Can now damage enemies in its path.
    - Earthen Wall Totem and Ancestral Protection Totem baseline.
    - Gift of the Queen (Legion artifact ability) renamed Grace of the Sea. Function remains the same.
    - Tidal Pools (Legion artifact trait) baseline.
    - Overflowing Shores and Turn the Tide (Azerite traits) baseline.

    You may notice a theme here. In a future xpac concept, I envision that the talent system is overhauled/removed, and that players would get access to all of their talents, traits, and various powers. Sure we'd be overpowered, but that's the whole point. After all this time, shouldn't we be? (rhetorical question)

  3. #143
    so you basically want shamans to have like 12 active spells to use and on top of that get talents.

    Don't mean to be a downer but that's not gonna happen. Ever.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Azelas View Post
    so you basically want shamans to have like 12 active spells to use and on top of that get talents.

    Don't mean to be a downer but that's not gonna happen. Ever.
    Think of all the keybinds you would need! It would drive me crazy

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelyn View Post
    Think of all the keybinds you would need! It would drive me crazy
    Okay, fair enough. Are you sure the Shadowlands unpruning won't also do that?

  6. #146
    Give Enhance 20 yard range on their auto-attacks and stormstrike. Now they are a pseudo ranged spec that can weave in and out of melee range to use their abilities. They would still have to go into melee for cleave (crashing lightning + sundering). Everything else in their kit already has at least 20 yard range, so this wouldn't be a huge change and it should give them back a raid spot since they don't take up valuable melee spots anymore.

  7. #147
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Elemental:
    - Remove Lightning Bolt, use Chain Lightning as filler
    - Chain Lightning channel instead of cast time
    - Lava Burst cleaves with some % to all targets afflicted by Flame Shock
    - Remove Flame Shock cooldown
    - Remove Lava Surge proc

    Enhancement:
    - Stormstrike nature damage
    - Remove Stormstrike cooldown
    - Lava Lash 20yd range
    - Fix Maelstorm generation to matter
    - Remove Lightning Bolt and Flametongue


    Restoration:
    - Healing Rain instant cast OR no cooldown with low mana cost
    - Chain Heal link range increased by some yards
    - If Chain Heal is cast on an enemy target, it becomes a damaging spell like Chain Lightning
    - Replace Lightning Bolt with Water Bolt for single target damage
    - Remove Flame Shock, Lava Burst, Chain Lightning


    PS. Searing Totem needs to stay dead, forever
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Elemental:
    - Remove Lightning Bolt, use Chain Lightning as filler
    - Chain Lightning channel instead of cast time
    - Lava Burst cleaves with some % to all targets afflicted by Flame Shock
    - Remove Flame Shock cooldown
    - Remove Lava Surge proc


    Enhancement:
    - Stormstrike nature damage
    - Remove Stormstrike cooldown
    - Lava Lash 20yd range
    - Fix Maelstorm generation to matter
    - Remove Lightning Bolt and Flametongue


    Restoration:
    - Healing Rain instant cast OR no cooldown with low mana cost
    - Chain Heal link range increased by some yards
    - If Chain Heal is cast on an enemy target, it becomes a damaging spell like Chain Lightning
    - Replace Lightning Bolt with Water Bolt for single target damage
    - Remove Flame Shock, Lava Burst, Chain Lightning


    PS. Searing Totem needs to stay dead, forever
    Making the filler be a channel spell would cause our mastery to be even more useless. I guess they could make it just deal damage twice, but it does lose the visual satisfaction of seeing the machine gun feeling. Making Lava Burst our AoE spell and requiring Flame Shock would make us need to use a lot of GCDs before we can AoE; not a very satisfying idea.

    As for Enhancement, Stormstrike doing nature damage is something a lot of people have been asking for. I feel they should move some of the enhancement feeling back to totems and enhance your team, but the shaman gets increased bonuses.

    I have no real opinion on resto as I don't heal enough to have a good idea what needs to be changed, but why remove the damaging abilities? Just because you change the name from Lightning Bolt to Water Bolt could just be a glyph. We're master of all elements, not forced into a single element depending on the spec.

  9. #149
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahrees View Post
    Making the filler be a channel spell would cause our mastery to be even more useless. I guess they could make it just deal damage twice, but it does lose the visual satisfaction of seeing the machine gun feeling. Making Lava Burst our AoE spell and requiring Flame Shock would make us need to use a lot of GCDs before we can AoE; not a very satisfying idea.
    No, my point wasn't to make Lava Burst THE aoe spell, but give it actual value in cleave and aoe situations. So you should press that button on cooldown while cleaving and aoeing instead of just CL+EQ spam.


    I have no real opinion on resto as I don't heal enough to have a good idea what needs to be changed, but why remove the damaging abilities? Just because you change the name from Lightning Bolt to Water Bolt could just be a glyph. We're master of all elements, not forced into a single element depending on the spec.
    The reason is that resto shaman already has too many abilities to bind (by far the most out of all healers; holy priest coming somewhat close second), so shortening the list from those cluttered dps spells is where some pruning should be done. It's actually hard to find good keybinds for all resto shaman abilities because there are a couple too many.

    The spec identity should be emphasized, just like it is for eg. mages.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    No, my point wasn't to make Lava Burst THE aoe spell, but give it actual value in cleave and aoe situations. So you should press that button on cooldown while cleaving and aoeing instead of just CL+EQ spam.



    The reason is that resto shaman already has too many abilities to bind (by far the most out of all healers; holy priest coming somewhat close second), so shortening the list from those cluttered dps spells is where some pruning should be done. It's actually hard to find good keybinds for all resto shaman abilities because there are a couple too many.

    The spec identity should be emphasized, just like it is for eg. mages.
    Whenever you mentioned to make Chain Lightning a channel spell, I am thinking that you would want it like Mind Flay or Drain Soul. Then that removes the Chain Lightning + Earthquake rotation. Lava Burst is already part of your AoE if you use Master of Elements to buff Earthquake.

    Blizzard has already mentioned that they are moving away from spec identity back to class identity; therefore, there is no reason for them to replace resto shaman damage rotation. I feel if we were to remove the entire damage rotation down to a single button, you would lose too much. The rare times I play resto shaman, I enjoy having Flame Shock up and casting the instant Lava Bursts between heals. I feel as if it would be punishing players that play resto in the open world on top of all of that.

  11. #151
    Enhancement needs less spells IMO, too many to begin with, crash lightning needs to go as well as the annoying Storm strike spamming, they need a real rotation.
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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Enhancement needs less spells IMO, too many to begin with, crash lightning needs to go as well as the annoying Storm strike spamming, they need a real rotation.
    I think Enhancement has a good number of spells, but most of the spells are really lackluster. Lava Lash is boring, Flame Tongue is press and forget, and the only real thing that feels good is the Stormstrike spam. I'm bias towards Crash Lightning vs the Magma Totem + Fire Nova combo.

    Enhancement had a priority rotation system since around BC. Not sure if only moving away from the Stormstrike spam would really help the spec.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Nahrees View Post
    I think Enhancement has a good number of spells, but most of the spells are really lackluster. Lava Lash is boring, Flame Tongue is press and forget, and the only real thing that feels good is the Stormstrike spam. I'm bias towards Crash Lightning vs the Magma Totem + Fire Nova combo.

    Enhancement had a priority rotation system since around BC. Not sure if only moving away from the Stormstrike spam would really help the spec.
    I still find it is still bloated more than any other DPS spec and has been for a long time, Should only be 5 damage buttons max for any main rotation. I am also a fan of Shaman but since Legion I have not enjoyed them.
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  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I still find it is still bloated more than any other DPS spec and has been for a long time, Should only be 5 damage buttons max for any main rotation. I am also a fan of Shaman but since Legion I have not enjoyed them.
    Current Rotation:
    Flame Tongue before it drops, Stormstrike on CD, Rockbiter when below 30 Maelstrom, Lava Lash whenever you have nothing else to spend. Crash Lightning whenever you're in an AoE situation. Add in whatever talents, Sunder being the most likely of those.

    Past Rotation:
    Searing Totem, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt at 5 stacks, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Unleashed Elements, and Earth Shock. AoE was Chain Lightning with Magma Totem.

    The rotation before Legion had more going on. If your complaint is with bloat, I think you would be more in-line with what it is now than pre-Legion.

  15. #155
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I still find it is still bloated more than any other DPS spec and has been for a long time, Should only be 5 damage buttons max for any main rotation. I am also a fan of Shaman but since Legion I have not enjoyed them.
    I mean, excluding CDs and depending on your spec, Enhancement has 6 or 7 abilities.

    Flame tongue and Frostbrand (if Hailstorm is speced) to keep up
    Rockbitter
    Crash Lightning
    Stromstrike
    Lava Lash
    Sundering

    Add wolves or ascendance depending on what you choose

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Nahrees View Post
    Current Rotation:
    Flame Tongue before it drops, Stormstrike on CD, Rockbiter when below 30 Maelstrom, Lava Lash whenever you have nothing else to spend. Crash Lightning whenever you're in an AoE situation. Add in whatever talents, Sunder being the most likely of those.

    Past Rotation:
    Searing Totem, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt at 5 stacks, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Unleashed Elements, and Earth Shock. AoE was Chain Lightning with Magma Totem.

    The rotation before Legion had more going on. If your complaint is with bloat, I think you would be more in-line with what it is now than pre-Legion.
    I always found they had bloat to be honest, or maybe it is just akward.
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