Global warming, what to do?

[Celista]

Look at a country like the United States, built entirely on the promise of never-ending growth and prosperity. Now that its virtually undeniable that that is bullshit we are already taring at each other, and relatively this is still a pretty rich place.

Human beings are interesting because we are so motivated by social referencing/keeping up with the Joneses. More more more, must keep up appearances, etc. I assumed that was true everywhere but perhaps some of that behavior is specific or heightened due to US culture.

[Theodarzna]

Notice how none of these doomsday hucksters ever release their predictive methodology? Conveniently meaning that nobody else can verify how they came to their conclusion.



How does he arrive at this? It's not science.

So what is science is believing that one can dump unlimited amounts of chemicals into the atmosphere of a planet and believe firmly that this will not change how that atmosphere works or behaves, that chemistry literally doesn't exist.

But what isn't science is the proven effects of CO2, Methane, and climatology.

Gotcha', thanks for participating.

[JohnBrown1917]

What does knowing him have to do with anything?

You asked me if I knew if he was being backed up, I answered.
Point is, he was no expert, so I have no idea why he is being brought into this at all.

[Has lost its way]

Live our lives as we are and realize that at some point we will have to abandon the planet. Unless of course it turns out to by cyclical in that case we just wait it out.

[Omega10]

Is it 2030 now the doomsday date?
What did Al Gore predict?

He said the world would reach a point of no return in a decade, which would have been two years ago.

Which means... he was 100% correct. Actually, he pretty much got the year almost exactly correct. We are past the point of no return, and now it's time to experience what scientists have been talking about since the 1980s.

[Theodarzna]

Human beings are interesting because we are so motivated by social referencing/keeping up with the Joneses. More more more, must keep up appearances, etc. I assumed that was true everywhere but perhaps some of that behavior is specific or heightened due to US culture.

I maintain its much more of a Western thing, that takes advantage of our human inclination towards status and dials that up by a metric fuck ton. Obviously, status seeking is human, we are social creatures and have social hierarchies. Status in biological terms is reproductive success. But modern American and European culture to a lesser extent has ripped out everything but status seeking.

[JohnBrown1917]

Notice how none of these doomsday hucksters ever release their predictive methodology? Conveniently meaning that nobody else can verify how they came to their conclusion.



How does he arrive at this? It's not science.

I hope you're going to enjoy the increased amount of wildfires that climate change is going to cause in Cali, because its gonna suck otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

Live our lives as we are and realize that at some point we will have to abandon the planet. Unless of course it turns out to by cyclical in that case we just wait it out.

Its not cyclical, and we not have the tech to move the whole human race off earth. Try supporting actuall solutions.

- - - Updated - - -

Which means... he was 100% correct. Actually, he pretty much got the year almost exactly correct. We are past the point of no return, and now it's time to experience what scientists have been talking about since the 1980s.

We can still prevent a lot of damage if get to it quick.

[PC2]

So what is science is believing that one can dump unlimited amounts of chemicals into the atmosphere of a planet and believe firmly that this will not change how that atmosphere works or behaves, that chemistry literally doesn't exist.

But what isn't science is the proven effects of CO2, Methane, and climatology.

Gotcha', thanks for participating.

I'm not sure what your point is. If you want to prophesy the future the onus is on you to prove why anybody should take your prediction seriously. If global warming will reduce GDP by 1/3rd, then either show the work or just admit that it's not based on anything.

[Theodarzna]

I'm not sure what your point is. If you want to prophesy the future the onus is on you to prove why anybody should take your prediction seriously. If global warming will reduce GDP by 1/3rd, then either show the work or just admit that it's not based on anything.

The works have been shown by legions of scientists. You not having the time to read it isn't really my problem.

This sounds a lot like your "First past the post favors the bold" claim for many MANY threads ago.

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm not sure what your point is. If you want to prophesy the future the onus is on you to prove why anybody should take your prediction seriously. If global warming will reduce GDP by 1/3rd, then either show the work or just admit that it's not based on anything.

We already got tons of studies showing the effects CO2 has, if you're still ignoring them by now that is on you.

[PC2]

The works have been shown by legions of scientists. You not having the time to read it isn't really my problem.

Okay so where's the formula that these legions of scientists used to get the 1/3rd GDP reduction? If this is science why can't this number be reproduced anywhere else?

[stevenho]

Humans have walked the Earth for 0,01% of the planet's existence. Most of that time as cave-dwelling animals.
And we will be gone in much less than another 0,01%, regardless of what we do about climate.
Nobody will miss us, nobody will notice, nobody will care.

[Theodarzna]

Okay so where's the formula that says the GDP will be reduced by 1/3rd? If this is science why can't this number be reproduced anywhere else?

See, the problem here is you are putting the onus on me to write you an essay that well over a thousand people have written. Again this is sounding a lot like your "First Past the Post favors the bold" claim. Which suites, you have a very bourgie status quo bent in all your posts, sometimes to such an obtuse degree that it is impossible to believe you are sincere.

The GDP for the record is arbitrary. CO2 as a greenhouse gas is a fact, it is immutable. The GDP is a completely arbitrary metric subject to being gamed, rigged, cheated and can be changed depending on what numbers feed into it. Why the hell I'd care about the GDP versus the world my daughter will inheret when I'm a corpse or reincarnated as a horse or some shit is far more important than stock values in NYC stock exchange or how many lightbulbs got made that year, or preditor drones.

[Santti]

Well, thank god for Trumpsters telling us how Climate Change isn't a real thing.

[Nihilist74]

We have got to reduce the population. We need to quit over-farming and producing large amounts of agriculture. This process creates a lot of pollution. The amount of energy we need for the high population also creates a lot of pollution.
We don't have to open death camps to accomplish this. We should have every man and woman to get vasectomies and tubal ligations from the time they start puberty. When they are older, have a stable career, income, physical and mental health, they can have the procedure reversed if they want children.
We should also focus our spending on a better education system for better technology that will help us produce energy with less pollution. I have seen articles about devices that take carbon from the atmosphere.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

China has a population of 1.5 billion, its hardly fair to even compare to other countries. Or do you think its fair the Chinese have to give up way more than the US?

In a game where the bottom line matters, yes. In particular since their numbers are sky rocketing and US numbers are pretty slowly but steadily going down. Even if a magic switch was flipped and the US went to 5-10% over night the Chinese would just make up the margin in probably 5-10 years and we are still fucked.

- - - Updated - - -

We don't have to open death camps to accomplish this. We should have every man and woman to get vasectomies and tubal ligations from the time they start puberty. When they are older, have a stable career, income, physical and mental health, they can have the procedure reversed if they want children.

Or offer up large sums of money to have it done. I know a lot of people that would take a GI level home loan / investment to shut it off. Sure, most of them don't intend on having kids anyways but at least now their are guarantees.

[JohnBrown1917]

Humans have walked the Earth for 0,01% of the planet's existence. Most of that time as cave-dwelling animals.
And we will be gone in much less than another 0,01%, regardless of what we do about climate.
Nobody will miss us, nobody will notice, nobody will care.

You forgot the part where it matters to us as humans.

- - - Updated - - -

We have got to reduce the population. We need to quit over-farming and producing large amounts of agriculture. This process creates a lot of pollution. The amount of energy we need for the high population also creates a lot of pollution.
We don't have to open death camps to accomplish this. We should have every man and woman to get vasectomies and tubal ligations from the time they start puberty. When they are older, have a stable career, income, physical and mental health, they can have the procedure reversed if they want children.
We should also focus our spending on a better education system for better technology that will help us produce energy with less pollution. I have seen articles about devices that take carbon from the atmosphere.

The population is not the problem, and even your 'solutions' would only have any effect when its way to late.

[God Save The King]

Human beings are interesting because we are so motivated by social referencing/keeping up with the Joneses. More more more, must keep up appearances, etc. I assumed that was true everywhere but perhaps some of that behavior is specific or heightened due to US culture.

From my experience, that's very much a suburban American thing. I grew up rurally and thought that was a TV trope, not something people actually did. My trips abroad have also made me think that it's pretty much American.

[JohnBrown1917]

In a game where the bottom line matters, yes. In particular since their numbers are sky rocketing and US numbers are pretty slowly but steadily going down. Even if a magic switch was flipped and the US went to 5-10% over night the Chinese would just make up the margin in probably 5-10 years and we are still fucked.

- - - Updated - - -



Or offer up large sums of money to have it done. I know a lot of people that would take a GI level home loan / investment to shut it off. Sure, most of them don't intend on having kids anyways but at least now their are guarantees.

Going down 5% is way too low anyway, won't make a difference. Think 90%, as a start. With the end goal of 100%.
For now, the US is still a way bigger problem if you at it per head.


What hubcap is pretty much saying is that China should stop trying to reach the same level of luxury as the US so that the US can keep living with the luxury it has now. They should still be expected to reduce it, but they should not carry a bigger burden just because they got a population of 1.6 Billion.

[Has lost its way]

I hope you're going to enjoy the increased amount of wildfires that climate change is going to cause in Cali, because its gonna suck otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -



Its not cyclical, and we not have the tech to move the whole human race off earth. Try supporting actuall solutions.

- - - Updated - - -



We can still prevent a lot of damage if get to it quick.

Never said the whole race.