2023-2024 NBA Thread

[PhaelixWW]

The nets feel like they could win 42 games and the nba championship which just sucks… they might actually prefer to not have home court in the playoffs thanks to dirtbag Kyrie.

That's only one extra Kyrie game per series. And then they'd have to play the better teams as a lower seed, as well. It wouldn't be worth it. Especially if the Nets have to face the Knicks or the Raptors, where Kyrie won't be able to play at all.

Also, the Nets are 4 and 8 in games in which Kyrie has played.

[Espo]

I hate everything about this trade. That’s a huge price to pay for Harden, who I hate, and I like Embiid so I don’t know how I feel about the 76ers anymore.

The nets feel like they could win 42 games and the nba championship which just sucks… they might actually prefer to not have home court in the playoffs thanks to dirtbag Kyrie.

Might work for one team or the other, I don’t know… but I hate it.

I've seen a few folks share this sentiment (a lot in Philly as we tend to go negative quickly on these).

But I don't get it. We traded a player who had 0 value to us (since he refuses to play), a backup center (who is playing decent) and a solid player in Seth Curry (good range, but complete defensive liability), a 1st round pick that is going to be super late round and a maybe OK 1st round pick that is top 8 protected 2x (converts to 2 seconds if it doesn't convey).

So...a player who refuses to play for us, a backup center, a solid starter, a worthless 1st and another likely worthless first (other than moderate trade bait)....for James Harden..a top 50 player of all time.

I'm confused as to how the Sixers got the bad end of this trade or 'gave up too much'. This feels like a pretty solid outcome for both teams.

[PhaelixWW]

James Harden..a top 50 player of all time.

But... is he? Really? Anymore?

I mean, his FG% (41%) this year is the lowest it's been since his rookie year. His 3P% (33%) is the lowest it's ever been. His FT% (87%) is still high, but he's getting to the line rather significantly less than he used to, before the "Harden" rule was implemented.

Literally, Seth Curry is better per 100 possessions in all those categories (49% vs 41% FG%, 40% vs 33% 3P%, 88% vs 87% FT%). Harden is better at rebounding, but do you really need another good rebounder with Embiid on the floor? Harden's main improvement over Curry is in his assists, but he's just as sloppy at it, as his A/T is virtually identical to Curry's with about 2.5x the number of turnovers.

Now, Harden is a better facilitator and ball handler, but I just don't see where the improvement is worth what they gave up, and especially considering the value they probably could have gotten elsewhere for Simmons.

[Espo]

But... is he? Really? Anymore?

I mean, his FG% (41%) this year is the lowest it's been since his rookie year. His 3P% (33%) is the lowest it's ever been. His FT% (87%) is still high, but he's getting to the line rather significantly less than he used to, before the "Harden" rule was implemented.

Literally, Seth Curry is better per 100 possessions in all those categories (49% vs 41% FG%, 40% vs 33% 3P%, 88% vs 87% FT%). Harden is better at rebounding, but do you really need another good rebounder with Embiid on the floor? Harden's main improvement over Curry is in his assists, but he's just as sloppy at it, as his A/T is virtually identical to Curry's with about 2.5x the number of turnovers.

Now, Harden is a better facilitator and ball handler, but I just don't see where the improvement is worth what they gave up, and especially considering the value they probably could have gotten elsewhere for Simmons.

It's fair to argue whether or not Harden is the same guy. But I've seen this version of Harden before--in Houston before he was traded (though not quite as statistically rough)--The lackadaisical attitude and effort. Would anyone be shocked if his EFG% pops up 5-10%, along with his 3P% now that he's where he wants to be? Again though--fair argument and I'm certainly speculating.

But if you think other Curry is the same guy that Harden is....I'm not sure what to say. That turns into one of those "do you watch basketball" type of conversations (I'm not trying to insult). Basic stats also say Joe Harris is a better three point shooter than Steph Curry is. I'd guess that advanced stats may not think Seth is quite on the level of Harden (this year's).

But what else were the Sixers going to get with that value? And again--what did they really give up? The future? At some point you have to cash in your chips. You can't just hold out forever--that's how teams stay in purgatory. The Sixers need to take advantage of right now--not later.

But I think I get where you're at with it. The argument that Harden is declining and maybe isn't what he used to be is fair--I just don't see the Sixers getting anything remotely as impactful as Harden has proven he can be--and they gave up pieces that are not crucial and were not going to win them a title. The speculated offers out there were for a bunch of depth and potential stars on bad teams (e.g. Haliburton). Depth isn't winning the Sixers a title, and taking a gamble on 'good' players on bad teams making an impact is a tough proposition (hello Josh Richardson, Harrison Barnes, etc)--we already have one of those named Tobias Harris.

[Crissi]

not a fan fo the Mavs trade. Zingis and a pick for 2 middling at best players on stupid contracts is awful :s

[PhaelixWW]

Would anyone be shocked if his EFG% pops up 5-10%, along with his 3P% now that he's where he wants to be?

I would be. I mean, only time will tell if this deal works out for the Sixers, so we'll see.

But if you think other Curry is the same guy that Harden is....I'm not sure what to say. That turns into one of those "do you watch basketball" type of conversations (I'm not trying to insult). Basic stats also say Joe Harris is a better three point shooter than Steph Curry is. I'd guess that advanced stats may not think Seth is quite on the level of Harden (this year's).

Don't be obtuse. Of course Seth Curry isn't the same as Harden. But we're talking about fitting into a role here, and Harden's role in a team that features Embiid is different than a role on a team that features Durant and (sometimes) Kyrie. And therefore we're talking about just how much better Harden will be in comparison to Curry within that role, and whether or not it's worth the missed opportunity cost of a better trade with their hole card.

But what else were the Sixers going to get with that value? And again--what did they really give up? The future? At some point you have to cash in your chips. You can't just hold out forever--that's how teams stay in purgatory. The Sixers need to take advantage of right now--not later.

And they took advantage of right now by... sending an overvalue to a direct competitor in the same division.

But I think I get where you're at with it. The argument that Harden is declining and maybe isn't what he used to be is fair--I just don't see the Sixers getting anything remotely as impactful as Harden has proven he can be--and they gave up pieces that are not crucial and were not going to win them a title. The speculated offers out there were for a bunch of depth and potential stars on bad teams (e.g. Haliburton). Depth isn't winning the Sixers a title, and taking a gamble on 'good' players on bad teams making an impact is a tough proposition (hello Josh Richardson, Harrison Barnes, etc)--we already have one of those named Tobias Harris.

To be fair, I have no idea what other potential trades there were out there for Simmons. And I'm not arguing that Harden is bound to make the Sixers better than they were before. I just felt like they should have gotten more for Simmons than Harden.

Again, we'll see how it turns out.

[xskarma]

not a fan fo the Mavs trade. Zingis and a pick for 2 middling at best players on stupid contracts is awful :s

I mean, so was Porzingis? He's always hurt and when he's not, he's not playing that well with Luka, who is the franchise.

And then he also had that millstone contract dragging you guys down. I think you did well getting what you did. Dinwiddie is at least something that can be used around Luka and can eventually be used in other trades.

I'll give you Bertrans though. He's been bad. xD



In Celtics news, GOOD LORD. Ime didn't want to play the bench at the best of times and deservedly so cause they constantly let him down, so Brad was like "aight, let me just ship all of those guys out of town and be done with it."

Bold move, that's for sure.

In a vacuum getting Daniel Theis (who was great fit with the team in Boston and is now on a reasonable enough contract) and Derrick White for our very much not great bench + Josh Richardson + Schröder expiring + 1 first rounder + 1 pick swap is good enough to give confidence in the future.

It also gives me confidence in Brad. He handled this trade deadline great. Got a player that I hadn;t heard ANYONE talk about being on the market (White) that fills a need. He made a bunch of trades that just made sense and reshaped the roster to give it a legitimate chance to compete this year and the future.

And then the kicker, he's also managed to position the Celtics well for trades in the future. We have a bunch of desireable contracts of decent length and value to make various trades for bigger fish possible. Next offseason we'll have Horford's expiring + contracts that are movable for players with a clear role, instead of a bunch of unknown quantity rookies on low cost contracts.

And it;s not like he sent ALL the rookies out. He just sent Romeo Langford, who was the most advanced of them, but also the one with the lowest ceiling and the first contract to run out.

So we now have a balance of young players that might still develop and role players and good players and All-Star caliber players. Just a solid roster.

And the Celtics competing this year is basically just as likely now as it was yesterday, so even THAT wasn't compromised. Our starters are still there, and so is Grant Williams. Out of the 8 man rotation that Ime ran lately (Tatum, Brown, Rob W., Smart, Horford, Grant W., Schröder and Richardson) he only traded the latter 2 who were coming off the bench and turned them into Derrick White and Daniel Theis.

It's not perfect. We could use a wing, cause Nesmith is clearly not ready. But with a bunch of open roster spots we can easily get some buyout vets to fill in those roles, while giving more time to Nesmith and Pritchard to help them develop.



Depending on how fast Derrick White integrates with the guys, they could basically just go on like they have and fringe make the playoffs directly or at least make the play-in. Looking forward to the rest of this season and the future.

[StillMcfuu]

not a fan fo the Mavs trade. Zingis and a pick for 2 middling at best players on stupid contracts is awful :s

Availability and fit, unfortunately Porzingas isn't the unicorn anymore and all he really provides is floor spacing in a 7ft frame.
I also believe the Mavs have a better record without Porzingas which isn't a good look for a player who seemed like he was struggling to find a role in both the Luka centric last year Mavs and this years more plug and play system, which we saw Luka struggle with and then get past early on.

Hard truth, Porzingas had himself a classic contract year and became the face of a desperate Knicks team after losing Melo, became an all-star because who the hell else would the fans vote for. I think we as fans and analysts, constantly misremember how good some players are when they get zero attention and defenses don't prepare for them, when the secret is out many times we see they aren't the player we thought they were.
I think Porzingas is that kind of player, like Jeremy Lin, like Randle.... wow desperate organizations seem to attract flash in the pan players ..... and on the opposite side you have Giannis who get shutdown and come back meaner and better than ever.
I see this as unfortunate win for the Mavs, even if the guys they get seem middling, Porzingas was only playing a little better and wasn't around most of the time. Unfortunate because Porzingas is a nice guy and seems like he wants to win, but can't be what he was or what the team need.

[xskarma]

https://twitter.com/kylegoon/status/1492258626261557248

"Russell Westbrook said he felt discomfort in his back against Milwaukee, and adds that part of the issue is that he's not accustomed "to sitting down for long stretches"."

LMAO What a clown.

[Coniferous]

Availability and fit, unfortunately Porzingas isn't the unicorn anymore and all he really provides is floor spacing in a 7ft frame.
I also believe the Mavs have a better record without Porzingas which isn't a good look for a player who seemed like he was struggling to find a role in both the Luka centric last year Mavs and this years more plug and play system, which we saw Luka struggle with and then get past early on.

Hard truth, Porzingas had himself a classic contract year and became the face of a desperate Knicks team after losing Melo, became an all-star because who the hell else would the fans vote for. I think we as fans and analysts, constantly misremember how good some players are when they get zero attention and defenses don't prepare for them, when the secret is out many times we see they aren't the player we thought they were.
I think Porzingas is that kind of player, like Jeremy Lin, like Randle.... wow desperate organizations seem to attract flash in the pan players ..... and on the opposite side you have Giannis who get shutdown and come back meaner and better than ever.
I see this as unfortunate win for the Mavs, even if the guys they get seem middling, Porzingas was only playing a little better and wasn't around most of the time. Unfortunate because Porzingas is a nice guy and seems like he wants to win, but can't be what he was or what the team need.

I honestly think it’s just that he got hurt. 7’3” or whatever and his body broke down. Guy was a good player in his brief prime.

As far as Julius Randle, this was pretty predictable. What’s interesting about Randle is his per minute numbers from last year are pretty similar to his numbers with the Pelicans, who gave up on him.

But what were the Knicks supposed to do, let him leave? Someone was going to give him a big contract.

It’s a real problem the NBA has - there are legitimately good players that don’t help you win a championship unless they are paired with a unicorn.

As a Knicks fan, last year was awesome, even if we didn’t win anything. Just hearing those two games at the garden brought chills. At this point in my life most of the teams I root for has won a chip - only the Knicks are left. As a result no team would get me more excited if they got good.

[xskarma]

Last I checked nobody forces them to sit. He could even hop on a bike.

Jayson Tatum almost always retreats to the stationary bike, so, very true.

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Well then. Derrick White, traded to the Celtics yesterday, already in uniform and making his debut today.

Doubt he gets a huge amount of minutes, but fun to see him tonight already.

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HOLY SHIT

Not only is Derrick White coming in with the first subs and playing significant minutes already, he's been absolutely light's out while doing it. Defensively great, quick and precise passer and made a few 3s already too.

Never seen anything like this, with a guy this new on the team making this kind of impact.

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Shame that Derrick White's outstanding first game is being wasted by teh Celtics starters playing like they did pre-turnaround. Sloppy on defense and offense, not rotating correctly, not enough driving to the rim and too few meaningful passes.

Hope they pick it up, but Ime already had to call time out 2 min into the 3rd Quarter casue the Celtics were still with their heads at half time.

Need them to pick it up, down 9.

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Awesome game. Feisty, feisty defense down the stretch. Derrick White in the closing line up, fitting in like he's been here his whole career. Gave up just 42 points in the second half.

No longer just beating bad teams with their defense. Looking forward to more of this.

[xskarma]

Funny. Celtics beating the Sixers on the Sixers own court by nearly 40 and the announcers are still going "people are saying they haven't beaten anyone". Like, please, look at the score. And maybe look just at the last few games we played where the Celtics put the clamps on 2 of the best offensive teams in the league and beat them.

Hopefully Celtics can ride this game out to an easy win with rest for the starters so we still have some energy for the back to back leg tomorrow against Detroit. Then All-Star break and hopefully some healing for Marcus Smart's ankle he hurt in this game.

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Beat Philly by nearly 50 in the end. Deep bench played all of the 4th and extended the lead against Philly's bench. Fun game, in a trainwreck sort of way.

[ProphetFlume]

Funny. Celtics beating the Sixers on the Sixers own court by nearly 40 and the announcers are still going "people are saying they haven't beaten anyone". Like, please, look at the score. And maybe look just at the last few games we played where the Celtics put the clamps on 2 of the best offensive teams in the league and beat them.

Hopefully Celtics can ride this game out to an easy win with rest for the starters so we still have some energy for the back to back leg tomorrow against Detroit. Then All-Star break and hopefully some healing for Marcus Smart's ankle he hurt in this game.

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Beat Philly by nearly 50 in the end. Deep bench played all of the 4th and extended the lead against Philly's bench. Fun game, in a trainwreck sort of way.

As a person of european persuasion how long did it take for you to think seltic when you read the name instead of keltic?

[xskarma]

As a person of european persuasion how long did it take for you to think seltic when you read the name instead of keltic?

Errrr, never? Celtic Football club in Scotland was one of the most famous football clubs in existense when I was growing up. They have not done much of note lately, but the rivalry between Celtic and Rangers is one of THE old school football classics.

So it's always been "seltic(s)" for me.

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Man, I'm all for letting teams play, but these refs are literally calling nothing, even when there's heavy body to body contact and clear fouls.

Don't care which you side you call it on, but at least call SOMETHING or someone's going to get hurt out here when the play gets even more hard.

[xskarma]

Dragic finally decided on what team to sign with after his buyout. Chose the Nets, cause of course. Celtics play them Thursday, so will be interesting if he suits up immediately and plays significant minutes or not. Either way I don;t expect it to be the blow out it was last time.


Also, the All-Star game happened and Lebron won, again. He and Curry also played 36 min compared to other players only 31 at most (and the average being below 20 min, even for starters). Can see who cares more about this meaningless bullshit. You can call it competitive, but I think it's just 2 guys not being able to chill and have other All Stars get some limelight. (and they still only won by 3) Chris Paul did the right thing, and only played 2 min and gave up his minutes so others could play. He's like, been there, done that. Saving himself for a deep post-season run.

Anyway, 3 more basketball-less days and then the home stretch. Celtics have 3 open spots on their roster and we definitely need some bodies there in case of injury and to keep minutes manageable for the starters. We'll see who they sign.

[PhaelixWW]

Also, the All-Star game happened and Lebron won, again. He and Curry also played 36 min compared to other players only 31 at most (and the average being below 20 min, even for starters). Can see who cares more about this meaningless bullshit. You can call it competitive, but I think it's just 2 guys not being able to chill and have other All Stars get some limelight. (and they still only won by 3)

It doesn't really seem like you even watched the All-Star game.

Chris Paul did the right thing, and only played 2 min and gave up his minutes so others could play. He's like, been there, done that. Saving himself for a deep post-season run.

No, Chris Paul shouldn't have played at all. He broke the thumb of his shooting hand on Wednesday and is out for 6-8 weeks. He literally wanted to come in just to get his name on the box score, so he made one failed layup with his left and then departed. If you want to talk about meaningless bullshit, this takes the cake.

[xskarma]

No, Chris Paul shouldn't have played at all. He broke the thumb of his shooting hand on Wednesday and is out for 6-8 weeks. He literally wanted to come in just to get his name on the box score, so he made one failed layup with his left and then departed. If you want to talk about meaningless bullshit, this takes the cake.

Yep. I only read the boxscore, and hadn't heard about Paul's thumb. Just read it and came here to go OOPS. So, errr, OOPS.

Lesson there for the kiddies: Never just boxscore watch a game and think you know.

Figured if anything bad had happened at the ASG I would have heard but yeah it happened just before it, and I missed it. Western Conference games happen at an ungodly hour for me, and I had a decent sleep schedule for a few days.

Surprised not more was made of it in the media, cause this is a HUGE blow for the Suns, especially if Paul needs time to get back in the game once he's cleared again. It will also probably mess with his shot for a few games as he adjusts again.

[PhaelixWW]

As for the minutes... LeBron was on the floor most of the time because it was Team LeBron. And Steph, well...

Steph was putting on a show.

He scored 16 threes, and most of them were from closer to 30 feet. At one point he was 16 of 22 from deep, which is just ridiculous. Everyone kept feeding him the ball in the third and fourth quarters, once they started getting a bit more serious with the game.

He won the first Kobe MVP Trophy hands-down.

Watch the long-distance splash-fest:

[xskarma]

Kemba and the Knicks agreeing that Kemba is going to sit the remainder of the season.

Such a tragedy. Spent his career on Charlotte teams that went absolutely nowhere, then when he finally got free, his knees were shot.



From a Celtics perspective, best move Brad Stevens made this season might have been to swap Horford for Kemba and a first. His original contract on the Celtics would have kept this team back to a ridiculous degree. Love Kemba, but glad the Celtics got out when they did.

[xskarma]

From twitter:

"DeMar DeRozan over the last 8 Games:

45 PTS, 9 REB, 7 AST, 60% FG
38 PTS, 5 REB, 4 AST, 59% FG
36 PTS, 5 REB, 4 AST, 68% FG
35 PTS, 6 REB, 6 AST, 63% FG
38 PTS, 6 REB, 5 AST, 50% FG
40 PTS, 3 REB, 7 AST, 67% FG
38 PTS, 6 REB, 6 AST, 59% FG
37 PTS, 6 REB, 3 AST, 71% FG"


Is he the frontrunner for MVP now? scorign like this, not a slouch on defense. If not him, who has a better case? Embiid? Jokic? I'd argue that what DeRozan is doing is more impressive. The turnaround for Chicago with him there has been incredible and he has hard carried them over this stretch. This is also a stretch that literally beat a record held for decades.

Even if he cools down a bit from this, I feel he should be the favorite. 20-ish games to go!