Did Ret Paladins really suck in WoW Vanilla?

[OriginalName]

Yah I mean those videos are world first kills in many cases.

But the point is that your question probably doesn't have a suitable answer as most logs don't exist anymore. And on 2004 PCs, running a 40-man raid was tough enough. Add to that DPS meters (most everyone just had it set to top 10) and recording on FRAPS it took a beasty machine to be able to do that. Because making the DPS meter window actually made your PC run slower it'll be hard to find pallies anywhere on the meters in those screenshots.

And paladins used mana, so if anything the really short kills on private servers would help them.

I imagine paladins are going to look much better today than they did in vanilla, but obviously nowhere near the S tier specs.

[therealbowser]

They don't "suck", they just aren't really viable for endgame raiding. Not in the sense that "omg you're ret /kick", but in the sense that you'll be healing/buffing regardless of which spec you choose.

In PvP paladins are still a pain to fight, and they have the best survivability in the game. But they also go oom really fast and cannot attack very hard. If you level ret (or any paladin spec, ret is the least painful), expect to be sitting around auto attacking for a really, really long time.

[Mayia]

Ok, ret paladins aren't the best dps but there are a couple of things to keep in mind.

back 15 years ago we all sucked, and you always had one or two people playing their classes like dogs.. so its quite likely a lesser class played to its top skill cap will still out perform those people.. plus everyone else will be doing more damage.. its quite possible buffs will become more needed as the top dps will fight for the biggest dps and the way to buff them with paladin or wf buffs.. helps like 8 people do 10% more damage, the paladin only needs to do 20% of what they were already doing to make a whole other dps.

[wholol]

Pally in classic is the defacto defensive class, their playstyle is somewhat similar to druids , they're an attrition class.

If you want to play the BFA version of ret pala, where you can burst stuff with a huge 2H then I suggest you roll warrior instead , in classic a holy pala is better at 1v1s than ret tbh , so long as you know how to use ur kit effectively ( mostly talking about lvl 60s).

[garicasha]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...full-Naxx-gear

[Velerios]

Play what you enjoy. It sounds like you really really really mega really enjoy playing a pally. It would be a shame to take that from you. Make your own guild. /shrug

Sorry to say that, but that's totally bull****. Let's be real: people want to be successful. The typical: play what you want do not work if you always on the losing side.

To answer the question for the OP: Yes, Paladin sucked in Vanilla, they sucked at their base damage, they sucked with good gear, they simply sucked. The damage is low for ret and scales badly too. Especially ret-paladin: it is a strength-based class that requires SPELL DAMAGE for dealing damage. Sorry, but NO, forget ret paladin alltogether.
The same can be said for Prot Paladin, but here at least you can do something by using a +spelldamage-weapon. Still: this only workes in BC, NOT Classic

Paladin is a Healer, period. And if we be real: you buff and have 1 active ability: Flash of Light. That's paladin in a nutshell for classic, and i know it, since i've played one until i leveled my Priest.

[Charge me Doctor]

the legacyplayers site is gonna be good, but I actually got a subscription to warcraftmovies.com and looked at a bunch of old boss kills...after looking at 20-30 of them you can't even find a ret anywhere on the meters.

Stop looking at horde kill videos then.
Huehuehue

[Whistl3r]

TBC is the expansion for you.

[Echocho]

Depends on what you want to do. For PVE content they will not be brought.

[Mackeith]

Can we just tone down the "buffing" bit of playing a Paladin, especially in raids, a bit. Remember that we're running off 1.12 so we have Greater Blessings. Throwing out 8 casts every 15 minutes is not that bad.

[Escobar19]

Hi , very interesting.

[Super Kami Dende]

They didn't suck, there were just DPS that were better. You could still easily raid as Ret and do viable numbers. I mean lets not kid ourselves, Vanilla raiding was braindead anyway, you could be viable on any spec if you wanted to.

[Aggrophobic]

So I had the privilege to play WoW Classic and I really really really mega really enjoy playing as a Paladin.

I reached mine to 40 and the journey was quite amazing. (The class quests were amazing). I researched the class in depth and after many forum posts and youtube videos around vanilla and Paladins, it become clear that Paladins were a meme for sucking? I am more worried about 60 level content as a Ret Paladin will I be benched by guildies, because they will take a warrior instead? Can someone shine some light on this situation..

Yeah, they really do suck. If you want to play with others then you're a poor healer that also have rather nice buffs but thats it.

[Kaver]

So I had the privilege to play WoW Classic and I really really really mega really enjoy playing as a Paladin.

I reached mine to 40 and the journey was quite amazing. (The class quests were amazing). I researched the class in depth and after many forum posts and youtube videos around vanilla and Paladins, it become clear that Paladins were a meme for sucking? I am more worried about 60 level content as a Ret Paladin will I be benched by guildies, because they will take a warrior instead? Can someone shine some light on this situation..

Yes Ret Pala did/do really suck. That doesn’t mean you can’t find Guild that will tale you to raids. But you will always be a liability.

[Roxyfoxy]

I understand the latter parts of your arguments and they are probably very sound, but from private servers i've been seeing bosses dying in 2 to 1 minute(s), even in naxxramas, so I wonder will this have an impact on damage output for the classes that were historically weak due to low mana pools.

I also understand that classic will not have the easy availability of world buffs as private servers does, but I reckon a lot of guilds are going to be timing their raids with their realms' dragon slayer buff etc, much more than traditionally.

Yes there are some bosses that die in less than 2 minutes, on those bosses, mana aint a big problem, but those fights are not the ones that matter, they are just glorified trash mobs.
The harder boss fights are much longer, either due to HP pool, or mechanics that make them take longer, and those are the fights that matter. No point in having a player who only are able to keep up on the bosses that die so fast you barely noticed it was a boss

Progress raiding is what matters, farm raids is simply preparation for the next raid opening, and thats where a proper setup really make a difference.
Big difference on what content you are doing though, MC and BWL, ret paladin works fine, a maximised raid is overkill really, but when you get to AQ and naxx, you will really notice.
And if you are a guild, with intentions of clearing Naxx, you can't just start preparing for it after AQ40 is cleared, so many BiS gear pieces drop from both MC and BWL that you want to farm that place with your nr1 raid roster, so that your Naxx team, is geared to their teeth once that opens.

I'm usually in favor of bringing a few hybrids along, but only those who actually bring something to the raid, like Shadow Priest and Feral Druid, but the only good thing about a ret paladin, is that you got someone who can pick up 2H weapons, i'd rather take the shards and bring another rogue or warrior.

But i have cleared naxx on both retail vanilla and private server vanilla, whenever i plan something for classic, it is how to build a raid group thats going to kill Kel'Thuzad as fast as possible. I understand that this may not be the mentality that most people who goes in to classic will have.

[Airwaves]

They were great buff bots. Useless in every other aspect.

[Pheraz]

Nice in duels with retaliation stacked up to eternity xD

Haha I wonder what happens when people realize that most specs in classic were completely useless and just broken and not developed

[OriginalName]

Yes there are some bosses that die in less than 2 minutes, on those bosses, mana aint a big problem, but those fights are not the ones that matter, they are just glorified trash mobs.
The harder boss fights are much longer, either due to HP pool, or mechanics that make them take longer, and those are the fights that matter. No point in having a player who only are able to keep up on the bosses that die so fast you barely noticed it was a boss

Progress raiding is what matters, farm raids is simply preparation for the next raid opening, and thats where a proper setup really make a difference.
Big difference on what content you are doing though, MC and BWL, ret paladin works fine, a maximised raid is overkill really, but when you get to AQ and naxx, you will really notice.
And if you are a guild, with intentions of clearing Naxx, you can't just start preparing for it after AQ40 is cleared, so many BiS gear pieces drop from both MC and BWL that you want to farm that place with your nr1 raid roster, so that your Naxx team, is geared to their teeth once that opens.

I'm usually in favor of bringing a few hybrids along, but only those who actually bring something to the raid, like Shadow Priest and Feral Druid, but the only good thing about a ret paladin, is that you got someone who can pick up 2H weapons, i'd rather take the shards and bring another rogue or warrior.

But i have cleared naxx on both retail vanilla and private server vanilla, whenever i plan something for classic, it is how to build a raid group thats going to kill Kel'Thuzad as fast as possible. I understand that this may not be the mentality that most people who goes in to classic will have.

I get you, but it appears that looking at these private server logs, almost every boss is a <2 minute boss at the high end, KT standing out as an exception, but the length of fights on private servers are artificially shortened due to the extensive use of consumables which wont be as available in those quantities on classic, that being said I think a lot of the mentality from private servers is going to be carried onward into classic, such as organizing raids around the daily dragonslayer buff, getting diremaul buffs and more use of elixirs.

I think we'll see more development in class diversity than ever in classic, we'll probably see way more ret, shadowpriests, prot paladins showing off their viability on some encounters more than before, due to many of the drawbacks (mana) being a non issue outside of progression.

[Redwyrm]

My first character in vanilla was a ret paladin. Chose it because of its survivability (self heals, plate, bubble). I don't remember having any problems with questing or 5-mans. I didn't raid on this character though. Not because I couldn't, but because raiding wasn't my focus.

[Kathandira]

So I had the privilege to play WoW Classic and I really really really mega really enjoy playing as a Paladin.

I reached mine to 40 and the journey was quite amazing. (The class quests were amazing). I researched the class in depth and after many forum posts and youtube videos around vanilla and Paladins, it become clear that Paladins were a meme for sucking? I am more worried about 60 level content as a Ret Paladin will I be benched by guildies, because they will take a warrior instead? Can someone shine some light on this situation..

Ret is fine outside of Raids. All other content and they are pretty strong, and have great survivability/support. But in Raids, they aren't in the top 5, so generally they aren't really guaranteed a spot.