Fastest Speed Run of Molten Core By Jan 1 2020?

[AeneasBK]

Until there is enough time for a double handful of rank 14 players to grind it out; I can't imagine that it will be cleared particularly quickly that early into the progression schedule (will p2 even be out by then?) so shy of getting very lucky with Onyxia weapon drops I don't think we'll be seeing super fast clears by 1st January.

[Puri]

When we assume classic starts in august we are looking at around twenty lockouts (gracefully ignoring leveling and pre raid gearing). The only sources of relevant gear you can use for speedruns are MC and Onyxia. PVP rewards are not yet ingame in stage 1, and you cannot easily farm diremaul for almost-on-raid-par weapons and armor.
Even if we hit stage 2 10 weeks into it, gear is still in great demand and even for extreme PVP grinders the time is not enough to grind enough gear.
So apart from hunters and priests half the raid is still lacking weapons.

So my guess is we are looking at 45m+. Where we stand in 2021 would be a different question, that can only be reasonably answered if we knew Blizzard's release plan for the stages.

[Roxyfoxy]

No, they are extremly powerfull in MC because there is a lot of greens with +spellpower (a lot of spellpower) and you dont need the stamina in MC as almost nothing do raid damage that is not avoidable. You burn down basicly everything in a blink of an eye.

Good luck speedrunning MC in 2019 with melee.

Casters are shit in early content, Spellhit% on gear barely exist until BWL and ZG, mana pools are low, so you can't cast for very long before you need to drink.
Melee, pull much higher dps, and does not need to sit down and drink water for every pull.
Of course, you dont go a 100% melee group, you need some ranged, but 25 frost mages in early gear is laughable, no matter how many pieces of green + frost damage gear you get, frost mages are inefficient in a speed run, can they do decent damage? yes they can, but how many frost bolts do you think you are able to cast with that kind of gear before you need to drink?

You would be much better off with 25 Warlocks, they do less damage than frost mages, but they get no downtime, cause they can life tap to gain mana from the healers, and healers can split in 2, one group regen the other heals. But as i said earlier, casters are shit in early gear compared to melee.

Speed running is not about who have the most dps in a 30second window, its about skipping as many packs of trash as possible, taking the quickest routes, and avoiding downtime at all cost, with a full mage group, you are forced downtime at almost every single trash pull, which will probably add 20-30 seconds of drinking. basicly, you would spend more time drinking, than killing.

Melee pre raid gear, are really solid, much better than what casters can get, fury warriors for instance, dont really start replacing their pre raid gear until BWL. Rogues are great at cleave which speeds up a lot of the trash.

[czarek]

In under 1 hour no way. Maybe with naxx gear.

[Kathandira]

I think it is crazy that people think in 4 months after launch that people will beat MC as fast as people do on private servers with buffed players and BiS gear.

You can be the best players in the game, but you are still gated by gear, and you don't have the buffs provided on private servers. + there is travel time, trash clearing, and food/drink breaks. I think some people underestimate how bad mana regen is in vanilla.

People talking about Spell Power Greens. Think about the common stat layout of those items. if you are lucky, you'll get a green with Intellect, Spirit, Spell Power. but now you have jack for Stamina. Glass cannons do a lot of damage, but require a lot more attention from Healers. Healers with those same greens will also have low Stam, and require heals on themselves. They will be draining their mana so fast that people will be dying more than they should since they can get healed by a healer with no mana. Less people alive, the lower the DPS of the raid group.

Instance farming for BiS blues from UBRS, BRD, and such will take time. Especially to do so for 40 people. And even with that gear, you are only BiS for doing MC as the faster than expected pace, not a speedrun pace.

[Echocho]

Who cares? It'll take the time it takes to clear the raid, what's the point in stressing your way through it??

[Roxyfoxy]

Who cares? It'll take the time it takes to clear the raid, what's the point in stressing your way through it??

Same reason people practice at anything in the world, to become better, being more efficient, the competition against other guilds ect. Go tell usain bolt that whats the point stressing trough 100m, it will take the time it take

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I think it is crazy that people think in 4 months after launch that people will beat MC as fast as people do on private servers with buffed players and BiS gear.

You can be the best players in the game, but you are still gated by gear, and you don't have the buffs provided on private servers. + there is travel time, trash clearing, and food/drink breaks. I think some people underestimate how bad mana regen is in vanilla.

People talking about Spell Power Greens. Think about the common stat layout of those items. if you are lucky, you'll get a green with Intellect, Spirit, Spell Power. but now you have jack for Stamina. Glass cannons do a lot of damage, but require a lot more attention from Healers. Healers with those same greens will also have low Stam, and require heals on themselves. They will be draining their mana so fast that people will be dying more than they should since they can get healed by a healer with no mana. Less people alive, the lower the DPS of the raid group.

Instance farming for BiS blues from UBRS, BRD, and such will take time. Especially to do so for 40 people. And even with that gear, you are only BiS for doing MC as the faster than expected pace, not a speedrun pace.

I do think people in this thread is highly overestimating the clear times, jan 1st, id guess the fastest clear will be around 50m maybe 45m.

About gear, pre raid gear is really powerfull, most dps classes really only need a couple of gear pieces from MC, rest is dungeon blues. Or spellpower greens for mages warlocks.

Tanks and healers need more gear from MC, but healers will still use mostly dungeon blues, simple because t1 gear sucks for most classes outside of tanks hunters and maybe rogues.

You dont really need much stamina in MC, raid damage is really low, and healers got plenty of time to heal up people with mana efficient heals before more damage happens, so spellpower greens arent bad at speedrunning cause of the stamina, the lack of intellect is a bigger factor.
Healers dont use much greens of healing, except for a couple of pieces where no better item is available.

More damage > survivability in MC. Shazzras is probably the only exception to this. But with enough damage, he dies before he can teleport much.

Speedrunning like this is done by very dedicated players, farming dungeon gear is not a problem for these players.

[Echocho]

Same reason people practice at anything in the world, to become better, being more efficient, the competition against other guilds ect. Go tell usain bolt that whats the point stressing trough 100m, it will take the time it take

Horrible comparison. The point of competing in running is to get from point A to point B faster than everyone else, that's not what raids are built for.

[Kathandira]

Same reason people practice at anything in the world, to become better, being more efficient, the competition against other guilds ect. Go tell usain bolt that whats the point stressing trough 100m, it will take the time it take

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I do think people in this thread is highly overestimating the clear times, jan 1st, id guess the fastest clear will be around 50m maybe 45m.

About gear, pre raid gear is really powerfull, most dps classes really only need a couple of gear pieces from MC, rest is dungeon blues. Or spellpower greens for mages warlocks.

Tanks and healers need more gear from MC, but healers will still use mostly dungeon blues, simple because t1 gear sucks for most classes outside of tanks hunters and maybe rogues.

You dont really need much stamina in MC, raid damage is really low, and healers got plenty of time to heal up people with mana efficient heals before more damage happens, so spellpower greens arent bad at speedrunning cause of the stamina, the lack of intellect is a bigger factor.
Healers dont use much greens of healing, except for a couple of pieces where no better item is available.

More damage > survivability in MC. Shazzras is probably the only exception to this. But with enough damage, he dies before he can teleport much.

Speedrunning like this is done by very dedicated players, farming dungeon gear is not a problem for these players.

I understand that it will be completed in this type of gear since that is what it is designed for. Though I can't see it being done is a speed run fashion with the numbers that some people are thinking (sub 40 minutes). Not until players start getting into T2-3 content, then going back to MC to aim for fast times.

[Roxyfoxy]

Horrible comparison. The point of competing in running is to get from point A to point B faster than everyone else, that's not what raids are built for.

How is it a bad comparison, competing in running is not what our ability to run was built for either, its a human made competition. Raids arent made for speedrunning, but the human nature of being competitive enabled it ito become a competition, noone is forced into participating, but it is still human nature to find things to compete with others in, and seeing their abilities grow with practice. Its the same reason anyone is competing in anything.

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I understand that it will be completed in this type of gear since that is what it is designed for. Though I can't see it being done is a speed run fashion with the numbers that some people are thinking (sub 40 minutes). Not until players start getting into T2-3 content, then going back to MC to aim for fast times.

Blizzard decided to run with 1.12 itemization, which means that pre raid gear is much more powerfull than originally designed for. As well as player knowledge in stat choices have improved drastically since early vanilla.

If you got a raid group all decked out in pre raid gear, you are already overgearing MC. With the exception of tanks.

There are only a few gear pieces inside MC per class thats actually better than pre raid, still with the exception of tanks.

[sopeonaroap]

No, we cleared MC + BWL in under 2h when we had shit on farm and not using any consumables or anything like that.

MC is not hard, all you need is a bunch of Mages with a lot of +spellpower gear and you are set to crush that place. Running to the bosses is the annoying part.

i spent a little time with one of the 23 guilds that cleared naxx in vanilla. nobody was clearing MC and BWL in 2h. you're completely full of shit. that's private server numbers if you don't count the run from MC to BWL

private server numbers don't compare to live, no private server was 100% like classic is going to be

[proplays]

the fastest mc run was 19:47 pre zg so expect to see probably faster than that even considering private servers have buffed armor on bosses.

[Thunderball]

I do think people in this thread is highly overestimating the clear times, jan 1st, id guess the fastest clear will be around 50m maybe 45m.

45m will be doable in prebis gear.

[proplays]

world buffs with preraid warriors can do 1k~ dps

[Tekkommo]

i spent a little time with one of the 23 guilds that cleared naxx in vanilla. nobody was clearing MC and BWL in 2h. you're completely full of shit

One of 23

[Thunderball]

Honest question: Are we counting the pieces from Dire Maul? I don't remember what Blizzard said about that being available, but I could imagine that if DM isn't out by 1st of January 2020 then MC gear might look more attractive

There's no way Phase 2 isnt going to be live in 4 months after release.

[sopeonaroap]

45m will be doable in prebis gear.

the patch classic is using has a lot of pre-raid gear as BIS for MC, that's a big thing but 4 months to get to 60, geared, attuned x 40 people just isn't going to happen. for starters, classic is competing with retail so the best players are going to be busy at some point, if they have the desire to basically go balls out on retail AND classic is another question.

so many factors that didn't exist in vanilla. there is going to be a LOT of lagging behind, it's gonna be more like a reroll guild than vanilla, too many factors that take time away from classic

[proplays]

doesnt take very long to go 1-60 can do it in under a week if you play hardcore

[Trunksee]

Honest question: Are we counting the pieces from Dire Maul? I don't remember what Blizzard said about that being available, but I could imagine that if DM isn't out by 1st of January 2020 then MC gear might look more attractive

Dire Maul and world bosses are phase 2. Since they havent given us a time frame its up in the air. Id say 45 min run maybe the fastest. Remember you cant practice. Its one lockout per week. You cant run it multiple times in a week.

[Roxyfoxy]

Honest question: Are we counting the pieces from Dire Maul? I don't remember what Blizzard said about that being available, but I could imagine that if DM isn't out by 1st of January 2020 then MC gear might look more attractive

Without DM gear, some pieces of MC gear will be more attractive yes. but i doubt they will delay DM for too long. should definatly be out before jan 1st imho.