Should Antifa be classified as a terrorist organization?

[Mormolyce]

Andy is a Nazi? LOL also it is never ok to be violent against someone you verbally disagree with, that's how Nazi's think.

Remember how we defeated the Nazis non-violently?

Oh wait.

[JohnBrown1917]

Remember how we defeated the Nazis non-violently?

Oh wait.

The german centre-right thinking they could controll Hitler by giving him all the power did work great though.

[zenkai]

Remember how we defeated the Nazis non-violently?

Oh wait.

If someone is violent you call the police, this isn't Germany

If you recall we didn't strike first, and when we did we sent our military not a bunch of fat basement dwellers in mask who attack people who disagree with them.

[Endus]

Remember how we defeated the Nazis non-violently?

Oh wait.

Hell, there's a solid argument to be made that, had the Weimar Republic cracked down upon the Nazi Party's bullshit earlier and with greater force, the Nazi Reich could never have come about.

Treating Hitler and friends with kid gloves during the rise of their populism didn't help. It led to them seizing power, through the democratic system. Democracy isn't a protection against this shit. The only thing that worked, against Nazis? Violence. Not rhetoric. Not discussion. Not treating them as a reasonable political voice. Violence. Historically, that's the only thing that actually worked.

And given that the Nazi rhetoric was inherently violent, and encouraging mass prejudice and murder, violence to oppose it is societal self-defense.

[Edge-]

Don't forget they beat up a gay Asian reporter just for filming them, such nice people.

Why do you keep wielding his identities as a cudgel as if they factored into the attack at all?

He's not your god-damned shield.

[Endus]

Why do you keep wielding his identities as a cudgel as if they factored into the attack at all?

He's not your god-damned shield.

The simple answer is that they, wrongly, think that left-wingers only care about identity; that Ngo being both gay and Asian should be a double-whammy that means we support him automatically, and that somehow, it's a breach of left-wing values to not do so.

Which is completely batshit insane, of course. But it's the only reason they keep bringing it up.

[Endus]

Yeah, this don't sound batshit insane at all. Advocating pre-emptive violence against political enemies because, "Well they MIGHT become the Fourth Reich!" and "Democracy isn't good enough, only bloodshed can save you!"

I was pointing to actual history. The facts are that the Nazi Party was let pretty much alone, to fearmonger and inflame hatred, and that resulted in the Nazi Reich, and the Holocaust. Direct line of causation.

You're also ignoring that the violence against Nazis is not the initiating trigger of violence. Nazis are already violent, and driving for more violence.

Yeah, totally reasonable and not 100% out of the playbook of every other fearmongering, power-grabbing dictator. You sound exactly like the nutjobs wailing about "White Genocide" and shit.

"People who hate Nazis are as bad as Nazis" remains a completely ridiculous position. This is just "both sides" bullshit, aimed at defending Nazis.

[Endus]

Great, and we have laws that deal with people who are violent, or are planning violence, or are inciting people to violence.

And some of those laws include the use of force in self defense or the defense of others.

Suggesting that we need to save ourselves from a repeat of WW2 by inciting violence against anyone that we deem "too dangerous" is absurdity.

Error on the play; you're trying to argue that I'm talking about inciting violence, when I was specifically and explicitly talking about a response to those inciting violence.

I never said that, so take those words and put them right back in your own mouth where they came from, thankyouverymuch.

You said I, someone who hates Nazis, "sound exactly like the nutjobs wailing about "White Genocide" and shit.", i.e. Nazis.

I paraphrased what you said. That paraphrase was accurate.

[Jessicka]

If someone is violent you call the police, this isn't Germany

If you recall we didn't strike first, and when we did we sent our military not a bunch of fat basement dwellers in mask who attack people who disagree with them.

My good Socialist Grandfather volunteered to fight Nazis. He hated them before the war, he hated them until his death afterwards.

He certainly wasn’t the only one.

[zenkai]

Why do you keep wielding his identities as a cudgel as if they factored into the attack at all?

He's not your god-damned shield.

No bullshit excuses a mob beating a non violent man, this is exactly how domestic terrorist think, that the end justifies the means.

[Endus]

Great, so when you see that happening, feel free to act.

Literally is happening. White nationalism has a death count, and regular attacks are made to further that cause.

Because that's what you - and many other people, frankly - have been doing. You specifically said that the only response that works against their rhetoric is violence. Not that we should crack down on white supremacist violence, or act in the defense of people being attacked. You specifically said that you think violence against people holding certain views that you hold to be undesirable is the only effective course of action.

You know what "inciting violence" is?

It's rhetoric.

You're not even staying consistent in your own position.

Also, no, we're not talking about "certain views I hold to be undesirable". I think veganism-by-choice is "undesirable", but they can do whatever thing they want to do, I'll just do my own thing. We're talking about views that are inciting and fostering violent action and hatred.

If Trump or some right-wing radio host or just some random fucko on the street said, "Historically the only thing that has worked to prevent the displacement of native populations by immigrant invasions is violence." you'd rightly call them out for inciting violence, no matter how many times they claimed, "No I wasn't, I was just speaking about history!"

Also because they're lying, when they say that. Nor are we talking about "populations" at all, here.

You keep shifting goalposts.

No, I said that people inciting violence are just as bad.

That's not what you said, in point of fact.

Say what you mean, the first time, and you won't have to keep changing what you said retroactively like this.

[zenkai]

My good Socialist Grandfather volunteered to fight Nazis. He hated them before the war, he hated them until his death afterwards.

Most old men in that era where against civil rights so I don't know what your point is here..

Did he beat up reporters for showing the news? Nazis are scum I don't disagree, what I disagree with is violence in a modern civil society.

[Endus]

No bullshit excuses a mob beating a non violent man, this is exactly how domestic terrorist think, that the end justifies the means.

Who's arguing that the people who beat up Ngo shouldn't be charged? We all agree he didn't deserve the assault.

We're just also noting that he's a Nazi sympathizer and a piece of shit.

[Edge-]

No bullshit excuses a mob beating a non violent man, this is exactly how domestic terrorist think, that the end justifies the means.

[/quote]

I'm not making excuses, I'm calling you out for trying to wield his identities as a shield when they played no role in his attack.

[zenkai]

Great, so when you see that happening, feel free to act.



Because that's what you - and many other people, frankly - have been doing. You specifically said that the only response that works against their rhetoric is violence. Not that we should crack down on white supremacist violence, or act in the defense of people being attacked. You specifically said that you think violence against people holding certain views that you hold to be undesirable is the only effective course of action.

If Trump or some right-wing radio host or just some random fucko on the street said, "Historically the only thing that has worked to prevent the displacement of native populations by immigrant invasions is violence." you'd rightly call them out for inciting violence, no matter how many times they claimed, "No I wasn't, I was just speaking about history!"



No, I said that people inciting violence are just as bad.

Just because you say it's accurate doesn't make it so.

Exactly, their stance makes them a fucking hypocrite.

[Machismo]

Exactly, their stance makes them a fucking hypocrite.

I mean... are you really trying to place that label on this issue... while you pander to violent racists?

[zenkai]

I'm not making excuses, I'm calling you out for trying to wield his identities as a shield when they played no role in his attack.

I am pointing out facts of what he, what's wrong with that? Maybe pointing it out makes it harder to label him as a Nazi?

Yes or no was the violence against Andy Ngo justified?

[Xyonai]

Yes or no was the violence against Andy Ngo justified?

I don't think it was justified, but I still think he's just another face in a long line of shit-stirrers jumping on the Alt-right bandwagon because he's an amoral shitgibbon who's political views begin and end at 'Making Libtards Mad'.

The assault was wrong, but I'm not gonna shed tears over it.

[Jessicka]

Most old men in that era where against civil rights so I don't know what your point is here..

What are you suggesting, that he was a Nazi and Socialism didn’t exist? In the place where the Labour Party literally came to being? Where Marx came up with the Communist manifesto?

Did he beat up reporters for showing the news? Nazis are scum I don't disagree, what I disagree with is violence in a modern civil society.

I don’t know that he beat up reporters, but he certainly didn’t hesitate to go shoot some Fascists.

[zenkai]

What are you suggesting, that he was a Nazi and Socialism didn’t exist? In the place where the Labour Party literally came to being? Where Marx came up with the Communist manifesto?

Nope, but I think you fail to understand that your grandfather didn't shoot someone in the US for have commie views, he fought violent fascist that shot first from a different country. To compare that the same as ANTIFA not only spits on your Grandfather and other WW2 vets but it's laughable as well.

I don’t know that he beat up reporters, but he certainly didn’t hesitate to go shoot some Fascists.

I doubt your grandfather went around and labeled everyone he disagreed with as Fascist then shot them.