"Stance dancing" for all classes

[RemasteredClassic]

Would be cool as a new feature where we can be hybrid by choosing a primary spec and a secondary spec and be able to switch in combat - for all classes!

[FelPlague]

Would be cool as a new feature where we can be hybrid by choosing a primary spec and a secondary spec and be able to switch in combat - for all classes!

No, that sounds horrible, no thanks.

[George Costanza]

It would work if it was like how it was in like cata or mop.

[ls-]

Dunno, stance dancing isn't some hi-skill thingy.

In most cases it's done via "/cast stance /cast spell" macros, so as a mechanic stance dancing was pretty much ignored, and the only people who're engaging w/ it were the people who didn't actually know about macros.

In the end, it's just a hurdle that's eventually and rightfully removed.

[Kumorii]

Homogenization?`No... i prefer if some classes have it.

[msdos]

You're talking to the modern playerbase, you know, the folk who have reduced the game down to no abilities and crappy classes.

They're going to be against stances here but they aren't gonna tell you it's because they hate complexity.

That's why they're still subbed.

[justandulas]

I love it for warriors, but you’re asking a lot of this generation of wow players. The older player base grew up on games like
MUDs, eq, dungeons and dragons etc so we can get behind and understand role playing elements.

New generation wants it now, fast, a few Buttons and showered in gear rather than a steady climbing of the progression ladder

[thesmall001]

I have big complex feelings on stance dancing. I started with a Warrior in Classic, went Paladin in TBC and Wrath, before switching back to Warrior in ICC. I've played both consistently since and added Druid and Druid-Without-Forms (Monk) and Monk-Without-Animations (Rogue) to the roster in Cata and MoP and WoD, respectively.

tl;dr - Stance dancing (or seal twisting) is a cool theme, and can feel really rewarding, but is impossible to balance and works best when it isn't in the form of a bar of abilities you freely change between.

If you think of stance dancing, you immediately think back to when stances were a button on your UI that you click (or a macro you bind that works 50% of the time if you're l337 and it's 2007) but I'd actually argue this was when stance dancing was worst.

Creating a window of your rotation changing can feel awesome! Modern Sub Rogues are a great example of this: You hit a button, it's got a mid-range CD and a few charges, it allows you to break the rules of your rotation a bit and it lets you pick your window where you're strongest. This is excellent class design. (Any other issues with the class aside, this loop is excellent and keeps you engaged with the rotation.)

WoD brought back seal-twisting for Ret Paladins and that was an interesting experiment with "modern" seal twisting. But, in practise, it was an example of fantasy not living up to the hype. You changed seal every 5 GCD or so, you cast judgement, you weaved in the next change before your next judgement. It was awkward, punishing if you had to break the loop for a more important action and tedious to set up. I'm sure some people enjoyed it, even I enjoyed it sometimes, but it mostly distracted from the actual fun parts of Ret in that age (slot machine chain procs and massive burst potential).

Having that sort of option can be really thematic and cool but it isn't for every class. Paladins have lore built around their 5 tenants (Protection, Justice, Retribution, Holiness and Compassion [Originally: Respect, Compassion and Tenacity in the RPG books]) so it fits. Warriors were built around it but they mostly served to enforce restrictions on the abilities you could use with some added bonuses or penalties depending on what you were doing. It served more than one purpose so it didn't meet a singular purpose well.

It's a tool, to be used, but not blanketed across all classes in the same way. Druid forms? Thematic, creates design space, effective. Good use. Monk stances? Functionally passive, punitive, needlessly complicated. Bad use. DK Presences? Arbitrary, passive, conflicted with spec themes. Bad use. Shadow Form? Cool theme, changes the rotation, feels awkward and breaks the rotation too much. Bad execution despite good design. Ascendency for Shamans is a great example. So, it begs the question, maybe what is really fun is just cooldowns that are actually good and not just +30% haste or +50% crit for 8 seconds.

[RemasteredClassic]

A:IR, Ascent Infinite Realm is giving this ability to most classes. Mage in A:IR can switch between full fire mage (all bar abilities change) to full frost mage. Can't wait for the hate comments because it is a Korean MMORPG...IDC, can"t wait to play something that is different from the garbage I have been waiting to see change into something half of what I'd like to see. 2019 4Q, Can't wait!

[Gaidax]

No thanks. Switching specs in-combat? That shit would become pretty much mandatory and annoying at that. People will feel pressured into playing specs they don't like, especially hybrids, but so will pure.

It will basically break a game for questionable benefit (if any at all).

- - - Updated - - -

You're talking to the modern playerbase, you know, the folk who have reduced the game down to no abilities and crappy classes.

They're going to be against stances here but they aren't gonna tell you it's because they hate complexity.

That's why they're still subbed.

No, he's talking to people who might not share your idiotic bandwagon "opinion" and what's good and what's bad. The Sun does not revolve around you and your irrational hate for a specific video game, cupcake.

[msdos]

No thanks. Switching specs in-combat? That shit would become pretty much mandatory and annoying at that. People will feel pressured into playing specs they don't like, especially hybrids, but so will pure.

It will basically break a game for questionable benefit (if any at all).

- - - Updated - - -



No, he's talking to people who might not share your idiotic bandwagon "opinion" and what's good and what's bad. The Sun does not revolve around you and your irrational hate, cupcake.

You might wanna edit your post more and add more emotion and bad mouthing to it lmao.

[Kumorii]

I love it for warriors, but you’re asking a lot of this generation of wow players. The older player base grew up on games like
MUDs, eq, dungeons and dragons etc so we can get behind and understand role playing elements.

New generation wants it now, fast, a few Buttons and showered in gear rather than a steady climbing of the progression ladder

dude.. .old wow players didn't have any complexity when it came to classes. That argument is just flawed because there wasn't much or any back in the day.
Most games weren't complex in that regard... it was just time consuming, more so than now.

[msdos]

I dunno man, shaman and prot warrior was a bit complex.

[Soon-TM]

Idk, stances were ok for warriors, since it really fit their theme, were meaningful and added to the class' gameplay. But DK presences and, later on, monk stances felt really hamfisted, which was compounded by the fact that Blizz killed offtanking in dungeons soon after Vanilla anyway.

[Cosmic Janitor]

For everyone? Hell no, but I have a battle mage concept that could utlize it or at least incorporate similar concepts.

[vsb]

Honestly that's an awesome idea. And reintroduce talent tree, so people could choose and improve their preferred specialization, while still being able to fulfill another role when needed. So any warrior could tank, but prot warrior could do it better. Allow all DK specs to tank in a different ways. There were many awesome ideas in WoW that would work now.

- - - Updated - - -

Idk, stances were ok for warriors, since it really fit their theme, were meaningful and added to the class' gameplay. But DK presences and, later on, monk stances felt really hamfisted, which was compounded by the fact that Blizz killed offtanking in dungeons soon after Vanilla anyway.

How is stance for warriors is better than stance for monks? I would argue that stance for monks makes more sense, because monks are masters of martial arts and stance is a concept from martial art. If anything, warrior stances are hamfisted.

[Nfinitii]

Dunno, stance dancing isn't some hi-skill thingy.

In most cases it's done via "/cast stance /cast spell" macros, so as a mechanic stance dancing was pretty much ignored, and the only people who're engaging w/ it were the people who didn't actually know about macros.

In the end, it's just a hurdle that's eventually and rightfully removed.

Think he is talking about switching spec during combat, not warriors stance dancing.

[Jastall]

Yeah, as a longtime Warrior main, fuck that. Stances in vanilla were a total pain in the ass, especially in PvP. There's nothing fun about setting up a castsequence macro so you can efficiently interrupt shit.

If Stances are more like in Mists where Battle is used most of the time, Berserker has a niche when you take sustained damage, and Defensive helps you survive big hits, then I'm fine with them. Preferably I'd like that flavor enhanced with special animations as well. But lock shit like Charge and Pummel behind stances at your own fucking peril.

[rohoz]

I dunno man, shaman and prot warrior was a bit complex.

having a lot of spells you didnt use didnt make you complex

[Gaidax]

Think he is talking about switching spec during combat, not warriors stance dancing.

The point being lost on many it seems. Stances for classes that make sense is okay(ish), but not switching whole bloody spec midfight.