Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Endus]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've always had a dislike for her pretty much for the same reasons I dislike most other politicians: they are far too beholden to big business and far too out of touch with the average citizen--Obama included.

This is reason to not like her politics. But it doesn't say anything negative about her character.

This seems to be a distinction a lot of people miss. I think Hillary's probably a decent person at heart; I don't like her political stances much but the only character flaws I see, really, are that she wasn't insistent enough as SecState on the handling of classified material. And that's pretty minor; it would've warranted replacing her, at the time, but that's it. A mistake, not a massive character failure.

Conversely, I like Bernie Sanders' political stances, but I think pretty little of his character, for a bunch of reasons I've gone over in other threads.

Hating Hillary Clinton is just . . . insane to me. I don't see what drives the venom, at all. Reasons to want someone else to lead the party, sure. But that's it.

It's particularly silly when she's not even running. The only people who should still give a shit about Clinton are crazy Republicans trying to re-run the 2016 campaign.

[cubby]

No - she's guilty of nothing. What did she do that wasn't part of some BS Russian Propaganda? Emails? Benghazi? What?

Was she perfect? No, of course not, nobody is - but she wasn't a criminal either like people maker out to be either.

See, this is exactly the kinda shit I was explaining to @cubby earlier, there's STILL people who believe she's some criminal - despite never having done anything wrong! >_<

The person you're answering is a career MMO-C/OT shader. You're right about the overall perception of Hillary being totally out of whack with reality, of course - but that guy is just here to watch the world burn. He's a Trumpkin through and through.

edit: was incorrect about this assessment, must have mistaken for someone else

I'm really curious how Warren is doing lately. Even though Biden is my top choice atm for the current situation we're in (beating Donnie Dumb Dumb by winning key states) he might have suffered too much. Warren was always my favorite candidate without other considerations.

[Benggaul]

This is reason to not like her politics. But it doesn't say anything negative about her character.

This seems to be a distinction a lot of people miss.

I thank you for the correction since that is indeed an error of omission on my part and it is what I had intended to convey. I will say, however, that her recent cattiness has also made me like her character a little less. I get that she has nothing to win or lose since she's not in the game anymore, but some of the things she has said just appear to be out of spite and feel like trolling from the sidelines. She's driving a wedge in between factions when there should really be some bridges built instead.

[Milchshake]

Sounds like Rogan is reconsidering his Sanders endorsement. "We might just be better off under Trump".

Now other former Bernie supporters are having second thoughts as well.

Major union flips support from Sanders to Biden
The 200,000-member-strong Amalgamated Transit Union cited Biden’s electability against President Trump.

[Santti]

Snip

Wait, what? Hillary did not push the birther movement. That was Trump, and Trump claiming the she started it.

And who isn't in bed with the rich folk in USA?

[Benggaul]

I'm really curious how Warren is doing lately. Even though Biden is my top choice atm for the current situation we're in (beating Donnie Dumb Dumb by winning key states) he might have suffered too much. Warren was always my favorite candidate without other considerations.

Not well, unfortunately. She's fallen even further back from both Biden and Sanders. I thought she did well enough in the debates, but that stupid Bernie-Warren spat that arose from nothing and went back to nothing hurt her badly. I don't realistically see her recovering and winning the primary, though to be fair I said the same about Bernie when he had his heart attack, so what the fuck do I know, eh?

[cubby]

I challenge you to go through my posting history and find a post talking about Trump that is not absolutely ridiculing him, speaking negatively of him and/or attacking him.

What do I get if I find it? You admit I'm right and leave the forum?

Do I have you confused for someone with a similar name?

[Muzjhath]

What do I get if I find it? You admit I'm right and leave the forum?

Do I have you confused for someone with a similar name?

I think you do. Rochana from what I remember is more a shadow resident commie who is less overt about it than our two Dutch commies that are not overt about it at all.
Hence my dig about how anyone who employ a cleaning service for their home has to be evil.

[cubby]

I think you do. Rochana from what I remember is more a shadow resident commie who is less overt about it than our two Dutch commies that are not overt about it at all.
Hence my dig about how anyone who employ a cleaning service for their home has to be evil.

Well crap, ok - going back to correct/apologize. Thanks for the above.

[Milchshake]

What do I get if I find it? You admit I'm right and leave the forum?

Do I have you confused for someone with a similar name?

Does the time he called "Obama an Uncle Tom" count? Or all the times he called Warren "pocahontas" also count?

Using Trump's own words to attack Dems, makes a person indistinguishable from your average Fox news addict.

[cubby]

I challenge you to go through my posting history and find a post talking about Trump that is not absolutely ridiculing him, speaking negatively of him and/or attacking him.

I couldn't. You are correct. My apologies for the mischaracterization.

[eschatological]

Incorrect.

I refer you to Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hi...ther-movement/

While she didn't start the conspiracy theory (although she is very close to it's origins), the article very clearly shows multiple times over how she and her campaign kept pushing and spreading the conspiracy theory when she ran against Obama. To me that shows she is far from innocent and also a pretty awful person from a character point of view.

I mean, the article you cited says the idea that she started the Birther movement is FALSE, in big red letters right at the top.

Oh wait, you want to blame Hillary's SUPPORTERS for spreading a chain EMail? Are we allowed to hold candidates responsible for their supporters now? You seem to be very understanding of Bernie's supporters being raging assholes.

Hell, it wasn't even anyone in her campaign, except for one campaign volunteer in Iowa who was immediately fired for FORWARDING one of those chain EMails.

[Benggaul]

Sadly politics is full with a long history of politicians making big promises during their campaign but in the end just continuing on with the status quo, the status quo of making the wealthy wealthier and giving corporations more power.

But you do realize it would be the same if Sanders won?

I don't think most of the Dem field running is going in with the intention of breaking their promises the moment they reach office. I might even go so far as to say that's not what any politicians do--or even those pretending to be politicians like Trump.

Instead what they will find is that they CAN'T deliver on their promises because the way is barred by Congress, or logistics, or, in the case of Trump, law. It will be no different with Biden or Sanders or Warren or Buttigieg or anyone else. They can most certainly be an ally towards change and provide crucial leverage towards it, but they need to have a pretty solid support base within the rest of government in order to effectively enact it. Bernie is going to get absolute shit all done in office that you want him to precisely because of this. AOC and Tlaib and Omar may get behind him, but most of the rest of Congress? It will depend heavily on the subject and the means--and whether or not the GOP still control the Senate and stonewall everything.

This is why it irritates the shit out of me that people have vowed not to vote for anyone besides Bernie (or Warren, or Biden). Whomever comes through might not embody their particular politics, but saying "well, they're all just as bad as Trump" is blind at best and willful ignorance at worst. Biden might not--hell, almost certainly won't--bring the country any steps closer to the left, but it's better to be at a temporary holding pattern instead of taking giant leaps backward under Trump and his GOP. And during that time like-minded congressmen and congresswomen can be voted in to provide more support for future progressive presidential candidates.

[Edge-]

This is getting to be like the Real Housewives of the Democratic Party in terms of pointless, petty, stupid fucking drama. Social media is dumb.

[Benggaul]

Social media is dumb.

Nah, it's just horribly curated.

[Endus]

This is getting to be like the Real Housewives of the Democratic Party in terms of pointless, petty, stupid fucking drama. Social media is dumb.

Social media is as dumb as the people on social media.

The problem isn't the medium, it's a populace that celebrates mediocrity, ignorance, and ego. That last one being an often overlooked but really critical component.

[I Push Buttons]

Why is Hillary such a bad person, again? I can't remember why she should garner this much hate. I have not been paying that much attention, so is there something I've missed?

The reason she is getting bashed presently is because the other day a story broke that she reportedly commented in a documentary that hasn't released yet that 'nobody (in government) likes Bernie' and thus Bernie's cult is now out for blood.

Which is rather funny since what she said is basically an objectively true fact... Republicans don't like him for obvious reasons, he's a leftist who caucuses with Democrats... And almost the entirety of the Democrat establishment outside of a few fringe leftist retards don't like him because he has spurned their establishment his entire career and is now using them for his own gain.

[mvaliz]

The person you're answering is a career MMO-C/OT shader. You're right about the overall perception of Hillary being totally out of whack with reality, of course - but that guy is just here to watch the world burn. He's a Trumpkin through and through.

edit: was incorrect about this assessment, must have mistaken for someone else

I'm really curious how Warren is doing lately. Even though Biden is my top choice atm for the current situation we're in (beating Donnie Dumb Dumb by winning key states) he might have suffered too much. Warren was always my favorite candidate without other considerations.

Looking at her numbers, not very good it sadly seems. She was my #1, with Bernie being #2, Pete as #3 and Biden as #4 (BTW: I do see your points about the Biden and "key states", but I think Bernie has more attraction to them than you think - especially if you look at how close he came to winning those key states in 2016 against Hillary, with a couple of them only going to Hillary because the Superdeligates turned on their constituents.)

I still say (unless Bernie does a massive burp) that she's going to drop in the next couple weeks and immediately endorse Bernie - yes, I say that despite all the noise from before which was created from warren/sanders supporters and not the candidates themselves, I still think that's going to happen. I'm certain they both knew, going in, they're going to leech from one another, and I don't see a narcisistic bone between them to think they're going to just but heads out of pride otherwise durring the primaries.

However... unlike some other posters here, I'll have no problem to admit if/when I'm wrong about that as well. ;P ((leave 10% room for doubt against whatever you believe, is my motto!))

- - - Updated - - -

This is getting to be like the Real Housewives of the Democratic Party in terms of pointless, petty, stupid fucking drama. Social media is dumb.

Totally agree... especially the well-orchestrated feud between Warren/Sanders supporters! The differences are so effing subtle between the two candidates that, while they can certainly be debated, doesn't warrant anywhere the frothing-at-the-mouth internet raging they do at each other over! >_<

I still feel this pho-fire is being stoked by Russian Trolls... I mean, it's exactly how they created the Bernie or Buster group by getting them to hate the other passionately! >_<

- - - Updated - - -

I challenge you to go through my posting history and find a post talking about Trump that is not absolutely ridiculing him, speaking negatively of him and/or attacking him.

...!!! ohhhh... YOU are Rochana!!!! Oh wow, when I was talking about "What is a Rochana" and googling him/her i literally thought they were discussing some celebrity tweeting something, like a Snookie, or a Cardi-B or someone of that caliber! HAH! Didn't know it was you (ie. a poster here)! I just realized that now going through the old chain of events! >_<

Going back to edit that post now! :P

[Telogrus]

After this horrible farce of a Senate Impeachment trial, we really need the Democratic candidates to step up and not attack each other.

You do know how elections work right?

[mvaliz]

You do know how elections work right?

You do know that him saying what we "need" doesn't mean he necessarily believes they're going to follow it, right? :P

You can debate each other's position and NOT attack each other. When I hear "Attack Each other" I think of this petty "Somebody reported to CNN that Sanders said a woman can't be president!" nonsense, not "I'm not sure your healthcare plan would work as well due to XYZ funding." and opposed to saying "If you think your XYZ healthplan can work, than you're delusional!!" kinda useless bickering.