Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[draynay]

Could this whole conversation be any more petty?

[Elegiac]

Plans actually DETRACT from your campaign. And your #1 goal should be to win.

Thus, you've agreed that Bernie's campaign is not running on policy.

It certainly isn't running on competence given who he surrounds himself with.

And for political acumen? The dude's been around since the Song Dynasty and has an annual track record on par with freshman Senators. He doesn't play nice with others, so that's out.

All that leaves is personality. And as said: expect a campaign of personality to be judged accordingly.

[Endus]

Except medical professionals say that these ARE full medical records.

You should stop saying "full". He didn't just promise his "full medical record". He promised "all his medical records".

If there's any medical records of Sanders' not included, and he's refusing to release those records, then one of two things is true;
1> Sanders is hiding something (not what I really think, so don't go there), or
2> Sanders said something dumb and is trying to both not admit he said something dumb and not take flak for failing to live up to his dumb promise.

If he'd admitted he was overeager in that interview and misspoke, fine. He hasn't.
If he acknowledged he wasn't living up to that promise, but it was a ridiculous promise and the released documents provide all the information the public has any need to know, also fine. He's sort of there, but he's trying to weasel out of this not being a broken promise, when it is.

Is this the biggest deal ever? Nah. But it's another minor checkmark against Bernie, and it's his conduct around this that provides the meat of that checkmark, not the contents of his medical files.

Bernie didn't behave completely properly, here. Plain and simple. We can quibble about which mistake he made, but not that he messed up. Making that argument is nakedly engaging in Trump-supporter-style "what he meant was" bullshit. This is only becoming a thing because Bernie and his supporters are making it one, rather than just accepting the minor hit and moving on.

[infinitemeridian]

Thus, you've agreed that Bernie's campaign is not running on policy.

It certainly isn't running on competence given who he surrounds himself with.

And for political acumen? The dude's been around since the Song Dynasty and has an annual track record on par with freshman Senators. He doesn't play nice with others, so that's out.

All that leaves is personality. And as said: expect a campaign of personality to be judged accordingly.

No, it's not about policy, it's about building a movement. Aka, you still to this day do NOT understand what Sanders represents.

Sanders is an incredibly effective politician. He wouldn't have gotten his far if he were not.

[Wyrt]

Are you seriously repeating this right wing garbage?

She said that she wants her Secretary of Education - read, Secretary of Education - to be vetted by a trans student to make sure that said Secretary understands the importance of inclusivity especially towards trans children. Something very salient given who currently runs that Department.

Y'all really aren't making a good case for Bernie's camp not giving a shit about minorities when you freely circulate these bullshit talking points criticising "the woke agenda".

No, she said she wanted a child to interview the secretary of education on her behalf. That's not just vetting.

[Elegiac]

Is this the biggest deal ever? Nah. But it's another minor checkmark against Bernie, and it's his conduct around this that provides the meat of that checkmark, not the contents of his medical files.

To paraphrase Nina Turner: "It's okay to be unwell. What's not okay is the cover-up."

[Draco-Onis]

"Pearl clutching libs" make up a significant portion of both the primary and the general electorate.

You know which other candidate doesn't give a shit about anyone except his base and people who agree with him?

You honestly think anyone aside from the pundits care about this? Trump hasn't released anything close to his medical records and for all indication he had some sort of medical condition that they hid when he had a "half" check up.

[PACOX]

https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status...35626533842944

Literally your own tweet -

"While it's true that Senator Sanders has not released all his medical records, the three letters do provide the relevant medical information about his overall health, and the big important details about his heart."

So no, even medical professionals disagree.

They agree sufficient information has been provided, but not that Sanders kept his commitment. Because again, by Sanders own admission, he has not kept his commitment.

Again, if he'd never made this voluntary commitment this would all be fine and nobody would be talking about it anymore. But he did, voluntarily, and we have a thread filled with people going, "What he really meant was..." making the comparisons to the behavior of Trump and team all the easier.

What's the difference between a medical report with all the relevant information and one with technical/routine stuff like, "nth check-up on vitals".

[infinitemeridian]

You should stop saying "full". He didn't just promise his "full medical record". He promised "all his medical records".

If there's any medical records of Sanders' not included, and he's refusing to release those records, then one of two things is true;
1> Sanders is hiding something (not what I really think, so don't go there), or
2> Sanders said something dumb and is trying to both not admit he said something dumb and not take flak for failing to live up to his dumb promise.

If he'd admitted he was overeager in that interview and misspoke, fine. He hasn't.
If he acknowledged he wasn't living up to that promise, but it was a ridiculous promise and the released documents provide all the information the public has any need to know, also fine. He's sort of there, but he's trying to weasel out of this not being a broken promise, when it is.

Is this the biggest deal ever? Nah. But it's another minor checkmark against Bernie, and it's his conduct around this that provides the meat of that checkmark, not the contents of his medical files.

Bernie didn't behave completely properly, here. Plain and simple. We can quibble about which mistake he made, but not that he messed up. Making that argument is nakedly engaging in Trump-supporter-style "what he meant was" bullshit. This is only becoming a thing because Bernie and his supporters are making it one, rather than just accepting the minor hit and moving on.

Most people don't care and by admitting he "messed up" (The degree to which he messed up here is questionable) would only show weakness which he understands people dislike.

At the end of the day, Sanders supporters don't care about this, the people that hate Sanders but also hate Trump will still vote for him regardless, and the people who may be on the fence see Sanders as not bowing to this nothing burger.

[PACOX]

How many minutes did Bloomberg buy for tonights debate?

[infinitemeridian]

"Pearl clutching libs" make up a significant portion of both the primary and the general electorate.

You know which other candidate doesn't give a shit about anyone except his base and people who agree with him?

No, they really don't.

[Elegiac]

No, she said she wanted a child to interview the secretary of education on her behalf. That's not just vetting.

Uh huh.

I love this question. And the answer is: We need a Secretary of Education who believes in public education. In fact, I have two qualifications that I talk about over and over for my Secretary of Education. The first: It has to be someone who’s taught in a public school, hello? And part 2, because it came from a young trans person who asked about a welcoming community and I said it starts with a Secretary of Education who has a lot to do with where we spend our money, with what gets advanced in our public schools, with what the standards are, and I said, “I’m going to have a Secretary of Education that this young trans person interviews on my behalf, and only if this person believes that our Secretary or Secretary of Education nominee is absolutely committed to creating a welcoming environment, a safe environment, and a full educational curriculum for everyone will that person actually be advanced to be Secretary of Education.

It does not mean "I am not going to speak to this person at any point in the process". Y'all are just inventing shit out of whole cloth.

[Edge-]

Most people don't care and by admitting he "messed up" (The degree to which he messed up here is questionable) would only show weakness which he understands people dislike.

If you think admitting to a mistake is a show of "weakness", that's on you. Most people view being confident enough to own up to when you goof up as a positive. And it says quite a bit about you.

Do you know who else views admitting mistakes as a weakness? Trump. Stop making the comparisons so easy, dude.

[infinitemeridian]

No, she said she wanted a child to interview the secretary of education on her behalf. That's not just vetting.

It's not just vetting, it's an idiotic gesture that Warren thinks makes her the Pro-trans candidate. Most people can see this cynical bullshit for exactly what it is. M4A does 10x more for helping trans people than feel-good gestures by Warren. Same thing for the whole Nancy Pelosi ripping up the speech bullshit - Dems live on this meaningless gesture crap and people just aren't buying it anymore.

[Wyrt]

Uh huh.



It does not mean "I am not going to speak to this person at any point in the process". Y'all are just inventing shit out of whole cloth.

"I’m going to have a Secretary of Education that this young trans person interviews on my behalf"

Dude, can you just not read or something? She said the exact god damned fucking thing that I said she did.

[infinitemeridian]

If you think admitting to a mistake is a show of "weakness", that's on you. Most people view being confident enough to own up to when you goof up as a positive. And it says quite a bit about you.

Do you know who else views admitting mistakes as a weakness? Trump. Stop making the comparisons so easy, dude.

Sanders understands that no matter what he does, the media will continue to pick him apart. And Trump won - must be doing something right. Your average voter doesn't care about this and resents the media for going after Sanders for stupid, inane shit like this.

Why aren't we going after Warren and Buttigieg for other statements they've made that would fall in a similar category? Only Sanders gets this kind of crap and good on him for rising above it, and that's how the electorate will view it too.

[Wyrt]

It's not just vetting, it's an idiotic gesture that Warren thinks makes her the Pro-trans candidate. Most people can see this cynical bullshit for exactly what it is. M4A does 10x more for helping trans people than feel-good gestures by Warren. Same thing for the whole Nancy Pelosi ripping up the speech bullshit - Dems live on this meaningless gesture crap and people just aren't buying it anymore.

I understand why Republicans are so fucking exhausted with all this virtue signaling bullshit. Not enough to completely change my economic views or anything like some of them, but damn Democrats need to pull their shit together.

[Edge-]

M4A does 10x more for helping trans people than feel-good gestures by Warren.

Except that what she was addressing is a completely different topic.

M4A would likely entail coverage for medical care and protect them from discrimination in health care. Know what it wouldn't do? Anything relating to how trans students are treated in schools.

M4A, as you and others have said (which Warren supports, btw), is a long ways off. It's not coming anytime soon, so it's not gonna do shit for any trans person anywhere. Do you know what would have an immediate impact for trans students, at least? A Secretary of Education who viewed them as human beings deserving of equal treatment and protection under the law.

This was a really weird detour, yo. The world isn't a zero-sum game, either.

[Dontrike]

So glad we can discuss the important stuff, like if we know everything about one candidate's entire medical history or not. Sorry, did I say important, I meant stupid, 'cause it's stupid.

[Elegiac]

"I’m going to have a Secretary of Education that this young trans person interviews on my behalf"

Dude, can you just not read or something? She said the exact god damned fucking thing that I said she did.

Cool, except she actually said it in context versus cut down to snitty talking point designed to make her appear incompetent.