Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[ati87]

This is the way of the mmo champion politics forum, Trump must be in every thread because Trumpsters can't post without bringing him up.

On the topic of Sanders being the nomination, how about what he told Cooper about his plans and avoiding saying how much he is going to have to tax EVERYONE to pay for it.

https://twitter.com/NathanBrandWA/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


This is absurd.

It's a good thing that Sanders has a campaign website that explains certain things.
Plus maybe if you want to be informed stop using twitter trolls as a source of knowledge? Maybe it's a bit to extreme but the only assumption I try to make in live is that every right-winger either straight out lies or is misleads his audience by cherry picking.

Here is the thing though. Maybe the biggest issue you should have with Sanders is that he isn't pragmatic regarding his policies, if you look at what he wants to do it comes down to taken away power from the very top and spreading it around back to the people.
However Sanders policies are sound and frankly we all know it will work overal because the way western society is structured around regular people.

[Orange Joe]

It's funny watching this thread change from "blue no matter what" and "fuck bernie supporters that won't vote blue no matter what" to Fuck bernie I won't vote for him.



..... Stay classy MMOchamp peeps...

[Skroe]

I quoted you, but it goes to many others, like @Skroe :

Al Gore was also supposed to have alienated the entire Cuban community with the Elian Gonzalez drama and he barely lost Florida. In fact, we don't even (and will never) know if he actually received fewer votes. So... maybe don't bury Sanders just yet.

The Elian Gonzalez drama is generally believed by political experts to have caused Gore significant damage in 2000. But beyond that, Demographics of Florida have changed markedly since 2000.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...da-population/
https://www.bebr.ufl.edu/node/7626/r...s/9502/compare

It's population has grown from 16 million to 22 million.

In 2000, its age distribution looked like this:


In 2010, it looked like this:


In 2020, it looks like this



What you're seeing is the aging of the baby boomers. The projection (on the second link) out to 2050 is baby boomers continuing aging (du) with a rising proportion of the population of Florida in their 60s, 70s and 80s.

Furthermore Florida's population growth is being spurred principally by retirees moving there. To quote the link

"The proportion aged 65+, which fluctuated between 17 and 18% between 1990 and 2010, is projected to increase to 21.7% by 2020, to 25.7% by 2030, and to 26.6% by 2050. The population aged 65+ is projected to grow from 3.3 million in 2010 to 6.1 million in 2030 and 7.4 million in 2050; the population aged 85+ is projected to grow from 434,000 in 2010 (2.3% of the total population) to 934,000 in 2030 (3.9% of the total) and 1.8 million in 2050 (6.5% of the total)."


This is a big part as why Florida has gone from a state Democrats had two Senators and a Governor in almost continuously, to a state under near total Republican control. Democrats have made inroads with Cuban Americans (historically, a Republican-voting Demographic) but not enough to offset the influx of baby boomer retirees. Old people are retiring there faster than minorities are having babies. That is why the share of 65+ is growing.

So referencing Gore's experience in 2000 isn't really relevant. It's a very different political terrain now. Also it must be said, the Florida Democratic Party in 2000 was merely "troubled". In 2020, it's a disaster that pisses money into the wind and can't get voters to the polls. ANY Democrat, not just Sanders, has a serious problem in Florida because the FDP is seemingly reform-proof. Four different DNC leadership teams have failed to get them to clean up their act. Meanwhile the Florida Republican Party is one of the best operations in the country. A Democrat in Florida would have to significant overperform, in any event, because the FDP is one of the worst operations in the country, if not the single worst.


Good summary:
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/f...ction-10953356
https://www.wlrn.org/post/every-new-...d-two#stream/0

The numbers take into account voters who have been removed from the voter rolls for any reason, while also factoring in new registrations.

President Trump’s 2020 campaign pointed to the numbers as a crucial sign that Republicans are looking towards having an advantage in the must-win swing state.

"While Democrats are busy coming up with fabricated voter registration numbers, impeachment conspiracy theories, and radical socialist policies that would raise taxes and kill jobs, the RNC and Trump Campaign are lapping the Democrats on every front: organizing, fundraising, volunteer training, registering voters, and more,” said Trump Victory Spokesperson Emerson George. “Trump Victory is already in every corner of Florida with a sophisticated, community-centered ground game that will deliver President Trump another victory in 2020.”

George referenced a contested claim made by Democratic voter registration group Forward Florida, led by 2018 Gubernatorial candidate Andrew Gillum, that it had registered 100,000 new voters in the state this year. Through September, state data shows under 27,000 new voters have registered in 2019 through third-party organizations like Forward Florida. Gillum told Politico that it likened the discrepancy to a difference between how the group counts new voters, and how the state counts new voters. Forward Florida considers anyone who filled out a voter registration form as a “new” voter, even if they were just updating their voting address.

Joshua Karp, a spokesperson for Forward Florida, dismissed concerns on Democratic voter registration numbers, and pointed to what he said is a strategic build-up of efforts before 2020.

“There’s two numbers that really matter right now. The first one is -- we still have ten months before the voter registration deadline for 2020,” said Karp. “The other number is the current gap between Democrats and Republicans that are registered in the state.”

Democrats have over 200,000 more registered voters than Republicans in Florida, and has long held that advantage. But in election cycle after election cycle, the Republican Party has been better turning out its voters to the polls, despite the slight numerical disadvantage. Over the last two decades, it has translated to a near Republican monopoly on Florida politics.

Karp said a major factor in the 2019 numbers is the fact that the state has removed over 370,000 registered voters from the rolls this year, even as over 450,000 new people registered to vote. “Those voters skew Democrat,” he said, citing an internal analysis. The removals account for one reason why the overall number of registered voters is largely flat, said Karp.

Voters can be removed from the statewide rolls if they request to be removed, if they move out of state, are in prison, or if they don’t vote for two presidential election cycles in a row.

The Florida Democratic Party expects that its numbers will improve when data for October, November and December are published by the Florida Division of Elections.

Doing better than both the Republican and Democratic parties was the net amount of new voters that are not affiliated with any political party. State data shows that more than 50,065 net new voters registered as independents in 2019 -- more than both the Democratic and Republican parties combined.

Winning Florida is crucial to any presidential candidate hoping to win in 2020. The largest Democratic super PAC, Priorities USA, has prioritized spending money in the state in the lead-up to the election.

For its part, a senior Trump campaign advisor said Florida is so important to President Trump’s reelection strategy that it considers the state along the lines of the South, or the Northeast. Whereas a broad, multi-state region might have its own dedicated reelection staff, Florida is the only state that is in its own category.

“Florida is its own region for us,” said the senior advisor. “There’s no question that we need to win there.”

Bernie Sanders is going to lose Florida. Hell, ANY Democrat is going to lose Florida. Not just because of what Bernie Sanders says but because the FDP is a joke that can't win. And that means the path to the Presidency requires Wisconsin OR North Carolina. And god help any Democrat at the moment in the former.

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It's funny watching this thread change from "blue no matter what" and "fuck bernie supporters that won't vote blue no matter what" to Fuck bernie I won't vote for him.



..... Stay classy MMOchamp peeps...

Litterally nobody is saying that.

Exactly how many times do us people who are not afraid to call Bernie and his cult on their shit have to say that "if he's the nominee, we'll vote for him over Trump", before you people get it?

But this is the primary, not a coronation. Ironic that you want to protect the chosen one now that the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it? Pardon us if we slag him and poke holes in him and hope he loses, before he's the nominee.

But if he is the nominee, of course we'll vote for Bernie over Donald Fucking Trump. Bernie is a patriot. He's wrong about basically everything, a terrible politician. And he'll be a terrible President whose failures I'll take a particular delight in. But he's still a patriot I just happen to disagree with.

Donald Trump is a traitor and an ongoing national security incident who must die in prison.

We are against Bernie right now because we think he'll lose badly to Donald Trump. The Florida affair illustrates why and how he'll lose badly. The fact that the cult can't hold him accountable for his mistakes just speaks to how Trumphadi-like they are towards their own cult leader. But Bernie is not a danger to America. Donald Trump is. It makes it a very easy General election.

But in the primary, if you can't deal a bloody nose, maybe you all should go home and crawl under your bed. This is not a nice business. But it's fricken practice mode compared to what Trump is going to do to Bernie in the fall.

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@Skroe How do you feel about Bloomberg? Sure, he is a billionaire, but in Florida he has an appeal. I think that Bloomberg has the best shot of the democrats to beat Trump simply because I think that Bloomberg would be willing to spend the money needed to take Florida without the FDP, and I dont see him spending that money in this way if Sanders takes the nomination (which the DNC should resist with all its might. If there is a way for the DNC so award the ballot position to not Sanders, they should take it even if Bernie wins a majority in the primaries, he simply sucks in the states that matter).

I like Bloomberg personally and his style appeals to me. But he has no business running for President and I won't support him. I don't think he'd be a good President either. I think him running makes stopping Bernie, and Trump, more complicated and I'm confused how he thinks he can win. He's a smart man. This can't be all ego. He's splitting the moderate vote.

But I do want to say one thing in his defense.


His being a billionaire is a good thing, not a bad thing. We are a capitalist society - thank god! Wealth is good. Accumulation of wealth is a positive thing. Bloomberg worked hard his entire life at it. He is self-made, unlike Trump.

How many people in their life have fantasized along the lines of "if I had a billion dollars, what would I do with it?" Some people give in to their egocentrism. They would buy a cruise ship or an airplane or a big house or go on massive trips around the world. Some people are more generous. They say they'd give a big share of it to charity to help people in need. But nearly everyone has had one moment like that, where they wondered what they would do if they had near-infinite resources.

Bloomberg is a patriot because he has $64 billion dollars, and is living that scenario with respect to our traitor President. "If I, Michael Bloomberg had a billion dollars, what would I do with it? Well I'd use it to try and thwart our Russia-hugging traitor-in-chief".

He has spent $300 million already, most of it on anti-Trump advertising. He will spend over $1 billion by the time the campaign is over. It is only through Bloomberg's money Democrats have a prayer of equalizing Trump's fundraising advantage. Trump is likely to raise, through his own campaign, the RNC and SuperPACs, close to $3 billion. Democrats will likely raise on their own $1.5 billion. It's going to be by far the most expensive campaign ever. But no amount of $27 donations will equal what Trump will raise. Only Bloomberg writing a billion-dollar check will do that.

People can disagree with Bloomberg's politics, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that he is a man who legitimately despises Donald Trump and wants to defeat and destroy him on principled, patriotic gorund, and is using his own vast resources to do it.

I ask ALL liberals on MMO-OT, if you had $64 billion dollars, would you not use 1/64th of that to attack Trump, as Bloomberg has? If you wouldn't, your commitment to stopping Trump isn't complete. It's conditional. For Bloomberg, who has sworn to support ANY nominee even if it isn't him, it is complete, not conditional.

He shouldn't be running. He should be the guy building the infrastructure for the nominee to seamlessly slot into. Him running complicates that. But I don't think anyone can begrudge him being a patriot and wanting to stop Trump, even though him being a candidate is extremely ill advised. .

[Orange Joe]

Litterally nobody is saying that.

Exactly how many times do us people who are not afraid to call Bernie and his cult on their shit have to say that "if he's the nominee, we'll vote for him over Trump", before you people get it?

literally been said by a few people now. I even quoted one and called him for his hypocrisy.

[Skroe]

literally been said by a few people now. I even quoted one and called him for his hypocrisy.

WHere is the quote?

[Flarelaine]

Bernie Sanders is going to lose Florida. Hell, ANY Democrat is going to lose Florida. Not just because of what Bernie Sanders says but because the FDP is a joke that can't win.

Now I don't give Bernie a realistic chance, either. But Democrats can't just write off Florida entirely, either, for several reasons. If they do that in 2020 without trying to build something out of/instead of the FDP as it is, that impacts 2024 and 2028 as well. They also need the downballot stuff. And even when there's no chance, a presidential bid is still a good rallying cry. So in a way there's a need to act like there's a fighting chance. If nothing else, there is a need for the grasroots, the "boots on the ground" to try their best and gain experience.

[JohnBrown1917]

Well said.

Coming from the biggest supporter of the US forcing its will on the rest of the world lol

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@Skroe How do you feel about Bloomberg? Sure, he is a billionaire, but in Florida he has an appeal. I think that Bloomberg has the best shot of the democrats to beat Trump simply because I think that Bloomberg would be willing to spend the money needed to take Florida without the FDP, and I dont see him spending that money in this way if Sanders takes the nomination (which the DNC should resist with all its might. If there is a way for the DNC so award the ballot position to not Sanders, they should take it even if Bernie wins a majority in the primaries, he simply sucks in the states that matter).

Good idea to just go for mini Trump, yeah.

[Bodakane]

So you are okay with one party voting in partisan fashion but not the other? I am sure you realize that the house subpoenaed a witness CHARLES KUPPERMAN, who went to court to see if they could subpoena him...and they dropped it. Why didn't they take others to court? If this alleged fair impeachment process happened, why was Atkinson's testimony not given to the senate? Not going to rehash impeachment in the primary thread, but if you think they did a fair process, you are being dishonest...but partisan as I would expect.

MY FAVORITE PART: You don't deny that under Obama kids were put in cages, hence showing your bias in the initial offering. Complete partisan hack, I expect you to vote for Sanders and hope the communist wins.

What in the hairy fuck are you talking about?

You didn't;t address a single thing I said and you keep making up my argument and expecting me to answer for it.

This is trolling. You are a typical bad faith poster.

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The Sanders out of context quote about Cuba is just more of that Republican out of context bullshit, that they are fucking famous for.

All Sanders was doing was explaining what the Cuban people thought.

Reporter: "Do you think that the notion of a Civil War running rife in that country [Nicaragua] is a misconception?"

Sanders: "Oh god, it absolutely is... you know, it's the same thing as... they never learn. You may recall back in, what was it, 1961, they invaded Cuba. And everybody was totally convinced that Castro was the worst guy in the world, and that all the Cuban people were gonna rise up in rebellion against Fidel Castro... they had forgotten that he'd educated their kids, given them healthcare, totally transformed the society... you know, not to say that Fidel Castro or Cuba are perfect. They are certainly not. But, just because Ronald Reagan dislikes these people, does not mean to say that the people in their own nations feel the same way. So they expected this tremendous uprising in Cuba, It never came, and if they are expecting a tremendous uprising in Nicaragua they are very, very, very mistaken."

If any rational person heard this before Repubs reframed it, none of us would have had a problem with it. Wouldn’t have bothered us in the least, and likely, we would have appreciated his pragmatic take on it.

But because Repubs framed it as some negative, we view it that way. Basically we want someone to defend a comment that doesn’t need defense all because people we don’t normally agree with told us it was bad.

And again, he wasn’t defending Castro at all. He was explaining what enough Cubans thought as to why they didnt overthrow him.

I mean, do we really think Bernie is ok with Castro’s atrocities? Really? I mean cmon. He participated in the “March on Washington” civil rights event of August 1963 (where Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered his iconic “I Have a Dream” speech.

Every time you guys fall for this ****, you perpetuate it. It’s that environment where Trump and Bloomberg and their supporters dwell. Be better.

[JohnBrown1917]

Funny how Bloomberg is praising Xi now.


The ussual hypocrisy in politics.

[Bodakane]

For anyone that has had to deal with the online harassment from the Bernie camp... Only to be gaslit "it's not real", or "it's just russian bots".

No, it has been real, and some of it did come from inside his camp.
The private Twitter account of a newly promoted campaign staffer indicates that at least some of Sen. Bernie Sanders’ most toxic support is coming from inside the house.


t’s difficult to hold a candidate responsible for the vitriol of his online followers. But here, a paid Sanders staffer said incredibly nasty things about fellow candidates. Probably not unique to his campaign. But shows it aint bots either.
Some targets of Mora’s cruelest comments aren’t even rival candidates, but family members, campaign surrogates, and reporters.
Elizabeth Warren, a frequent subject of Mora’s private account, is called a “dumb Okie,” “an adult diaper fetishist” who “looks like shit” and who lied about having Native American ancestry “to get into Harvard.”

Update: Mike Casca, Sanders’ communications director, told me that “we are running a multiracial, multigenerational campaign for justice where disgusting behavior and ugly personal attacks by our staff will not be tolerated.”

Mora has been fired.

Nice to see some small steps towards

What is your complaint?

That they fired a piece of shit?

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Funny how Bloomberg is praising Xi now.


The ussual hypocrisy in politics.

What hypocrisy?

No one is supporting Bloomberg, other than people who once supported Trump.

[Ghostpanther]

I do wish the Republicans would stop criticizing Bernie until after he wins the primary. But keep up the attacks on the rest of the field.

[Machismo]

I do wish the Republicans would stop criticizing Bernie until after he wins the primary. But keep up the attacks on the rest of the field.

Yes, thanks for admitting that all of this is coming from Republicans.

[I Push Buttons]

What is your complaint?

That they fired a piece of shit?

That the Cult of Bernie has been dismissing criticism of the vile nonsense they spew as "Its not real!" to "Its just trolls, not real Bernie supporters!" and now "Its Russian agitators!"...

While actual paid employees of the Sanders campaign are doing it.

[Draco-Onis]

That the Cult of Bernie has been dismissing criticism of the vile nonsense they spew as "Its not real!" to "Its just trolls, not real Bernie supporters!" and now "Its Russian agitators!"...

While actual paid employees of the Sanders campaign are doing it.

So you know for a fact that all of Bernie campaign employees are doing it?

[JohnBrown1917]

What hypocrisy?

No one is supporting Bloomberg, other than people who once supported Trump.

You know i'm talking about Bloomberg himself... right?


Jesus fuck...

[I Push Buttons]

So you know for a fact that all of Bernie campaign employees are doing it?

Where did I even almost claim that?

[Draco-Onis]

Where did I even almost claim that?

You said employees of Sanders campaign are doing it when it's so far just one guy.

[I Push Buttons]

You said employees of Sanders campaign are doing it when it's so far just one guy.

His national press secretary is in hot water and even apologizing/retracting statements over the bullshit she spews regularly at this point.

[Bodakane]

That the Cult of Bernie has been dismissing criticism of the vile nonsense they spew as "Its not real!" to "Its just trolls, not real Bernie supporters!" and now "Its Russian agitators!"...

While actual paid employees of the Sanders campaign are doing it.

He was fired.

They found a perpetrator of that and removed him. Jesus christ.

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You know i'm talking about Bloomberg himself... right?


Jesus fuck...

I read into what you were saying that there was an indictment of the supporters. Reading it again, I'm not sure where or how I got that. My bad, I 'm sorry.

[Draco-Onis]

His national press secretary is in hot water and even apologizing/retracting statements over the bullshit she spews regularly at this point.

What does that have to with our assertion that Bernie's campaign employees are the ones behind the vitrol? while I am sure you will find bad apples in any campaign it's not like he has white supremacists, Neo Nazi, undeclared foreign agents, sexual predators and domestic abusers on his payroll like the guy you support.