Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Edge-]

Trump spent much of the general election working quite hard at ensuring that Republicans who had voted against him in the primary would vote for him against Clinton. He did not receive a free vote. There were significant outreach efforts.

Like what, for example?

[Benggaul]

Its a shame so many Warren voters wasted thier votes.

They voted for their preferred candidate, so their votes weren't wasted. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Bodakane]

Oh, do tell what this issue is. I want to see it. I can think of a few, but I don't want to assume.

I've explained it numerous times.

The Dems are center and panic and always start the process from where the compromise should end.

They want $1500 for a used car so instead of posting the ad with $2000 or best offer, they post the ad at $1500 or best offer. The Repubs always get closer to what they want because of it and keep moving more and more right pulling the dems and the country with them.

If you disagree with what I said, that's your right, but you'd be wrong, which is also your right.

[Draco-Onis]

Warren is younger than both Biden and Bernie. You can lose the "too old" argument if you're backing either of them. She also showed more fire the past two debates than she had in months, and certainly more than Bernie's shown pretty much this entire cycle.

She's still in her 70s they would want to move away from that age group.

[Sorshen]

Except Republicans, who hated Trump in the primary, held their nose and voted for him. In lockstep....

Being spineless is not really a great thing to look up to. But that's the shitty political landscape, a guy can insult your wife in public and you still become his doormat.

[cubby]

Yeah the 2nd most popular moderate in the race lol.

God the lack of self-awareness is just astounding.

From you it really is. Do you realize you just admitted I was right, and then called me out for being right, about my own point - and then questioned my self-awareness.

[Edge-]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas...b644545ea4c2cc

Reminder: The enemy isn't the other Democrat running, it's the Republican party.

[eschatological]

the fuck are you talking about.

I love this tactic of mods dishonestly putting words in peoples' mouths.

What a noble quality.

IDK, I keep hearing how we can't compromise because Republicans never compromise, so we lose when we put forth centrist candidates because we start the negotiations off shitty. And that we need to "play by the new rules," whatever those are, by swinging hard to the left in the other direction. I don't know if you said it specifically, but it's been a theme for about the past 10 pages of this thread.

One rule that Republicans always stick to, no matter if the nominee swings from Romney to Trump in one cycle, is being in utter lockstep behind the nominee. Lindsey Graham literally did a fucking 180 backflip or some shit, from criticizing him harshly in the spring to being his biggest cheerleader in the fall. His former primary opponents, like Rubio and Cruz, came hat in hand begging for forgiveness and to advocate for him.

So how about we play by that rule?

I responded to you in particular because, again, you're spouting utter nonsense.

Edit: As for the idea that Trump "earned those votes" by outreaching to those candidates.......that's utter garbage. He didn't do anything of the sort. He went from rally to rally chanting "Lock Her Up" even though the RNC wanted him to tone it down, and going on disgusting tirades around the country. He attacked a Gold Ribbon family who dared to be Muslim. When his comments on the bus got leaked, every one of them lined up behind him dutifully to explain to us his explanation of it being "locker room talk" meant it wasn't disqualifying for him as a candidate, including his righteous, holier-than-thou running mate who ran purely on being a fucking religious, moral dude.

[Benggaul]

So America shall continue to be 50 years and counting behind every other nation because of irrational disproven fears.

In short: Yep. Well, that and because of a forbidden topic we're not allowed to discuss even though it's pretty central to American culture as a whole.

The good news is that America is slowly growing out of all of that nonsense. The bad news is that it is slowly growing out of it. I have a feeling climate change is going to rise up and beat the shit out of the US before we get around to nice things like M4A so we'll have our hands full.

[eschatological]

As a brief aside, I don't think this race is particularly over. Not a single Rust Belt state has voted yet. The closest you can say that did was Minnesota, which was skewed a bit by Klobuchar endorsing Biden. And important swing states like Florida haven't voted yet either.

If Bernie can do well in the former "blue wall" that Hillary lost so thoroughly, that's a strong argument for his case. The states in that equation: PA, OH, WI, MI, to a lesser extent IN, and to an even lesser extent Illinois (though I'd be surprised if Illinois didn't go Biden).

Biden, though, is just the moderate to kind of win back that union vote. His "Amtrak-riding" persona has long resonated with the Rust Belt. If he can win in the Rust Belt, then I think it's truly over for Bernie.

[cubby]

A large minority is still a minority.

Exactly. So the majority pushing progressive policies might need to consider that it's not quite time.

Biden is the compromise. I don't see how you're not getting that.

Compromise is what we elect. I don't see how you're not getting that. Your list just demonstrated that.

Why would it? You guys are fighting to give them a centrist, who doesn't;t have the best chance of winning and already has an investigation waiting on him once he wins the nom that Trump will use the same way he did butter emails.

Because we know that the GOP isn't compromising, officially, on anything. Sure the Democrats are slow on the uptake, but we're awake now. When Sanders/Biden rolls into the Office in 2021 (hopefully) we will be kicking some serious ass.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that we won't.

[Bodakane]

IDK, I keep hearing how we can't compromise because Republicans never compromise, so we lose when we put forth centrist candidates because we start the negotiations off shitty. And that we need to "play by the new rules," whatever those are, by swinging hard to the left in the other direction. I don't know if you said it specifically, but it's been a theme for about the past 10 pages of this thread.

One rule that Republicans always stick to, no matter if the nominee swings from Romney to Trump in one cycle, is being in utter lockstep behind the nominee. Lindsey Graham literally did a fucking 180 backflip or some shit, from criticizing him harshly in the spring to being his biggest cheerleader in the fall. His former primary opponents, like Rubio and Cruz, came hat in hand begging for forgiveness and to advocate for him.

So how about we play by that rule?

I responded to you in particular because, again, you're spouting utter nonsense.

Edit: As for the idea that Trump "earned those votes" by outreaching to those candidates.......that's utter garbage. He didn't do anything of the sort. He went from rally to rally chanting "Lock Her Up" even though the RNC wanted him to tone it down, and going on disgusting tirades around the country. He attacked a Gold Ribbon family who dared to be Muslim. When his comments on the bus got leaked, every one of them lined up behind him dutifully to explain to us his explanation of it being "locker room talk" meant it wasn't disqualifying for him as a candidate, including his righteous, holier-than-thou running mate who ran purely on being a fucking religious, moral dude.

That was me not Krazy.

I've also stated numerous times I'm voting for whoever the democrat nom is, I'm just sick you people defending moderates acting you're the ones the right strategy when its a strategy that failed and failed miserably just 4 years ago against the same piece of shit. And it is the same strategy that has helped the repubs pull this country more and more right. Instead of looking inward, you want to blame everyone else who doesn't agree with your, "march in there and kiss their asses long enough to affect change" approach. You guys were arrogant in 2016 and you're arrogant now, so much so, you tell everyone else "fuck your plan, its stupid and go with ours or its your fault if we lose".

Trump and the Repubs wanted the nom to be Biden.

[We are covfefe]

I've explained it numerous times.

The Dems are center and panic and always start the process from where the compromise should end.

They want $1500 for a used car so instead of posting the ad with $2000 or best offer, they post the ad at $1500 or best offer. The Repubs always get closer to what they want because of it and keep moving more and more right pulling the dems and the country with them.

If you disagree with what I said, that's your right, but you'd be wrong, which is also your right.

So you're saying that moving to the left will work, despite the fact that there's hundreds of bills in the senate sitting there waiting to die with McConnell present? How far left are you willing to go, knowing full well that nothing will change for years?

Forgot to mention the general disagreement among Democrats in general, while Republicans will vote lock in step on most subjects, regardless of their legality or consequences.

[Bodakane]

Exactly. So the majority pushing progressive policies might need to consider that it's not quite time.

Honest question, are you aware you 're saying the majority need to pander to the minority if they want to win elections?

Compromise is what we elect. I don't see how you're not getting that. Your list just demonstrated that.

Yes, that's my point Cubby. All we doing is elect centrists and because of that we are helping the Repubs pull this country more and more right. I mean I'm saying "the problem,em is we keep electing centrists and we should stop it" and you're counter argument is "we always elect centrists".

Because we know that the GOP isn't compromising, officially, on anything. Sure the Democrats are slow on the uptake, but we're awake now. When Sanders/Biden rolls into the Office in 2021 (hopefully) we will be kicking some serious ass.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that we won't.

I honestly feel like we are speaking different languages.

If we are awake now, why are playing the EXACT SAME PLAYS?!?!?!?!?!? I keep saying we are doing the same thing that insult working, and you're response is to point out this time will be different because we're doping the same strategy.

- - - Updated - - -

So you're saying that moving to the left will work, despite the fact that there's hundreds of bills in the senate sitting there waiting to die with McConnell present? How far left are you willing to go, knowing full well that nothing will change for years?

So you're saying McConnell has a stranglehold on the country so to make change happen, give him whatever he wants?

[eschatological]

I've also stated numerous times I'm voting for whoever the democrat nom is, I'm just sick you people defending moderates acting you're the ones the right strategy when its a strategy that failed and failed miserably just 4 years ago against the same piece of shit. And it is the same strategy that has helped the repubs pull this country more and more right. Instead of looking inward, you want to blame everyone else who doesn't agree with your, "march in there and kiss their asses long enough to affect change" approach. You guys were arrogant in 2016 and you're arrogant now, so much so, you tell everyone else "fuck your plan, its stupid and go with ours or its your fault if we lose".

Hillary losing in 2016 was not a referendum on "moderates" losing. It was a referendum on how hated Hillary was. And we're seeing that now in Bernie's lower percentage of the turnout. It seems people turned out in 2016 to vote AGAINST HRC. Hell, that's why Bernie, a fringe candidate in 2015, mounted a serious challenge to her in the first place.

2016 was the first time in a long time the moderate lost. Even GWB ran on "compassionate conservatism," and that he was moderate enough to not turn off voters. Reagan did the same. Obama ran as a progressive but offered up no progressive planks in his platform except for hoping for universal health care.

Look, I want a progressive candidate. But hey, it looks like progressives are going to lose this one. And it doesn't blind me from the fact that moderates usually win against people claiming to be extremes (like Trump). 2016 is a unique clusterfuck which will be studied for decades in Poli Sci classes across the country.

Edit: 2018 should show you that moderates don't lose. We flipped the House on the backs of moderates. It's what the American public wants, sadly.

[We are covfefe]

So you're saying McConnell has a stranglehold on the country so to make change happen, give him whatever he wants?

Did you even read a thing that I said? Or did you just want to talk past me instead? Did I ever mention give him what he wants? Can't say that I did. What I did say though, was that as long as he is there, don't expect much to change should Bernie or Biden win the presidency. As long as McConnell controls the senate, there isn't going to be a lot of change occurring by democrats unless he gets voted out or sent to prison (I wish).

That doesn't mean give McConnell everything he wants. Fight his proposals as much as possible, most of them are horrible. It's just the reality that we are dealing with now, regardless of who wins the presidency.

[Thekri]

I think there's a strong possibility that despite whatever ill-feeling there may have been between Warren and Sanders, that she could just come full bore on support for him. I don't know how much that may change the race however.

Honestly I don't think it would help him much. I think Warren voters either like her for her personal characteristics (Like me), or like progressive policies, but can't stand Bernie for some reason.

After all, if you like Bernie and Warren both for their policies, you are going to be voting Sanders, because Warren never got off the ground as a candidate once the voting started. So the Warren voters that remain have some reason to stick with her over Sanders, and I don't think those reasons change even if she endorses Sanders.

[Telogrus]

Right so, rig the game, make bad decisions, except no responsibility, but if others don't play along that ridiculous strategy, it is their fault????? Makes no sense.

I'm saying as that as someone who would vote for meth addict's used condom over Trump, and plan to vote for whoever gets the Dem nom. But you guys are just straight up not listening to the problems.

You think trump is the problem, when he's a symptom.

The left not being actually left is the problem. The Dems and their bullshit adherence to considering anything slightly left of the current Repub to be "liberal" is the problem. All it does is push the repubs more right BECAUSE no one is stopping them.

Again, you guys better fucking be right and Biden better fucking win.

I'm worried that if Biden becomes president, he will make Dems lose big in 2024/28

[Benggaul]

She's still in her 70s they would want to move away from that age group.

Then I guess they should stop picking people like Biden and Bernie to begin with.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

honestly does it even matter who gets elected or not with the way the coronavirus is spreading?