Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[DKjaigen]

He's got two choices; transition to a new line of work, or become unemployed and not work at all.

Mind you, it's those of us backing this kind of stuff who also support the programs that'll keep his family afloat if he prefers the latter.

As for "keeping your existing job forever", that's not even on the table as an option. Anyone selling you that is lying to your face, and you're choosing the lie that makes you happy over the uncomfortable truth.

And that's not really a basis for a reasonable position. You can empathize that things aren't ideal, but that empathy does not change the facts.

No he doesn't have a choice. You cannot shove the entirety of America´s working class of the secondary sector into the tertiary sector.

[Gaidax]

and what about that 20 year old one? you know the son of that 50 year old worker? and a 50 year is not that old, and very much capable in transitioning SPECIFICALLY WHEN HIS OLD JOB NO LONGER EXISTS! Like how how Murrey energy (the largest private coal) filed chapter 11 back in Oct.

As for "other fields" its dependent on region, so yes when we are hypothetically speaking of things in a general sense, I don't know which field in specific, but you know who does, and has accounted such things EVERY FUCKING MAJOR NATIONAL DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTIAL FOR THE LAST FUCKING DECADE.

There jobs can literally be gone this year and then what? which goes back to



which do you think these people are gonna go with?

Average age of a coal miner is 50. Source: National Mining Association. That's from 2007, but I doubt things swung much since.

Google it.

[Endus]

Or he has 3rd choice - vote people who guarantee they won't actively sabotage his workplace, which is what people just did in 2016.

You had this shit literally happening in front of you and you learned nothing?

Nobody is "actively sabotaging" shit.

The coal industry has been declining for years. It's an industry that is past it's time, and is being phased out not by governments, but by energy companies, because there's no more profit to be had there. Trying to salvage it is like trying to save the blacksmithing industry during the Industrial Revolution. There might be a few niche speciality jobs here and there, but as an industry? It will not exist any more, because there's no demand for the product.

That isn't "sabotage", that's a global community technologically moving past the need for a dirty, inefficient, expensive product. No country and turn back the clock on that. At best, the government can give the workers money to keep the mines going, and in that case, we'd be a lot more efficient to just pay the workers directly and not require them to risk their lives and health in the mines. And again; the only people making that argument are those on the left wing, who you're attacking. Literally the only ones offering to do anything that could actually help those workers. Rather than give them empty promises that you know you'll never make good on.

[Gaidax]

No he doesn't have a choice. You cannot shove the entirety of America´s working class of the secondary sector into the tertiary sector.

Pretty much.

[starlord]

Coal miner thinks what other people all over the country think - "You want my vote? Address MY concerns."

That's how Democracy works. You have people like Edge who are ideologically enslaved to whatever camp they belong and will give vote just because of that, but a lot of people are not like that - yes once in 4 years people deserve to have "special treatment", it's what it is about.

It's like elementary stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Or he has 3rd choice - vote people who guarantee they won't actively sabotage his workplace, which is what people just did in 2016.

You had this shit literally happening in front of you and you learned nothing?

you might have a better point if it was true that people voted for trump for economic reasons; research hasn't backed that up.

Research on Iowa counties that swung from Obama to Trump indicates that GOP success was driven far more by sexism and racism than by economic anxiety.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/psmag.c...crats-to-trump

[NED funded]

Oh sure lets forget that transitioning involves years of poverty . if you have a house or car on a loan you can kiss it goodbye , your community is going to be torn to shreds and you have to start your entire career again so you will earn much less. Not to mention some people are to old or simply dont have the intelligence to transition.
And then some democratic tells you ; its just feelings bruh. Get wrecked in November 2020 . You deserve it to see everything you hold dear get utterly destroyed .

Democrats are the only party that want to expand welfare programs and want to make healthcare so that the transition is smoother or that the poverty isn't as harsh.

If you are insecure about your future it seems dumb to vote for the party that actively wants to sabotage the ACA with no plans of a replacement, limits welfare programs and continues to defund government organizations that focus on ensuring that people have some security while they transition or if they live in poverty.

Anyways, Trump voters are wealthier than the ones that voted for Hillary were so I don't get why people bring this up

[Endus]

No he doesn't have a choice. You cannot shove the entirety of America´s working class of the secondary sector into the tertiary sector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_m..._United_States

About 50,000 workers in the coal industry, in the USA, today (well, 2016). So you can stuff the emotional hyperbole.

[Shadowferal]

So...coal miner is in the same trap that minimum wage workers are in...WELCOME TO THE PROLETARIAT!

[DKjaigen]

Are you saying that they're trapped?

Well you might escape if you are young between 20/30 don't have a family and don't have a loan on your house. everything else? yeah you are trapped

[Telogrus]

HAHAHA, is this who you want for President?

I’ve pretty much decided that I’m not gonna vote in November if Biden is the nominee. If Biden Boys want to be annoying about it, then maybe I’ll vote for Trump

[Edge-]

Or he has 3rd choice - vote people who guarantee they won't actively sabotage his workplace, which is what people just did in 2016.

Nobody is actively sabotaging their workplace. Hillary never said that. At least not when you listened to her comments and didn't just gobble up the soundbite that conservative media ran with - https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...all-of-mirrors

Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let’s reunite around politics that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these under-served poor communities. So, for example, I’m the only candidate who has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right, Tim? [Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) was in the audience.]

And we’re going to make it clear that we don’t want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories. Now we’ve got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don’t want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce energy that we relied on.

Red was all conservative media and most folks ran with. Bold was her literally saying that she wants to bring more jobs to help these people deal with the current and upcoming job losses that would arise as the world continues to move away from coal.

You had this shit literally happening in front of you and you learned nothing?

In this example, your "3rd choice" is literally people ignoring reality and lying to themselves. A fundamentally irrational and self-harming position to take.

Which you somehow seem to want to place blame on Democrats for, while pushing for Democrats to make similarly impossible promises and lie to voters.

And the coal industry isn't even that significant in terms of the overall workforce. It's just another microcosm that gets blown up into a major issue.

[Shadowferal]

Well you might escape if you are young between 20/30 don't have a family and don't have a loan on your house. everything else? yeah you are trapped

Just like most doing min wage work.

[Gaidax]

Nobody is "actively sabotaging" shit.

The coal industry has been declining for years. It's an industry that is past it's time... *blah blah*

It does not mean people who work there will bum rush to vote in those who are raring to finish it off.

I have plainly explained the thought process. You can pout about it all you like, but reality is that old miners (which is the majority) want the thing to last until retirement - they aren't going to vote in people who want to expedite the end, no matter how much you keep claiming - "you have no choice".

"You have no choice" was never a good elections pitch.

[Endus]

Well you might escape if you are young between 20/30 don't have a family and don't have a loan on your house. everything else? yeah you are trapped

Again, the irony being that the party offering to help them out of that "trap" is the Democrats.

The Republicans are telling them they should love that trap and make their lives there, they'll never have to worry about the trap closing. Even though it is. It's already moving. And the Republicans not only won't, but can't stop it from closing. They're straight-up lying to these people, to ensure they get hurt as badly as possible when the trap snaps shut on them.

[Gaidax]

you might have a better point if it was true that people voted for trump for economic reasons; research hasn't backed that up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/psmag.c...crats-to-trump

Driven more does not equate to the secondary driver having no effect.

Really, stop thinking in absolutes. That's how you lose.

[Stormspellz]

Oh sure lets forget that transitioning involves years of poverty . if you have a house or car on a loan you can kiss it goodbye , your community is going to be torn to shreds and you have to start your entire career again so you will earn much less. Not to mention some people are to old or simply dont have the intelligence to transition.
And then some democratic tells you ; its just feelings bruh. Get wrecked in November 2020 . You deserve it to see everything you hold dear get utterly destroyed .

transitioning with "training wage" in a fast tract program vs not having a job or prospects is pretty easy choice in my eyes

[DKjaigen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_m..._United_States

About 50,000 workers in the coal industry, in the USA, today (well, 2016). So you can stuff the emotional hyperbole.

Oh yes it was only the coal industry that was suffering from globalism. That why rustbelt all voted for Hillary in 2016.

[Telogrus]

Anyone else think it’s funny that all the “woke” people are supporting “Sleepy” Joe?

[Gaidax]

Again, the irony being that the party offering to help them out of that "trap" is the Democrats.

The Republicans are telling them they should love that trap and make their lives there, they'll never have to worry about the trap closing. Even though it is. It's already moving. And the Republicans not only won't, but can't stop it from closing. They're straight-up lying to these people, to ensure they get hurt as badly as possible when the trap snaps shut on them.

Buddy, a person who is 50 years old is by all means trapped. That's the end of the line. They are not going to get same salary anywhere else, they are too old to learn new tricks and even if they do - they will be pushed away by younger and more competitive applicants.

Coal miners who earn 70k a year, won't be thrilled working as security guards half that amount at best.

[Shadowferal]

Sanders campaign co-chair floats Warren for VP slot

Rep. Ro Khanna, a national campaign co-chair for Bernie Sanders, on Friday called Elizabeth Warren "an outstanding choice" to become Sanders' running mate should he capture the Democratic presidential nomination.

The California Democrat told MSNBC he would "absolutely" advise Sanders to name a woman as his vice presidential pick, and singled out the Vermont senator's colleague from Massachusetts when asked who specifically he would recommend.

"Maybe Sen. Warren," Khanna said. "I mean, I've said Senator Warren would be an outstanding choice. There will be other outstanding choices."