Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[breadisfunny]

Bringing out more voters is another key tenet of the DNC strategy - and it's working in droves so far. 2018 was yuge. The Primary turnout, pre-coronapocalypse, was better than 2016/2012 and was pushing 2008.

But the Obama-->Trump voter is a legitimate target, and a key one in battleground EC states. If you have an issue with the study, bring something to the table to rebut it.

to be a bit grim if they are going for the older set then wouldn't coronavirus potentially bite them in the ass since it would/could make the younger crowd more prominent causing yet ANOTHER potential trump election win if they sit this out/vote third party like they did in 2016?
i mean with the amount of deaths this could be a real possibility. not that i would hope for it since i have several family members 70+.
and one who is approaching 80. (yes i realize it doesn't ignore the younger crowd but it is less deadly among younger people.)
i really wish at this point we had a legit left wing or left leaning party to vote for outside of the green party who barely scrape 5% each election cycle. (the dnc at this point is more center right than anything.)

[Theodarzna]

Actually I'm not sure this 100% true. Its a GOP talking point that they wield against government action.

This is correct. And again, we invent money all the time for wars, for give away's to banks, and to save financiers. Hell we just conjured enough money to forgive all student loan debt four times over in the last three weeks.

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More like the living embodiment of a GOP supporter who concern trolls left-wing causes.

I had no idea "Not doing Universal Healthcare cause it might be hard" is a Left-Wing position.

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Also, speaking of Biden's response of "We need to reopen those Obamacare exchanges!", given the cost of even deductibles, that is an insane ghoulish response to the moment.

Americans without insurance are being charged $42,486 to $74,310 for Coronavirus treatment per the link I gave.

Americans with insurance are forced to pay a portion of $21,936 to $38,755 for Coronavirus treatment as that link explains.

So even if people get insured after losing that previous healthcare tied to their chronically insecure job, they are still paying some ridiculous premium per month, and even if they aren't they are now on the hook for 20k+ in medical debt anyway. Oh, and when they get a job again their premiums will go back up and they will still have 20k+ in medical debt that thanks to Joe Biden's tireless advocacy in the Bankruptcy bill, they are stuck with probably. Surviving Coronavirus is the new home mortgage / student loans I guess.

Democrats running Biden is just conceding the election with extra steps. Democrats rejecting Universal Healthcare is a terrible idea as well.

[cubby]

Democrats running Biden is just conceding the election with extra steps. Democrats rejecting Universal Healthcare is a terrible idea as well.

You just keep beating this drum, pretending 2016 is the same as 2020 - when objectively it's not. I bet you can't tell us why.

Biden's position on UHC is irrelevant right now. The only goal is to get Trump out of office. Running the most conservative campaign, as a Democrat, while not making the campaign mistakes of 2016, and assuming nothing is certain until Nov 4, is the best strategy.

Moreover, any calls to have Sanders be the nominee were defeated in the Primary - it was made abundantly clear that Democrats want Biden.

[Machismo]

This is correct. And again, we invent money all the time for wars, for give away's to banks, and to save financiers. Hell we just conjured enough money to forgive all student loan debt four times over in the last three weeks.

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I had no idea "Not doing Universal Healthcare cause it might be hard" is a Left-Wing position.

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Also, speaking of Biden's response of "We need to reopen those Obamacare exchanges!", given the cost of even deductibles, that is an insane ghoulish response to the moment.

Americans without insurance are being charged $42,486 to $74,310 for Coronavirus treatment per the link I gave.

Americans with insurance are forced to pay a portion of $21,936 to $38,755 for Coronavirus treatment as that link explains.

So even if people get insured after losing that previous healthcare tied to their chronically insecure job, they are still paying some ridiculous premium per month, and even if they aren't they are now on the hook for 20k+ in medical debt anyway. Oh, and when they get a job again their premiums will go back up and they will still have 20k+ in medical debt that thanks to Joe Biden's tireless advocacy in the Bankruptcy bill, they are stuck with probably. Surviving Coronavirus is the new home mortgage / student loans I guess.

Democrats running Biden is just conceding the election with extra steps. Democrats rejecting Universal Healthcare is a terrible idea as well.

Once again, that is exactly what you want.

So, you are upset that Biden wants to help people pay less, swearing he's not doing enough. So you want to side with the people who want them to pay more, because... the lulz.

That's a bold move, Cotton.

[Lenonis]

Both that Sanders supporters are cultishly obsessed with Sanders, but not so obedient as to listen to him when he asked them to vote for Hillary, indeed as he went out to stump for Hillary his rallies dwindled down as nobody cared for a Hillary shilling rally.

The point of this is that many of Sanders' supports say they care deeply about progressive issues and that is why they'll sit the election out or vote for Trump.

Which is just so obviously fake -- because anyone who cares about progressive issues is going to vote for Biden. Period. Because Biden is the progressive choice in a Trump v Biden match. Period.

[Edge-]

Americans with insurance are forced to pay a portion of $21,936 to $38,755 for Coronavirus treatment as that link explains.

If it's out of network*

You left that bit out. That doesn't make it all "fine" by any means, out of network charges should be fucking criminal, but you're not presenting accurate information here.

If you're in-network you keep your standard deductable, which can range from anywhere from a few thousand to upwards of 10-15K. Still quite a bit, but nowhere near what you imply.

So even if people get insured after losing that previous healthcare tied to their chronically insecure job, they are still paying some ridiculous premium per month

If you're unemployed, you can get subsidies on the front-end and tax credits on the back end. I had exchange insurance for a while when I was between jobs and my premium for the lowest package was maybe $100 a month for a single person. Maybe I'm lucky that I live in a state that took medicaid expansion or something?

and even if they aren't they are now on the hook for 20k+ in medical debt anyway.

Again, out of network.

Oh, and when they get a job again their premiums will go back up and they will still have 20k+ in medical debt that thanks to Joe Biden's tireless advocacy in the Bankruptcy bill, they are stuck with probably. Surviving Coronavirus is the new home mortgage / student loans I guess.

If they got a new job, they'd likely get health insurance through that job. And they wouldn't have that much medical debt unless they received out of network care, again.

Democrats running Biden is just conceding the election with extra steps. Democrats rejecting Universal Healthcare is a terrible idea as well.

Thinking that universal health care will happen in the next decade, much less a single term, is complete fantasy nonsense. You're living in a world of fiction.

I want M4A, don't get me wrong. But it'll be a long process to get there, with painful steps as the country is largely dragged kicking and screaming towards it. There's broad support for it in the abstract right now, but much like the provisions in the ACA that expanded what was covered, protected people from being dropped due to expensive procedures, protected people from being denied coverage for pre-existing conditions etc., that will be initially rejected and take time for people to come around to.

It sucks, but welcome to living in a democracy. It involves a lot of compromise.

I'd love to see Biden more on the M4A train, but even without him intentionally doing so if he expands/improves the ACA that will de-facto be walking us closer to M4A.

[Theodarzna]

The point of this is that many of Sanders' supports say they care deeply about progressive issues and that is why they'll sit the election out or vote for Trump.

Which is just so obviously fake -- because anyone who cares about progressive issues is going to vote for Biden. Period. Because Biden is the progressive choice in a Trump v Biden match. Period.

I doubt anyone's going to vote for Trump. But sitting it out makes tactical sense. Given that the threat of withholding a vote is the only real leverage those voters have over that party.

Biden; given his vows to veto all critical issues and lack of concern with any of the issues the Bernie coalition cares about hasn't really done anything the merit recieving those votes.

[cubby]

The point of this is that many of Sanders' supports say they care deeply about progressive issues and that is why they'll sit the election out or vote for Trump.

Which is just so obviously fake -- because anyone who cares about progressive issues is going to vote for Biden. Period. Because Biden is the progressive choice in a Trump v Biden match. Period.

This is how you can tell a Trump supporter in Sanders' wool, so to speak. Backing Sanders and then sliding to Trump because Biden is not progressive enough is Trump-level logic. Which fits perfectly with those pushing that ridiculous agenda.

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I doubt anyone's going to vote for Trump. But sitting it out makes tactical sense. Given that the threat of withholding a vote is the only real leverage those voters have over that party.

Biden; given his vows to veto all critical issues and lack of concern with any of the issues the Bernie coalition cares about hasn't really done anything the merit recieving those votes.

No it doesn't - not at all. And if you weren't such an obvious Trump supporter you'd know "sitting out" isn't what Sanders' fans would do. Defeating Trump is the only goal.

Your mistruths in the second paragraph just demonstrate your convictions.

Thank you @Lenosis for synthesizing that analysis.

[Theodarzna]

This is how you can tell a Trump supporter in Sanders' wool, so to speak. Backing Sanders and then sliding to Trump because Biden is not progressive enough is Trump-level logic. Which fits perfectly with those pushing that ridiculous agenda.

Progressive, Liberal, Socialist, these are all just words. On the critical issues Biden is just plain wrong and I can directly state Biden has pursued policies, fought for and got enacted things that made my life materially worse.

You keep trying to make this a "He isn't good enough", when what I am saying is that he plainly Isn't Good, at all. It's not that he is okay but not perfect, its that he is a terrible bad and awful person with a terrible, bad, and awful record.

You are correct to say earlier that this isn't the 2016 election, its more like all the mistakes of 2016 combined with 2004. If anything Trumps presidency has been a farcical mirror image of the 2000 election. With Trump a more exaggerated George W. Bush, and with "Blue Tribe Loyal Democrats" far more aggressively angry to have a a Republican administration over their heads. Especially after the long reign of a popular Democrat president whom many view with rose colored glasses despite his many wrong doings and betrayals of his own constituents and broken promises. Much like in 2004, the party wants some safe allegedly electable guy pleasing to the donors, and they are so desperate to win that they ignore every sign that this is a bad choice.

[Lenonis]

I doubt anyone's going to vote for Trump.

2016 is calling to say you are horribly wrong.

But sitting it out makes tactical sense. Given that the threat of withholding a vote is the only real leverage those voters have over that party.

The threat of sitting it out makes sense to force Biden to adopt a more progressive platform, sure. But we both know this isn't 4D chess being played. People are actually planning on sitting it out, and in doing so setting their own agenda back decades.

Biden; given his vows to veto all critical issues and lack of concern with any of the issues the Bernie coalition cares about hasn't really done anything the merit recieving those votes.

Two words - Judicial appointments.

That alone warrants voting for him over Trump.

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This is how you can tell a Trump supporter in Sanders' wool, so to speak.

Not all of them are Trump supporters trolling. Some are horseshoe-effect types that either want the world to burn because they have so much rage, or they are just simply too short sighted to see the damage that will be done.

I'm confident a large majority of Sanders' supporters will come around and vote for Biden. It's the ones who won't I'm concerned about.

[Machismo]

I doubt anyone's going to vote for Trump. But sitting it out makes tactical sense. Given that the threat of withholding a vote is the only real leverage those voters have over that party.

Biden; given his vows to veto all critical issues and lack of concern with any of the issues the Bernie coalition cares about hasn't really done anything the merit recieving those votes.

Great, make sure your husband doesn't vote for Trump.

Let us know how that turns out.

[Lenonis]

I can directly state Biden has pursued policies, fought for and got enacted things that made my life materially worse.

And Trump hasn't? Or are you really going to try to paint a picture where Biden's policies have harmed you more than Trump's? Which given what's going on right now would be quite the daring stance to take.

[Theodarzna]

2016 is calling to say you are horribly wrong.

The threat of sitting it out makes sense to force Biden to adopt a more progressive platform, sure. But we both know this isn't 4D chess being played. People are actually planning on sitting it out, and in doing so setting their own agenda back decades.

Two words - Judicial appointments.

That alone warrants voting for him over Trump.

Its set back either way, and as for judicial appointments, as per Edge- in his or her wisdom, believes most of the progressive policy platform is unconstitutional anyway and on what grounds would anyone believe the Senator from MBNA is going to appoint a secret uber radical judge that will allow such unthinkably radical programs like Universal Health Care? I mean if the party functionaries and preferred candidates oppose these platform positions and don't want them why on Earth would anyone believe their SCOTUS appointments would?

So essentially "Vote for a materially worse life, but hey, he MIGHT appoint a SCOTUS judge and in 20-40 years will give a favorable ruling on that Universal Healthcare none of us want or believe in."

[Machismo]

Its set back either way, and as for judicial appointments, as per Edge- in his or her wisdom, believes most of the progressive policy platform is unconstitutional anyway and on what grounds would anyone believe the Senator from MBNA is going to appoint a secret uber radical judge that will allow such unthinkably radical programs like Universal Health Care? I mean if the party functionaries and preferred candidates oppose these platform positions and don't want them why on Earth would anyone believe their SCOTUS appointments would?

So essentially "Vote for a materially worse life, but hey, he MIGHT appoint a SCOTUS judge and in 20-40 years will give a favorable ruling on that Universal Healthcare none of us want or believe in."

How is universal health care unconstitutional?

[Theodarzna]

And Trump hasn't? Or are you really going to try to paint a picture where Biden's policies have harmed you more than Trump's? Which given what's going on right now would be quite the daring stance to take.

Has Trump signed a Bankruptcy bill? So far he has more or less continued the last admins policies, and that admin continued Bush's policies.

Between the Iraq War that cost me a friend's life, which Biden was a paladin for. The Bankruptcy Bill which actually cost me money, and now opposing M4A, I am trying to see what exactly is the difference between Biden and Trump other than Twitter decorum and relative stage of Alzheimer Disease?

[Lenonis]

*snip*

If you really think Biden would appoint the same type of judges at Trump you are off your rocker. If I have to explain to you why even a moderate judge is better than a conservative judge for the progressive agenda you are off your rocker.

Stop being disingenuous. I'm tired of your games.

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So far he has more or less continued the last admins policies

Yeah cause Trump hasn't done anything to change Obama era policies. Nope, not a thing.

Do you really think you are convincing anyone with this act?

[Theodarzna]

If you really think Biden would appoint the same type of judges at Trump you are off your rocker. If I have to explain to you why even a moderate judge is better than a conservative judge for the progressive agenda you are off your rocker.

Stop being disingenuous. I'm tired of your games.

Given the Democrats don't believe in that agenda at all, why on Earth would they appoint a judge who wouldn't block it out of class solidarity and ideological belief? A Neo-Liberal versus a Conservative isn't really a difference when it comes to these material concerns.

[Lenonis]

Given the Democrats don't believe in that agenda at all, why on Earth would they appoint a judge who wouldn't block it out of class solidarity and ideological belief? A Neo-Liberal versus a Conservative isn't really a difference when it comes to these material concerns.

Welp I guess you chose "off your rocker". It really isn't my problem that you can't see how these judges would rule differently. Seems like we're done here.

[Edge-]

as per Edge- in his or her wisdom, believes most of the progressive policy platform is unconstitutional

Never said that. If you're gonna lie about what I've said, at least go big about it and say that I support eating babies or something.

What you wrote -

So basically minor reforms are all they could achieve with unlimited power over the federal government and no Universal Health Care, no bankers were punished for 2008?

I increasingly question whether or not you understand how the government even works.

Many of the major pieces of legislation you bring up would require 2/3rds votes, which they weren't going to get.
Some of it may not have been Constitutional, meaning there would need to be Amendments passed.
And much of it would have been wildly unpopular at the time, even amongst Democrats, and led to a faster change of parties and a faster regression.

My response. The receipts are all on the past few pages.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah cause Trump hasn't done anything to change Obama era policies. Nope, not a thing.

Do you really think you are convincing anyone with this act?

I don't expect to convince the hyper partisans and reply guys of anything since I know that is pointless. A vote has to be earned, your stance is that Biden is entitled and need not make a single credible promise, can even treat voting constituencies like shit and be openly toxic and hostile but still is entitled to those votes.

The Establishment Democrats act like the worst sort of manipulative gas lighting abusive boyfriend a woman could ever encounter.