Eternal Palace loot is too weak

[potis]

I really dont get why people keep repeating "High end raid level gear" with Benthic.

You do realize the cap is gonna be 455 right?

And if some Benthic passive is beter than (20)30 item levels they are gonna give it the nerf bat before Mythic week.

As always, the average "I dont actually play the game but i believe LFR is relevant content" is gonna be 20-30 item levels behind.

Same way they were crying they are stuck at 385-390, 2 months after everyone was rolling in 410+ and then magically pushed to 400 item level (Because the scaling of Emissaries changed).

They are gonna be crying they are stuck at 415-420 until the Benthic finally pushes them to 425 while everyone is gonna be averagely 445-450 and by the time they farm all the Benthic we will have people above 450.

There is no difference in the last 7 years, why will it be any different now.

Its the same catch up mechanic every time, and every time the same whining happens, its like you people never learn!

[Tojara]

It costs 220 pearls to upgrade something fully to 425. You have to get lucky to get the exact piece, and a socket as well. Getting the exact piece with a socket isn't really that difficult if you have several alts feeding your main pieces though.

I don't really see the issue. Most people if they stockpile absolutely everything for heroic release are going to be able to upgrade 2 items fully, and that takes away from unlocking the forge or buying R2/R3 essences from the vendor as well.

The only 'compromise' I can see them making is simply disabling the bonus effect while in the raid. Preventing sockets from appearing on further benthic gear, removing the sockets or changing iLvL of gear are options that simply aren't going to happen at all. Even if they removed the bonus effects, the gear would still be incredibly strong until you managed to get a high enough iLvL piece to outweigh the socket, or you just lucked into a piece of gear with a socket on it.

Personally don't mind the approach of getting very good gear outside of raid. Do I think the bonus effect plus the socket is a little much? Yeah, but I wouldn't be surprised if they kept it exactly like this. Reminds me of farming badges in TBC for gear (for better or worse).

[Insaniam]

Well, he was the GM of a raiding guild and a lawyer, so I give him zero benefit of doubt when it comes to screw up non-raiders.

Well, considering he's done a fantastic job of screwing raiders and all but handing everything to you people every time you cry foul of anything...

Posts like that in threads like these reinforce my lack of faith in the WoW community.

[Kralljin]

You do realize the cap is gonna be 455 right?

Because Titanforging is such as well received mechanic?

Its the same catch up mechanic every time, and every time the same whining happens, its like you people never learn!

No, the "catch up" of BC or even Wotlk isn't even close to what we're seeing now.

In Wotlk, the ICC 5man Dungeons were still like 15 Ilvl below even the easiest difficulty of ICC.

And if you want to take Badges of Frost into account, if you completely ignore raiding, you're looking at only two badges per day, which meant that even a single piece required something like 20 days of doing daily hc.

[Niroshi]

Because Titanforging is such as well received mechanic?



No, the "catch up" of BC or even Wotlk isn't even close to what we're seeing now.

In Wotlk, the ICC 5man Dungeons were still like 15 Ilvl below even the easiest difficulty of ICC.

And if you want to take Badges of Frost into account, if you completely ignore raiding, you're looking at only two badges per day, which meant that even a single piece required something like 20 days of doing daily hc.

To add to this, go back even just what, a year and a half and we'd have never seen this kind of system either. RNG Argus gear was below Antorus, even LFR was an upgrade. BFA's whole system is borked.

[MrExcelion]

This thread what was I was warning about last week. Some benthic gear socketed will be better than mythic (ie: 3% crit damage boots)

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It's pointless because in the next patch its all totally useless again. I understand hard gear resets on expansions. I understand gear needing to progress upon new releases. I don't understand absolutely everything needing to be forgotten total trash between patches with a matter of weeks.

[Malefic]

People commenting about "it's okay players can get gear outside of the raids" don't seem to understand certain Benthic gear *cough* crit damage boots *cough* is best in slot for many classes for THE ENTIRE RAID. Including Mythic gear, with sockets.

The complaint isn't that "someone can get full 425 Benthic gear" it's that certain pieces of Benthic gear, with a socket, at 425 ilvl, are better than anything you can get in the raid, and it's not that time consuming to be able to have 2-3 pieces of 425 Benthic socketed gear before Mythic week.

[Kreo]

I would guess Blizzard so desperate at this point to look good in quarterly reports, they have to artificially attract mayfly players with "sugar".
Here, take it, just play for a few weeks, please!
And after a grind those players with full benthic gear and heroic raider ilvl will try and step up to something else, only to realize what nothing is there for them. Only way to progress further would be high TF heroic gear or mythic raiding. Which won't happen, since completing WQ and farming rares, surprisingly, does not boost you WoW skill level.
Well, at least now those people have proper ilvl for a pet battles.
As for normal/heroic raiders, they will kill Azshara few times, realize they is no loot gains and ether move into mythic scene (very few) and then be done until 8.2.5

[FelPlague]

400 LFR
415 N
430 H
445 M

Is far too low given the current state of the game:
- Players can get to almost 425 ilvl from world content alone
- This gear's value exceeds heroic gear with a socket

Problems:
- The raid will be obsolete for almost the entire playerbase except the few mythic raiders before it is even released due to the current rewards on offer (Benthic)
- The lack of upgrades in Eternal Palace due to the benthic rewards will make it impossible to balance the raid. Do you balance heroic around questing gear (425)? If so, then there won't be any upgrades in the raid. Do you balance it like normal (410, 15 ilvls below what the raid drops)? If so, the raid will be steamrolled with questing gear.

Solutions:
- Increase Eternal Palace ilvl rewards to 410/425/440/455
- Increase LFR loot chance by 25%
- Balance the raid accordingly (increase damage/hp of mobs by ~10%)

This will encourage the consumption of the newest content rather than remaining in previous content.

Also increase the ilvl of mechagon loot by 10 and hp/damage of mobs by 10%.

i have been playing CONSTANTLY in warmode gathering all mana pearls i can, i got flying day 5.
i have maxed 2 items.
now imagine how long it would take to max 9
2 weeks 2 items, so 9 weeks.
and you cant get benthicc rings, trinkets, or weapons, so thats 5-6 sots not maxed.

also dont you praise vanilla? this was the exact same problem with vanilla
"why would i want molten core gear if i can just have crafted/dungeon shadow damage loot that is much better?"

[burek]

People commenting about "it's okay players can get gear outside of the raids" don't seem to understand certain Benthic gear *cough* crit damage boots *cough* is best in slot for many classes for THE ENTIRE RAID. Including Mythic gear, with sockets.

So what if it is? It's not the only thing. You didn't get the neck from the raid either. Best azerite armor and trinkets can come from M+. There is also only 1 essence dropping in the raid, the other 2 have to be obtained some place else. You also have to farm AP outside of the raid.

Raid logging must be tough these days, eh? Blame all the hate WoD got for that.

[Soluna]

400 LFR
415 N
430 H
445 M

Is far too low given the current state of the game:
- Players can get to almost 425 ilvl from world content alone
- This gear's value exceeds heroic gear with a socket

Problems:
- The raid will be obsolete for almost the entire playerbase except the few mythic raiders before it is even released due to the current rewards on offer (Benthic)
- The lack of upgrades in Eternal Palace due to the benthic rewards will make it impossible to balance the raid. Do you balance heroic around questing gear (425)? If so, then there won't be any upgrades in the raid. Do you balance it like normal (410, 15 ilvls below what the raid drops)? If so, the raid will be steamrolled with questing gear.

Solutions:
- Increase Eternal Palace ilvl rewards to 410/425/440/455
- Increase LFR loot chance by 25%
- Balance the raid accordingly (increase damage/hp of mobs by ~10%)

This will encourage the consumption of the newest content rather than remaining in previous content.

Also increase the ilvl of mechagon loot by 10 and hp/damage of mobs by 10%.

Have you realised that the ilvl has been increasing steadily by 30 ilvls for years now, or do you think this is just something new? And the maximum TF cap is 455, so 30 ilvls worth of upgrades is certainly worth it.

[CrawlFromThePit]

400 LFR
415 N
430 H
445 M

Is far too low given the current state of the game:
- Players can get to almost 425 ilvl from world content alone
- This gear's value exceeds heroic gear with a socket

Problems:
- The raid will be obsolete for almost the entire playerbase except the few mythic raiders before it is even released due to the current rewards on offer (Benthic)
- The lack of upgrades in Eternal Palace due to the benthic rewards will make it impossible to balance the raid. Do you balance heroic around questing gear (425)? If so, then there won't be any upgrades in the raid. Do you balance it like normal (410, 15 ilvls below what the raid drops)? If so, the raid will be steamrolled with questing gear.

Solutions:
- Increase Eternal Palace ilvl rewards to 410/425/440/455
- Increase LFR loot chance by 25%
- Balance the raid accordingly (increase damage/hp of mobs by ~10%)

This will encourage the consumption of the newest content rather than remaining in previous content.

Also increase the ilvl of mechagon loot by 10 and hp/damage of mobs by 10%.

Yes and no. It's too low only because the game offers no challenge. If the game was properly balanced to permanently challenge players, everyone would look forward to getting any kind of upgrade possible. But when you just faceroll your way through all the "necessary" content like weekly +10, why bother with getting the best gear?

The ilvl would be fine if the rest of the game was not made for blind people with no arms who play on a laptop touchpad with their nose.

[Casperite]

I really dont get why people keep repeating "High end raid level gear" with Benthic.

You do realize the cap is gonna be 455 right?

And if some Benthic passive is beter than (20)30 item levels they are gonna give it the nerf bat before Mythic week.

As always, the average "I dont actually play the game but i believe LFR is relevant content" is gonna be 20-30 item levels behind.

Same way they were crying they are stuck at 385-390, 2 months after everyone was rolling in 410+ and then magically pushed to 400 item level (Because the scaling of Emissaries changed).

They are gonna be crying they are stuck at 415-420 until the Benthic finally pushes them to 425 while everyone is gonna be averagely 445-450 and by the time they farm all the Benthic we will have people above 450.

There is no difference in the last 7 years, why will it be any different now.

Its the same catch up mechanic every time, and every time the same whining happens, its like you people never learn!

You are so out of touch with reality. Not "everyone" will be mythic raid level geared. Most not even heroic level. That high level player you reference as "everyone" is actually a small minority of players.

And the fact you think people that don't raid "don't play the game" is laughable and demonstrates how out of touch you are.

[cuafpr]

eh i think you should be able to get normal raid level outside of instanced content, ideally an improved crafting system would allow BoP gear to crafted without ever setting a foot in an instances, and yes upgrade it to mythic raid ilvl. Game needs to appeal to more than raiders, and thus allow those people to feel like they are advancing. Less we not forget TBC had some amazing raid level crafted gear, though i think some of the mats came from raids/5mans.

[voxnor]

Raiding is not about getting a higher item level than the rest of the community. If you think it should be, you're doing it wrong.

Raiding is high level content for challenge, some gear, and unique appearances / mounts / toys.

Let me posit it this way to you: Why do you care that I have the same item level gear when not raiding? Is it affecting your game-play somehow?

[anon5123]

Seriously, this is a step in the right direction. Raids should not be the only way to get good loot.

Making raids, the main content of the game, irrelevant, is a "step in the right direction" ?

My god, this playerbase is beyond saving.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me posit it this way to you: Why do you care that I have the same item level gear when not raiding? Is it affecting your game-play somehow?

Because for the longest time, you had to actually put in effort to complete difficult raids, in order to get good gear.

Now any old keyboard-turning Timmy can get mythic-level gear randomly from easy world content.

That's why I care.

[voxnor]

Making raids, the main content of the game, irrelevant, is a "step in the right direction" ?

My god, this playerbase is beyond saving.

- - - Updated - - -



Because for the longest time, you had to actually put in effort to complete difficult raids, in order to get good gear.

Now any old keyboard-turning Timmy can get mythic-level gear randomly from easy world content.

That's why I care.

How does my gear level affect your game play though? Raiding is not about being the best geared. It should be about the accomplishment, the team work, access to mogs, mounts , pets. And at THE HIGHEST difficulties yes, gear.

If all you raid for is gear, quit imo.

[Softbottom]

There really was no reason for benthic gear to be higher than normal raid gear.. It should have capped at 415.

[voxnor]

People commenting about "it's okay players can get gear outside of the raids" don't seem to understand certain Benthic gear *cough* crit damage boots *cough* is best in slot for many classes for THE ENTIRE RAID. Including Mythic gear, with sockets.

The complaint isn't that "someone can get full 425 Benthic gear" it's that certain pieces of Benthic gear, with a socket, at 425 ilvl, are better than anything you can get in the raid, and it's not that time consuming to be able to have 2-3 pieces of 425 Benthic socketed gear before Mythic week.

And having 2-3 pieces of BiS from outside the raid is a bad idea why? Where is it written that all the best items for completing a raid have to be from the raid? Did Molten Core drop all of your fire resist gear for you?