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  1. #1

    Beguiling - First Impressions, Tips and Tricks

    Hello!

    Please post your experiences in S3 dungeons here. Initially I was very apprehensive about Reaping but as most, I grew to like it. I'm very curious about this new affix and how it changes M+ meta and game play. See you in M+!

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    It's actually staggering how much less fun it is than Reaping.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ramayana1423 View Post
    It's actually staggering how much less fun it is than Reaping.
    That's not good

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ramayana1423 View Post
    It's actually staggering how much less fun it is than Reaping.
    Because reaping was fun... right.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caus View Post
    Because reaping was fun... right.
    I found reaping very enjoyable a mechanic. You have to keep an eye on your percentage, it slightly changes the pace of the dungeon, and you could work out fun ways to skip the 100% one. It wasnt mindboggling or breathtaking, but it was far better than Ghuun infestations.
    If World of Warcraft has taught me anything, it's that teaching a crowd something is far harder than teaching individuals.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    I found reaping very enjoyable a mechanic. You have to keep an eye on your percentage, it slightly changes the pace of the dungeon, and you could work out fun ways to skip the 100% one. It wasnt mindboggling or breathtaking, but it was far better than Ghuun infestations.
    Fun ways? There is only one way... Kill boss before getting 100% then get the last percentage.

    Which was done with either rogue or invis pot.

  7. #7
    I think its great. Reaping was a fun AOE zerg, but pretty mindless.... and this is something different that makes you reconsider how you approach the dungeon including pulls, priority's and routes etc. Neat.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ramayana1423 View Post
    It's actually staggering how much less fun it is than Reaping.
    The problem is that reaping was only fun for classes with high AOE burst. I mainly play a Rogue so personally I’m good with that for obvious reasons, but I feel for classes that can’t AOE like a Rogue or DH. And reaping was out for almost 6 months. That’s a long time with one specific affix which heavily caters to certain classes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    I think its great. Reaping was a fun AOE zerg, but pretty mindless.... and this is something different that makes you reconsider how you approach the dungeon including pulls, priority's and routes etc. Neat.

    I agree. However, it seems like most people actually prefer the more mindless design. When I hear people describe the ideal dungeon design they always talk about big pulls. I would argue that on paper infected was a more interesting affix than reaping, but still 99 % of players still prefer reaping. And I kind of also agree because big pulls are fun. The only way I can enjoy islands just a little bit is if the tank pulls the whole island.

  9. #9
    Mindless AoE is fun if you are against a timer.

    Careful pulls with CC feels more like defusing a bomb, full of stress and absolutely no fun IF you are against a timer.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Mindless AoE is fun if you are against a timer.

    Careful pulls with CC feels more like defusing a bomb, full of stress and absolutely no fun IF you are against a timer.
    Exactly what I wanted to say.

    It's perfect when the dungeon is designed to be strategic and without a timer, simply a long hard dungeon to clear, like they used to be.
    Nowadays with people wanting to clear within timer mainly, it only serves as a nuisance and a delay to the end goal.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    ... it only serves as a nuisance and a delay to the end goal.
    Which is exactly why affixes exist in the first place?

  12. #12
    To give you an idea, I ran tonight in a group of mostly guild members that struggled to complete a +10 Motherlode and ended up about 25 minutes over time on it because of the Beguiling mobs (mostly the Void ones, which sometimes play by the rules and sometimes don't.). I know the scaling was changed today with Season 3's release, but a +10 is roughly the equivalent of a +12 from before the patch and everyone is now using their new Essences for increased damage/healing. The average score across the 5 players in M+ dungeons for the previous season was about 1.3k with some being a bit lower (1k) and some being higher (1.7k range).

    I was not really impressed by it; the Void mobs could be LoS'd on the cast which is great because it brings some strategy in...except that their placement in this dungeon made it nearly impossible to LoS them. Even in places that you thought would work such as around corners or walls, you still got hit by it, and then in another place you'd be able to LoS it perfectly fine which made it very frustrating to deal with. There was one particular spot where we were around a wall to the point that we couldn't target the mob, only to find that it was still casting on us, while in another spot just moments before you could LoS it perfectly.

    The CC immunity mobs weren't all that difficult to deal with because you just burn it down, but I imagine it'll be more frustrating during Teeming weeks for sure. The damage reflect mob wasn't really an issue at all; it gets knocked back when you hit it and eventually just despawns, and there was one positioned in Motherlode before the second boss that wasn't even in range of any other mobs. These two weren't particularly bad but the Void one was just incredibly annoying to deal with. I'm sure if it were different affixes it might not be so bad because you could probably tank a cast or even two with a cooldown, but on Grievous week it was a nightmare. Maybe after a couple weeks of gear and some increased DPS it won't be an issue any more as well, but for the first couple weeks it may be miserable depending on affixes.

    Overall it was just kinda meh. It definitely made us scoot around certain packs you'd normally clear but we still managed to clear enough to go for the soulstone death run at the end of the dungeon after the third boss, so overall it won't affect your strategy that much.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord dacoolist's Avatar
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    It’s a slow down for sure - but over time I’m guessing we will all figure out ways to avoid some of those packs

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Mindless AoE is fun if you are against a timer.

    Careful pulls with CC feels more like defusing a bomb, full of stress and absolutely no fun IF you are against a timer.
    Couldn't have said it myself. Expect Season 3 participation to plummet.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Mindless AoE is fun if you are against a timer.

    Careful pulls with CC feels more like defusing a bomb, full of stress and absolutely no fun IF you are against a timer.
    Well, you actually made it sound really fun. Defusing a bomb against a timer sounds pretty awesome.

  16. #16
    I will say that this makes fewer specs garbage tier than reaping did. That said, it's meh.

  17. #17
    New affix is bullshit. Please remove.

  18. #18
    My tips:

    1) This combo of affixes is garbage so don't try too hard this week. The mob scaling is also insane. A +12 felt around a 17+ in damage output/health.
    2) The void can be burned down before the 2nd explosion if your dps is doing around 20k dps. The void also doesn't move, so you can simply pull mobs back and los it the whole time while you don't bother with it (such as the staircase leading to the gold woman in AD).
    3) The pushback one is easy, just tell your range to keep casting at it. Drive home the point that he doesn't switch from the target until it's channeling.
    4) The anti-cc one seems to go by quick. Once again, make sure the DPS is actually trying to kill it.
    5) Lusting voidpack is your friends this week most likely.

    I think this affix's reception would be much different if bolstering/griveous isn't basically the most cancerous combo you could do for the first week.

    but a +10 is roughly the equivalent of a +12 from
    I doubt it. They actually increased the base level by 30% as well as increasing the incremental rate. I did an AD 12 with a group at about 418 average ilvl. The gold lady boss's channel was taking people to about half health. I had to completely spam heals/cooldowns on the tank during Rezan's bleed. This is on non-tyrannical.

  19. #19
    Blizzard needs to be careful on how they design some of these affixes. There is a very fine line where fun crosses into tedious/unfun and I don't even want to take part any longer. Beguiling is sitting on that line for me.
    Softbottom - Stormscale

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebottom View Post
    Blizzard needs to be careful on how they design some of these affixes. There is a very fine line where fun crosses into tedious/unfun and I don't even want to take part any longer. Beguiling is sitting on that line for me.
    The problem is a lot of players only want to sit on the side of the line that says 'anything in my way is not ok' or 'only a mindless aoe zerg (like reaping) is acceptable' - and thats not good for the game either.

    Sometimes players need to be saved from themselves, else theyd only insist on mindless mechanics which require little to no finesse or thought.

    The only real suggestion id give for Beguiling is the mobs give you a small bonus for killing them, even if its more psychological in how it affects the run. EG killing one of the emissaries gives +5% dam for 60 seconds, another reduces enemy detection range for 15 seconds (maybe letting you skip a pack you otherwise wouldnt), another gives +25% runspeed for 30 seconds. Something small that doesnt add up to much in the end, but helps encourage ppl to think killing the mobs wasnt just a chore thats interfering with their efficient ways to end the dungeon but gave some tangible assistance.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2019-07-11 at 03:02 AM.

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