Why does gear still affect competitive pvp?

[therealstegblob]

There's no such thing as a "fake argument."

>Makes a fake argument

>Gets called out for doing it

>Stammers and tries to pretentiously explain how there's no such thing as the thing you just did

Lol.

It wasn't an argument either. It was a comment.

Ah, so you're telling me that your "Comment" that was in direct opposition to the OP's point (his argument) is not an argument against the OP and his point, it was just a neutral comment. Yeah okay.

Imagine trying to be pretentious and failing so badly at it.

Players were required to experience all parts of the game (it's an MMORPG) in order to acquire the best items... especially for PvP... mixing and matching. Others have made this comment as well.

It's a PvE game with a PvP minigame on the side, how in the world is it invalid to say 'PvP shouldn't be gear-based or involve getting the best gear for PvE'?

Like I said, I think you're the one who needs to look for a new game. Games where players can voice their opinions and effect gameplay don't seem to be fit for someone like you.

[RelaZ]

I think having gear should matter, as it displays how dedicated you are to your specific character and spec. But I completely disagree with broken PvE trinkets being overly OP in the arenas or any PvP environmet for that matter. Gear should matter, but it should be PvP specific and purchased with PvP currency, just as it was back in the day. I don't know why they took this away from us. The current system is ridiculous.

This. So much this.

In PvP all that matters is that eventually, in a reasonable time frame, all players get access to all the best gear by playing only PvP. Better players can get it a bit faster, but they shouldn't have exclusive access to it. This is why the late MoP and the WoD systems were so great and successful.

[dragnipur]

Because it's mmorpg and gear matters

This was true before but not all MMOs follow this mentality any more.More and more MMOs include scaling.

[Kagthul]

Simple reason, same answer it has always been:

The closer we’ve come to this “gear-less, only skill matters” Nirvana that the loud minority claim is the perfect PvP...

PvP participation absolutely fucking craters.

Craters. Like a fucking meteor dropping out of the sky.

Rated PvP took a NINTEY PERCENT DIVE in Legion.

Because gear wasnt perceived as useful (it still was, more than prior expansions, hillariously, but thats an entirely different topic) and the reward structure was ass.

Ninety percent dropoff.

This is one of those “you think you want it but you really dont” issues.

There’s a loud minority of people who keep trumpetting the “ZOMG SKILLZ R ALL DAT SHUD MATTAR” - but theyre a tiny minority of people. Proof is in the pudding. When “Gear didn’t matter”, participation in PvP dropped like a fucking meteor falling into the atmosphere.

That simple.

[nRes]

PvP is nothing about getting stronger and its pretty much WoWs version of a sport, PvP should only be about skill as nothing else should be a factor apart from blizzs terrible ability to balance classes.

Noone would care about gear if everyone was on equal footing in PvP, why do you need to get stronger gear just to win, if you cant do it by skill alone then PvP may be the wrong type of gameplay for that player, gear should never be the focus of your gameplay but these days its handed out like candy anyway so anyone can get the best gear.

I'm not playing this game to prove I'm a better player than you. I'm playing it for fun and my personal skill is honestly irrelevant. Overgearing and destroying your opponents is fun and is not unfair because anyone can do it if they so desire. Not just that but overgearing and overpowering your opponents has been a staple in every successful pvp mmo out there.

[Druitz]

Simple reason, same answer it has always been:

The closer we’ve come to this “gear-less, only skill matters” Nirvana that the loud minority claim is the perfect PvP...

PvP participation absolutely fucking craters.

Craters. Like a fucking meteor dropping out of the sky.

Rated PvP took a NINTEY PERCENT DIVE in Legion.

Because gear wasnt perceived as useful (it still was, more than prior expansions, hillariously, but thats an entirely different topic) and the reward structure was ass.

Ninety percent dropoff.

This is one of those “you think you want it but you really dont” issues.

There’s a loud minority of people who keep trumpetting the “ZOMG SKILLZ R ALL DAT SHUD MATTAR” - but theyre a tiny minority of people. Proof is in the pudding. When “Gear didn’t matter”, participation in PvP dropped like a fucking meteor falling into the atmosphere.

That simple.

Well if you compare Legion with templates to BFA pve clown fiesta i don't know even single player who think current pvp with "gear matters" is better than legion templates.



Actually there are much less ppl playing now than in legion... When i was trying to cap at around 2.3k-2.4k cr it was ez to find players even for 3v3. Well i could choose who i will invite.

And now? I war around same CR but there is NOBODY to play with. All my friends left once they realized blizz removed templates to they are forced to play pve. All this ppl on lfg are gone. I was gearing my healer alt via 2s only and at 2.2k cr i had to wait like 15 minutes to find decent mate (i do not count 1500 russian queing).

BFA pvp is by far the worst pvp it's even been. Even wod had better pve. What we have now is complete joke so i am not suprised that people are leaving rated pvp.

[kenn9530]

I'm not playing this game to prove I'm a better player than you. I'm playing it for fun and my personal skill is honestly irrelevant. Overgearing and destroying your opponents is fun and is not unfair because anyone can do it if they so desire. Not just that but overgearing and overpowering your opponents has been a staple in every successful pvp mmo out there.

how can it be considered successful pvp if you have gear to the point the other has no chance, what fun is that when it provides no challenge at all and has nothing to do with skill, only people to find this fun would be players who dont have the required skill to do actual PvP.

Pretty much every good PvP orientated game is pretty much equal in terms of equipment so the only advantages you get is skill or what class your using.

The main issue here is in WoW the players have a give it to me attitude, they want everything and all the advantages to make it like they are better players than they actually are, when actual PvP should be 100% equal, you should be able to get powerful rewards from PvP but it should still not give you any advantages in competitive PvP, if it involves rating gear should provide no advantage at all.

[Rafoel]

Pretty much every good PvP orientated game is pretty much equal in terms of equipment so the only advantages you get is skill or what class your using.

MOBAs, the most popular PvP games, are all about equipment and items (except the failed HotS). To attract the average player, who is of average skill, you need to make outside factors feel like skill. With skill alone this player will never feel powerful or achieve success, so he will quit. He still needs to feel like he earned his success though, not that it was handed to him.

Equality is often boring. Saying gear shouldn't matter in Battlegrounds is like saying height shouldn't matter in Basketball. Height is even more of a deal than gear, as you can get gear, but you can't gain height. I haven't seen people wanting to divide NBA in height brackets though.

[kenn9530]

MOBAs, the most popular PvP games, are all about equipment and items (except the failed HotS). To attract the average player, who is of average skill, you need to make outside factors feel like skill. With skill alone this player will never feel powerful or achieve success, so he will quit. He still needs to feel like he earned his success though, not that it was handed to him.

Equality is often boring. Saying gear shouldn't matter in Battlegrounds is like saying height shouldn't matter in Basketball. Height is even more of a deal than gear, as you can get gear, but you can't gain height. I haven't seen people wanting to divide NBA in height brackets though.

Gear should not be the main focus on playing a game, WoW is boring enough as it is anyway, what fun is it fighting people when they have little chance of winning, in competitive PvP it should always be equal and then it comes down to class/skill. Why do you think on arena passes they have vendors where you can just buy whatever gear/items you want, to make it equal so it comes down to the player.

[Kagthul]

Well if you compare Legion with templates to BFA pve clown fiesta i don't know even single player who think current pvp with "gear matters" is better than legion templates.

Then they cant do math, and couldn't do math in Legion.

Prior to Legion, the difference between Honor Gear (easily acquired without even PvPing) and COnquest gear was about 8-9%.

In Legion, it was quite possible for a "brand new to PvP" player to be 14-18% behind in stats because of how the templates worked.

The entire "Templates" thing was an outright lie. We proved it with math a number of times right here in this very forum.

Currently, just doing WQs and a First-Win every day, you can get within about 9% of the best gear in the game.

So... its better than templates. Straight up.

Actually there are much less ppl playing now than in legion... When i was trying to cap at around 2.3k-2.4k cr it was ez to find players even for 3v3. Well i could choose who i will invite.

And now? I war around same CR but there is NOBODY to play with. All my friends left once they realized blizz removed templates to they are forced to play pve. All this ppl on lfg are gone. I was gearing my healer alt via 2s only and at 2.2k cr i had to wait like 15 minutes to find decent mate (i do not count 1500 russian queing).

BFA pvp is by far the worst pvp it's even been. Even wod had better pve. What we have now is complete joke so i am not suprised that people are leaving rated pvp.

I wouldn't say its the worst its ever been. Its not good, but its better than the shit-show that was Legion. WoD's PvP actually wasn't awful, just strictly mediocre, and it was *by far* the best gearing system theyve ever had. (Complete casuals and die-hards could all get the best PvP gear which WAS NOT great in PvE (until the "woops, extra season but no new raid tier at the end), PvE gear was not the best for PvP, etc.

[Freighter]

But this is the best iteration of PvP we ever had. Its a perfect balance of both systems.
What exactly do you want to change?
For gear to matter even more?

PvP has never been this fun

As it stands right now, a person with better gear has the advantage...but is not as much as "back then" in the old days.

Its a perfect balance IMO

The most shit iteration of pvp you mean. MoP pvp > WoD, Legion and BFA pvp by miles. I was finding it less and less fun in WoD, then came Legion and I barely did any at all and BFA killed it off entirely for me. The classes are unbalanced as hell.

[Ticj]

Gear should matter in competitive PvP. PvP gear that is. For the love of god just bring back PvP vendors and base balancing around that gear. PvP in WoW died the second they removed vendors.

[nRes]

Gear should not be the main focus on playing a game, WoW is boring enough as it is anyway, what fun is it fighting people when they have little chance of winning, in competitive PvP it should always be equal and then it comes down to class/skill. Why do you think on arena passes they have vendors where you can just buy whatever gear/items you want, to make it equal so it comes down to the player.

You are almost never fighting just scrubs. BGs always used to have top geared people on both sides. Top geared people were competing with other top geared people and less geared people were helping while they farmed their own gear. That's how it works.

Gear should matter in competitive PvP. PvP gear that is. For the love of god just bring back PvP vendors and base balancing around that gear. PvP in WoW died the second they removed vendors.

I don't understand why they removed resilience. I think it worked great. It separated PVP from PVE items nicely. Top PVE items were decent, but could never compete with someone with a lot of resilience.

[siskokid21]

If people want a power fantasy just leave it in battlegrounds; does anyone else think its the dumbest f4cking idea in existence having item level affect competitive PvP?

i pvp'd a fair amount from tbc -> wod, more than i pve'd even in fact. The moment they mentioned templates in legion however, i quit the pvp scene and went full pve. Character progression is important, and not even being able to pick and choose what stats you can utilize is just dumb to me. No one wants all choice to be removed from the game. No one wants to play a game where there's no rewards. It felt super rewarding in older expansions when you got some resilience and were able to survive longer against other players. It also felt great having strong pve trinkets/offspec gear in pvp content. The older systems added more flavor and gave players more choice, which is why i feel like more people actually engaged in pvp back then, and why pvp has felt more fun since BFA launched compared to legion.

[Artelia]

Pvp is not fun because templates without gear.

Not ONLY because you can't see any progress but also because healers are stupidly op since ever. With enough heals you can't kill shit and i saw bg with four kills in 30 minutes. Legion was worst change in pvp in history.

[kenn9530]

Pvp is not fun because templates without gear.

Not ONLY because you can't see any progress but also because healers are stupidly op since ever. With enough heals you can't kill shit and i saw bg with four kills in 30 minutes. Legion was worst change in pvp in history.

why does your character need stats to increase in PvP, its supposed to be about skill, knowing when to lock down that player and when to go in for the kill, there is next to no challenge left in WoW as it is, having a gear advantage is just stupid in competitive PvP because it just causes even more imbalanced in the game,

people who think its all about the gear are playing for the wrong reasons as once you have the gear what will you do then when everyone is in the same gear and you stop gettign stronger.

[Artelia]

why does your character need stats to increase in PvP, its supposed to be about skill, knowing when to lock down that player and when to go in for the kill, there is next to no challenge left in WoW as it is, having a gear advantage is just stupid in competitive PvP because it just causes even more imbalanced in the game,

people who think its all about the gear are playing for the wrong reasons as once you have the gear what will you do then when everyone is in the same gear and you stop gettign stronger.

If you want competetive and fair pvp you playing wrong game. If we forget about invicible healers that are not supposed die in 1v1 and sometimes even in 1v2 you need to remember that not every class have same conditions. Some classes are just more pvp based than others.

This "i don't want gear in pvp" is for people who using many alts but they don't want gear them. And i suppose you are one from them. Because if not, all you wanted is one week for honor gear. That's all. Arena gear can wait. It's not so much big change anyway. It never was.

But it was progress. Progress you can feel and reason for pvp even try. Because ...let's agree that this pvp is not fun with state of abilites we got after two expansion full of pruning.

[kenn9530]

If you want competetive and fair pvp you playing wrong game. If we forget about invicible healers that are not supposed die in 1v1 and sometimes even in 1v2 you need to remember that not every class have same conditions. Some classes are just more pvp based than others.

This "i don't want gear in pvp" is for people who using many alts but they don't want gear them. And i suppose you are one from them. Because if not, all you wanted is one week for honor gear. That's all. Arena gear can wait. It's not so much big change anyway. It never was.

But it was progress. Progress you can feel and reason for pvp even try. Because ...let's agree that this pvp is not fun with state of abilites we got after two expansion full of pruning.

problem with WoW is pvp has never been balanced, what WoW actually needs is balanced PvP where every class can be used in a comp and not having players with 20-40 ilvls higher giving lesser geared players no chance at all, rated activities are basically a sport in WoW and should be balanced as much as possible to be fair game.

Current mentality of WoW players is they want to be more powerful than anyone else so they have an advantage and complain when they dont feel powerful, all you need for progress in rated PvP is your rating going up. PvP is more balanced than it has ever been even though blizz cant balance anything correctly and now players complain because they dont feel stronger and cant kill others as easy.

[docterfreeze]

why does your character need stats to increase in PvP, its supposed to be about skill, knowing when to lock down that player and when to go in for the kill, there is next to no challenge left in WoW as it is, having a gear advantage is just stupid in competitive PvP because it just causes even more imbalanced in the game,

If you can take the time to get good at PvP, you can take the time to get geared. At least that's how it worked when there were vendors.

[Artelia]

problem with WoW is pvp has never been balanced, what WoW actually needs is balanced PvP where every class can be used in a comp and not having players with 20-40 ilvls higher giving lesser geared players no chance at all, rated activities are basically a sport in WoW and should be balanced as much as possible to be fair game.

Current mentality of WoW players is they want to be more powerful than anyone else so they have an advantage and complain when they dont feel powerful, all you need for progress in rated PvP is your rating going up. PvP is more balanced than it has ever been even though blizz cant balance anything correctly and now players complain because they dont feel stronger and cant kill others as easy.

If you were really geared and good in pvp you know that gear was not such big deal when do you fight against something different than green hero who actually done no effort to be stronger. It's same like call Mythic+ sport. Let's remove gear from it. Because you know...it's more fair for long term e-sport races. And while they race in raid too. Let's remove gear for mythic raid.

Bro, we do not want be stronger because we needs one-hit some green heroes. We want pvp gear because we want progress and power from playing this game. Mmo is exactly about it. Even pvp. Nobody care about pvp as general since there is no reward from it. I know right now almost ten people who still playing wow and stoped play pvp because it.