9.0 General Discussion

[Wangming]

In this case, the magic abilities could include a spec around raising dead things using tech.

so based on using goblin jumper cables?

[Teriz]

If you want a ghostbusters-esque, wacky comedy Shadowlands expansion no one can take seriously because gnomes lead the way against the threat with their miraculous anti-ectoplasmic net-a-trons and spirit-tuned spectre-spotters, yes.

You mean like Mists of Pandaria which had wacky Monks slamming kegs of beer onto the heads of Old God manifestations, yet is widely considered one of the best expansions WoW has ever had?

Sounds good to me.

[Hitei]

You mean like Mists of Pandaria which had wacky Monks slamming kegs of beer onto the heads of Old God manifestations, yet is widely considered one of the best expansions WoW has ever had?

Sounds good to me.

Except that what's wildly considered "the best expansion" in Mists is large class toolkits, a good .2 zone/raid, timeless isle, and nice looking zones. Not the thematics, which were heavily, heavily criticized for years afterwards, and by some to this very day, precisely for being wacky and non-serious. Which is telling since gnomes and goblins make even Pandaren like Chen look somber.

[Teriz]

Except that what's wildly considered "the best expansion" in Mists is large class toolkits, a good .2 zone/raid, timeless isle, and nice looking zones. Not the thematics, which were heavily, heavily criticized for years afterwards, and by some to this very day, precisely for being wacky and non-serious. Which is telling since gnomes and goblins make even Pandaren like Chen look somber.

Actually no, it's considered one of the best expansions partially because of the non-seriousness of it. It was a nice breath of fresh air from the constant dark and brooding themes of TBC, WotLK, and Cataclysm. Not everyone likes to dwell in dark and depressing world-ending themes expansion after expansion. Many people like to take breaks and just enjoy a little levity once in awhile. MoP is a prime example of that, and why it's considered one of the best WoW expansions ever.

[Wangming]

Actually no, it's considered one of the best expansions partially because of the non-seriousness of it.

That's the first time I've heard that. Now the class design, that's praised a lot.

[Hitei]

Actually no, it's considered one of the best expansions partially because of the non-seriousness of it. It was a nice breath of fresh air from the constant dark and brooding themes of TBC, WotLK, and Cataclysm. Not everyone likes to dwell in dark and depressing world-ending themes expansion after expansion. Many people like to take breaks and just enjoy a little levity once in awhile. MoP is a prime example of that, and why it's considered one of the best WoW expansions ever.

Ah yes. I too fondly remember all those posts of "What expansion is your favorite?" "MoP, because Pandaren were such a joke." It's definitely never about class gameplay or reward structures, it's how wacky brewmasters were beating up mean rabbits that definitely made it a memorable expansion and didn't catch any flak.

[Teriz]

That's the first time I've heard that. Now the class design, that's praised a lot.

Really? Quite a few people mention it in this thread;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Expansion-Poll

Obviously the class design was top notch, but many people liked the theme, and breezy feel of the expansion.

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Ah yes. I too fondly remember all those posts of "What expansion is your favorite?" "MoP, because Pandaren were such a joke." It's definitely never about class gameplay or reward structures, it's how wacky brewmasters were beating up mean rabbits that definitely made it a memorable expansion and didn't catch any flak.

I never said that those aspects aren't part of it. However it is laughable to believe that people who like MoP don't like the THEME of the expansion itself. That doesn't even make sense.

[Wangming]

Really? Quite a few people mention it in this thread;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Expansion-Poll

Obviously the class design was top notch, but many people liked the theme, and breezy feel of the expansion.

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I never said that those aspects aren't part of it. However it is laughable to believe that people who like MoP don't like the THEME of the expansion itself. That doesn't even make sense.

When they say they like the theme they are most likely refer to the asian theme and the exploration.

[deviantcultist]

Wouldn't a Tinker class with "Ghostbuster"-styled abilities work just fine in a Shadowlands expansion?

Do you not see anything wrong with turning a rather mysterious and intriguing part of the lore into childish comedy?

With that mindset, you could have added Tinkers with holy-water guns for Undead back in WotLK or exorcist gadgets in Legion. Any story can be ruined if someone wants to ruin it. Does it have to be this story?

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Of course it is.
It's a hypetrain.

Hype about adding a comedy class in a dark expansion? What kind of logic is this?

[Hitei]

I never said that those aspects aren't part of it. However it is laughable to believe that people who like MoP don't like the THEME of the expansion itself. That doesn't even make sense.

No, what's laughable is your outright delusion that people liked MoP for jokes and zany comedy, when pretty much 100% of the time the goofiness of Pandaren, monks, Virmen, etc. was (or is) brought up, it is as a negative against the expansion. And that somehow people liking timeless isle, justice/valor/pvp vendors, and classes with lots of utility means that they should turn a Shadowlands expansion into a complete joke because people managed to deal with the wacky side of Pandaria so why not double down and go even wackier.

People who say "I liked MoP's theme" don't mean "I like silly pandas" they mean "I like the asiatic motifs and style".

[Teriz]

When they say they like the theme they are most likely refer to the asian theme and the exploration.

Well the Pandaren and the Monk class are an inseparable part of that theme and exploration. I mean, when you were exploring Pandaria, you were running into mainly Pandarens.

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Do you not see anything wrong with turning a rather mysterious and intriguing part of the lore into childish comedy?

There's a difference between levity and childish comedy.

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No, what's laughable is your outright delusion that people liked MoP for jokes and zany comedy, when pretty much 100% of the time the goofiness of Pandaren, monks, Virmen, etc. was (or is) brought up, it is as a negative against the expansion. And that somehow people liking timeless isle, justice/valor/pvp vendors, and classes with lots of utility means that they should turn a Shadowlands expansion into a complete joke because people managed to deal with the wacky side of Pandaria so why not double down and go even wackier.

People who say "I liked MoP's theme" don't mean "I like silly pandas" they mean "I like the asiatic motifs and style".

Like I said, read the thread I linked. Just because you disliked the "jokes and zany comedy" (I disagree that MoP is full of jokes and zany comedy btw), doesn't mean that many other people did not.

[Hitei]

Like I said, read the thread I linked. Just because you disliked the "jokes and zany comedy", doesn't mean that many other people did not.

The thread where half the people call MoP shit and the other half don't ever cite jokes as the reason they like MoP?

(I disagree that MoP is full of jokes and zany comedy btw)

Wow, look at that. You managed to figure out why MoP worked and why Gnomes and Goblins leading an expansion wouldn't all on your own.

[Polybius]

Maintaining 20+ people for a mythic team has been a real struggle for us and I imagine other guilds as people lose interest.

I would love to see the return of 10man mythic raiding option.
Less grinding AP type things.
Tier sets return to raids.
More friendly alt expansion,
More class identity again.
More depth in professions so they feel worth having. I didn't mind them having slight bonus's in raids. But for example Enchanting, Only being to enchant 2 slots of gear is a little lackluster. Gem sockets should be guan teed on necks and rings rather then RNG meaning a lower ilvl ring is best because of a socket. Would also make JC used more regularly.
Removal of Titanforge, People who high level raid should be entitled to higher ilvl gear. Some of the RNG Titanforges are crazy,
I think an expansion that is unexpected like MOP would probably be a nice thing also. The last few have sort of continued on from each other.
I personally liked having flying from the start like in MOP, But I know that's a very split opinion!

I'd like to see Island Expeditions continue in some fashion tho, Maybe more about exploration then a race for gathering Azerite

It's so frustrating that we keep getting time-attack events for endgame content. If they let players explore islands from the start they would've tripled the amount of content outside raiding. But no, screw exploring at your own pace.

[Marlamin]

TeamDragonIsle

TeamOldWorldRevamp

I want to be in both of these.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Are there class based teams aswell?

If yes I am all aboard on #TeamTinkers just to trigger Hitei and Deviantcultist even further.

Worry not Teriz, our Mechs will be so fun to play that they will reroll to them aswell!

[Hitei]

It's so frustrating that we keep getting time-attack events for endgame content. If they let players explore islands from the start they would've tripled the amount of content outside raiding. But no, screw exploring at your own pace.

Debatable.

First, because even without an enemy team or time limit, the other 2 people in any given group are probably after doing an island as quickly as possible, not exploration, so the reality is that even without those time factors islands are going to be rushed 99% of the time.

Second, because you aren't tripling anything, you're just grouping the content to one run instead of a few runs. You go to an island, explore it, see what you want to see and then finish up and leave. That exploration would have normally been distributed over say, 2-4 runs of that island, because you only see part of it at a time with the time factors. So now isntead of 2-4 10 minute islands, you've done one 20-40 minute one, and now you are at the exact same place for both, do them as quickly as possible for the secondary farm rewards/azerite, because you've seen the island.

[formerShandalay]

So are we ready to make teams yet?

TeamBlackEmpire

TeamOldWorldRevamp

TeamLeftFieldCrazy

I want all of those ^^
Maybe... Old World revamp first with being overrun by the Black Empire, then turning it into a revamped and beautiful Azeroth over the course of the expansion while we fight the threat? And some stuff out of left field to come at us while we are preoccupied. Or coming at the Old Gods while they are

[Teriz]

The thread where half the people call MoP shit and the other half don't ever cite jokes as the reason they like MoP?

Nah, the thread where MoP is ranked second only to WotLK and multiple posters mention "theme" as the reason they enjoyed the expansion.

Wow, look at that. You managed to figure out why MoP worked and why Gnomes and Goblins leading an expansion wouldn't all on your own.

I'm sure you had a similar attitude about a Pandaren led expansion. However, an expansion led by Pandaren worked out just fine.

[Polybius]

Debatable.

First, because even without an enemy team or time limit, the other 2 people in any given group are probably after doing an island as quickly as possible, not exploration, so the reality is that even without those time factors islands are going to be rushed 99% of the time.

Second, because you aren't tripling anything, you're just grouping the content to one run instead of a few runs. You go to an island, explore it, see what you want to see and then finish up and leave. That exploration would have normally been distributed over say, 2-4 runs of that island, because you only see part of it at a time with the time factors. So now isntead of 2-4 10 minute islands, you've done one 20-40 minute one, and now you are at the exact same place for both, do them as quickly as possible for the secondary farm rewards/azerite, because you've seen the island.

Yeah, exploration aside you can't grab everything you need in one run. All these island expeditions could've been like Timeless Isle, no queue, with hostile teams using the new AI.

[deviantcultist]

There's a difference between levity and childish comedy.

The whole concept of Old Gods/Shadowlands is something that Blizz has been building up since Legion with prophecies, whispers and other hints. Hell, the whole faction war seems to be a preface for it.

With that being said, do you believe they wanted to build it up so they can treat it with "levity" in order to please the vocal Tinker advocates? At this point I'm not really sure if you're trolling or not.