9.0 General Discussion

[DotEleven]

This doesn't actually solve the armor problem at all, because shaman and hunter share a similar aesthetic (rugged/primal, natural) that is completely at odds with Tinker's aesthetic.

Like a Monk or Demon Hunter can go back to any pre-MoP raid, quest, dungeon, etc. and wear basically any leather gear and not look pretty solid. No Tinker is going to get away with most random mail sets or tier recolors because they were all designed for two primal, naturalist classes. To that end, designing future armor also becomes more awkward because you have to lean into very neutral looking standard mail sets, like the KT dungeon set for example, because that's what's going to look passable on all three classes--basically you end up with only clean looking hunter sets, because that's something that shamans can look okay in, and tinkers can look okay in.

There are plenty of pieces of mail equipment which look very metalic and rustic. I have an entire hunter set devoted to looking like one of my mechanical pets and one to match the bow version of Titanstrike.

[Hitei]

There are plenty of pieces of mail equipment which look very metalic and rustic. I have an entire hunter set devoted to looking like one of my mechanical pets and one to match the bow version of Titanstrike.

I didn't say you can't possibly come up with a transmog to match. I said it doesn't solve any problems because the majority of sets don't match that aesthetic, and you have to design future sets with all three classes in mind, resulting in very neutral and plain looking armor sets.

The entire argument here is "there needs to be another mail class so that it's being used effectively". If that class looks bad in most existing mail, you aren't fixing anything, just adding a limiting factor to future design.

You could make a decent looking mage transmog with plate pieces that are in the game. That doesn't mean a plate wearing mage would make plate armor more effectively used.

[Teriz]

what warlocks spells are the common necromancy spells? warlocks use mostly fel magic and shadow(void) magic, they don't summon undead minions but demons

Uh, the entire Affliction spec, including curses, life drains, swapping health for mana, creating health stones, and spells like Haunt and Deathbolt.

Dks are not revolved around undead minions they use as a side tool, and are melee with plate, its the same thing as paladins and priests, warlocks and demon hunters

Unholy revolves around undead minions and diseases. Frost is essentially the Lich, which is a form of Necromancy. Blood is Blood magic optimized for vampirism and tanking. That's also a form of Necromancy.

[Syegfryed]

Uh, the entire Affliction spec, including curses, life drains, swapping health for mana, creating health stones, and spells like Haunt and Deathbolt.

and they don't summon one undead minion, swap heald for mana, ehalt stones, deathbolt are not lich spells, they most use curses based on shadow and fel magic, not death

Unholy revolves around undead minions and diseases.

unholy revolves around using undeads as tool to his own physical empowerment.

Frost is essentially the Lich, which is a form of Necromancy

.
he is not, he is a melee combtant using frost on his weapons

Blood is Blood magic optimized for vampirism and tanking. That's also a form of Necromancy.

not as the classical necromancer, is something only to then, and necromancer don't tank

totally different concepts.

[DotEleven]

I didn't say you can't possibly come up with a transmog to match. I said it doesn't solve any problems because the majority of sets don't match that aesthetic, and you have to design future sets with all three classes in mind, resulting in very neutral and plain looking armor sets.

The entire argument here is "there needs to be another mail class so that it's being used effectively". If that class looks bad in most existing mail, you aren't fixing anything, just adding a limiting factor to future design.

You could make a decent looking mage transmog with plate pieces that are in the game. That doesn't mean a plate wearing mage would make plate armor more effectively used.

You act like they can't use the same armor type and that adding them will somehow limit it. I don't see how when you have Paladins and Death Knights both running around in the same sets. The only time he'd look "bad" is pretty much in class sets which he wouldn't wear anyway.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You act like they can't use the same armor type and that adding them will somehow limit it. I don't see how when you have Paladins and Death Knights both running around in the same sets. The only time he'd look "bad" is pretty much in class sets which he wouldn't wear anyway.

It sure won't make them more creative. Given we get like 4 sets total now per expansion.

[Hitei]

You act like they can't use the same armor type and that adding them will somehow limit it. I don't see how when you have Paladins and Death Knights both running around in the same sets. The only time he'd look "bad" is pretty much in class sets which he wouldn't wear anyway.

What are you talking about? The point is divergent themes on the same armor type. Paladins, death knights and warriors all use the same plated knight look.


If you put a Warrior in this, you have a warrior in edgy armor.
If you put a DK in this, you have a regular DK.
If you put a Paladin in this, you have a fallen-looking Paladin.



If you put a Tinker in this, it looks like a fucking mess.

Because Tinkers have a very specific mechanical aesthetic that is completely counter to the aesthetic 95% of mail armor in the game uses, which is natural and primitive looking. Yes, you introduce a limit, because sets like this no longer work. You can't release a primary mail set that is just diametrically opposed to one of your three mail classes--so instead you start designing all mail sets to be more general mail armor. Because general scale/chain mail is what doesn't look ridiculous on a Tinker. Instead of getting shaman-looking sets that look good/okay on a hunter, and hunter-looking sets that look good/okay on a shaman, you get hunter-looking sets that look okay on shaman and Tinker, and nothing else.

That doesn't mean Tinkers somehow don't work. It just means exactly what I said: they don't solve the issue of there being 2 classes that use mail. At all. They only make it even more complicated.

[Blayze]

This is why you make Tinkers into characters sealed inside power armour, whether that be gnomes in robot suits, goblins in shredders, Lightforged in their warframes or Blood Elven souls controlling Arcane Golems.

That way they can use gear slots like everyone else for balance purposes, but have their appearance be separate (unlocked like Legion artefact appearances, perhaps) from the items.

And each faction then gains both a comedy Tinker archetype and a serious one.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This is why you make Tinkers into characters sealed inside power armour, whether that be gnomes in robot suits, goblins in shredders, Lightforged in their warframes or Blood Elven souls controlling Arcane Golems.

That way they can use gear slots like everyone else for balance purposes, but have their appearance be separate (unlocked like Legion artefact appearances, perhaps) from the items.

And each faction then gains both a comedy Tinker archetype and a serious one.

See this is exactly what I meant by "I hope Tinkers aren't just 'You're a D.Va Gnome.'"

[Foolicious]

You do realize they are going to unprune the classes and specs right? Ion even recognized this and admitted that the designs fell flat (miles after everybody else). Unpruning the garbage they did in Legion and even worse BFA is the best thing they could do at this point.

Still don't know how i feel about this. They seem to have aknowledged the problem with class design, but i fear we won't get a satisfying solution.
I can totally see them using the new wc3 icons give each class/spec a spell back they lost and call it a day.
Fingers crossed that the new expansion will be remembered for major class updates, not legion.

[Revamp Man]

what a nice leak to read, not the usual bullshit, pretty believed stuff (kinda to mark off that hyjal being the new starter area was already theorized before)

Sounds totally believed and within line with the new info we have, like the lv squish, world revamp and new starting areas(something long overdue)

Surprised to see alterac being their new capital, they would be close to the orcs and ogres, a bit sad that alterac had never a chance to regrow as an alliance city with so much focus on stormwind, the forsaken will do a best use of it for sure.



totally believable.,but im not familiarized with those new areas and quel'dracon seems a stupid name, so its blizzard lv.



Also totally believable, even thinking pandaren druid would be a waste, sadly no worgen monks.

Necromancer also make a lot of sense.



that seems odd

a dragon who like man, and a man who look like dragon, why? they would not be that different...

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the blight is something very powerful, and that quantity, how long until someone can live there? tis good to notice that even today there is still races of plague in the elven lands.

Jaina can just freeze it

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Here we come dragon isles here we come
Here we come dragonsworn here we come
Here we come permanent non rental character progression here we come
Here we come infinite dragonflight creation here we come
Here we come level squish here we come

Out you go shadowlands expansion out you go
Out you go awakenings expansion out you go
Out you go endless grind out you go

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I dont understand how Arthas turns that quickly evil, but I guess Bolvar also didnt have Dreadlords corrupting his mind.

Although I dont see Nerzhuls Helmet being any much better than Dreadlord whispers, or is the Hat silent?

Arthas was already struggling
He had Strath and also frostmourne that slowly corrupted his soul
He didn't get the helmet until he was already going going gone

Bolvar was unbroken
Frostmourne shattered
You had a righteous warrior take to the throne

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Wasn't there beef between Bolvar and Alexstrasza in Legion, during the DK campaign? It shows up again in Drustvar, a red dragon's conversation lines.

you know it would almost make sense that the lich King who wants you to slaughter the red dragons would look to expanding his forces if there was suddenly a resurgence of the red dragon flights power where they got all of their abilities back huh

Like if the dragonflights found a way to regain what was taken from them

almost like they are dimming torches and they're looking for a flame that will help them burn brighter

and of course that would mean that there are five dragonflights so there would be like 5 torches

End with the lich King having beef with one of the dragons who gets their powers back it's almost like he needs a stronger army and therefore would start turning the races that we see now

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If this then, you can never say “other side of Azeroth” because clearly Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms, well, say “hi.”

Just pointing out that for years it has been stated that it seems as though the lower parts of the two main continents are more equator weather than one would expect at the South Pole

[Revamp Man]

It was a feat of strength and it did go live, as I received it but it was removed after back lash that dk's got a feat connected to their mount (if that's what you are referring to anyway, Killing all the red dragons).

Shhhhh
He's a bit slow
Let's wait for him to realize that shelder bit his tail (by shelder I mean obvious facts that Google can give in a few seconds)

[Teriz]

and they don't summon one undead minion, swap heald for mana, ehalt stones, deathbolt are not lich spells, they most use curses based on shadow and fel magic, not death

Why would they? Death Knights do that.

Deathbolt is a classic Necromancer ability.

What's the difference between a curse using shadow magic and a curse using death magic?

unholy revolves around using undeads as tool to his own physical empowerment.

So you're saying that a Necromancer would never use its minions to empower itself? Isn't that a core aspect of every pet/summoner class?

.

he is not, he is a melee combtant using frost on his weapons

Howling Blast, Chains of Ice, Glacial Advance, Remorseless Winter, Breath of Sindragosa, Frostwryms Fury, and Lichborne say otherwise.

not as the classical necromancer, is something only to then, and necromancer don't tank

HotS and Diablo 3 shows that Blizzard has very unique takes on the Necromancer concept that are anything but "classical".

totally different concepts.

Except Blizzard put the Necromancer concept into the DK class. How can they be "totally different concepts"? The WC3 Necromancer's abilities are housed in the Death Knight class.

[Revamp Man]

Cata to WoD was amazing class design, and imo the best ever. Remember Legion prepatch? Lul that prune. Legion was terrible for that as the specs didn't feel whole until the artifact was entirely fleshed out and even then they were mere shadows of what they were as the talent redesigns were imo worse than WoDs (WoD had awesome talents js). Legions course was acceptable as they pruned but made up for it for the artifact by 110 AND legiondaries, so technically they pruned and cut a lot of abilities but made up for it with two other design components.

In BFA they tried the same by pruning (even further madness by removing the artifact but only supplying a neck in exchange). Not only that, there isnt even a 120 talent tier lol. The neck cant ever possibly make up the loss for a possible new talent tier, artiact loss, legendary loss and ability pruning loss. That design philosophy just doesnt cut it. That didn't work out, a majority of why people quit at least to my knowledge is because class design is the worst it's ever been in the history of the game.

I miss Mops class design, everything was versatile and had awesome utility. I'm excited for class/spec redesigns but if they are shit or they don't do them (they kind of have to with both recognizing the faults and why people left) I'm out for good. Nobody wants to play or do any form of content when their class/spec feels like a mere shadow if what it used to be.

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LOL 12/10 absolute perfection

Why thank you good sir

Also I think I am the only monk that misses chi explosion....but not the only one who misses being able to CONTROL MY DAMN CLONES!!!

[brt2pp]

Except Blizzard put the Necromancer concept into the DK class. How can they be "totally different concepts"? The WC3 Necromancer's abilities are housed in the Death Knight class.

demon hunters, and this is end of this argument
also i don't think dk's exemplify well enough the feeling of beeing master of undead minions, they feel more like just opposite to paladin, we need opposite to priest (just before some clever comment, warlocks aren't opposite to priests, they're opposite to mages, mages are all about learning, and gaining knowledge through study, warlocks are about gaining knowledge through pacts with powerfull beeings), we currently have dh+warlocks, priest+palas but dk's are only ones without clothy counterpart, imo necromancers makes waaaaaay more sense then out of nowhere tech based class

[CaptainV]

One thing im banking on them doing in 9.0 is keeping allied races but I think they will make them neutral races going forwards, my thesis is that in 9.0 we will get allied races that both factions can play as, but 8.3.5 will be the last patch in which the factions get faction specific allied races being light forged undead for alliance or horde with the possiblity of it being the first allied race both factions might recieve.


Regardless, going forward, I suspect there will be "Less" allied races in 9.0 to 9.3 but there will still be quite a few, I am predicting 6, just like the alliance/horde is currently leading up to.

My thesis on these races and which ones players will get are:

Vrykul
Ethereals
Mogu
Naga
Dragonkin
And something new.


I also believe that at some point being added to the base race starting choices will be High Elves and Ogres for Alliance/Horde being the "Last two" starting races they ever add but that might be 10.0 material and probably leading closer towards what may very well be the finale for world of warcraft 1.

I do still think WoW 2 is on the table and probably in development at this point as they are more than aware the "Magic" of WoW has faded meaning they need something completley -new- to revitalise the franchise, id say the next few expansions will largely focus on being the epilogue and "moving forward" chapters of wow itself.

But my predictions are:

9.0 They will add Necromancer or Tinker, or both.
10.0 They will add sub-classes (4th spec for some classes).
11.0 They will add player housing and guild housing.
12.0 The game will go into maintinence mode and essentially be finished.

Why 4 more expansions?

Blizzard has always said they wanted wow to last 20ish years, and that means if this is now its 15th anniversary then we are due about another 3 expansions at the least, perhaps including a 4th to send the game off once and for all.

What about classic?

Classic will either be a success or a failure, but my predictions is its likley to be bitter-sweet, and more likely fail than succeed. While its done immensely better than predicted the fact remains that by phase 6 the game will be "completed" and then blizzard willl have to decide between making TBC servers or classic +.

I agree with mad seasons youtube video on this, and that if the game is failing, they'll work on classic + to make it more appealing again while if it does well they'll make up to WOTLK over several phases.

But I do not predict classic will go beyond WOTLK as after WOTLK comes the old world revamp which means the game is "no longer" classic.

Vanillia to Wrath is the crux limit of Classic which if they stretch it they could milk it for about 6-7 years which aligns well with my theory of 12.0 because it'd be the same point in which the final expansion would be launched for wow itself.

Imho this would work for blizz as it would allow them to compramise between old content and new without having to make cata servers which largely was accepted as the "beginning of the end" due to its radical changes in gameplay design philosophy aswell as generally just being the weakest "classic era" expansion even if it wasnt really "classic" by the end.

Regardless.

9.0 We can expect more allied races.
I think 10.0 We can expect the last -playable- races being High Elves/Ogres because I think they know they're due.
11.0 they might add more allied races again one more time, like Arrakoa etc, but I suspect they will largely focus on customisation like maybe giving Eredar to the Draenei etc.
And 12.0 I think will have no new content largely and focus on being more of a story epilogue.

[TriHard]

No it isn't. YOu are basically recycling parts form DK's and Warlocks to create it. Nothing original about it at all.

Stop this fucking retarded argument, you said the same about demon hunters and look what happened.
Just stop dude, it's an outdated and pathetic argument.

[Syegfryed]

Jaina can just freeze it

she can't tough, there was just a short time effect, and before the big explosion, when unfreeze its goes back to do damage.

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Why would they? Death Knights do that.

they are not rly based on undead minions, they are just side tools, they are melee combatants, something what is the opposite of necromancers

Deathbolt is a classic Necromancer ability.

from where? they didn't use on wc3, and they can always remove from aflic, tis a shit spell that they put this expansion that they can get away.

What's the difference between a curse using shadow magic and a curse using death magic?

the curses obviously

So you're saying that a Necromancer would never use its minions to empower itself? Isn't that a core aspect of every pet/summoner class?

no, necromancer empower their minions, not himself, and use then to attack, the core "summoner" class is not use the minions to empower himself.

Howling Blast, Chains of Ice, Glacial Advance, Remorseless Winter, Breath of Sindragosa, Frostwryms Fury, and Lichborne say otherwise.

4 skills here are for melee usage, like i said, its a melee warior using magic, not a caster, you don't need to be a genius to se a difference.

HotS and Diablo 3 shows that Blizzard has very unique takes on the Necromancer concept that are anything but "classical".

and it can totally come up fine

Except Blizzard put the Necromancer concept into the DK class. How can they be "totally different concepts"? The WC3 Necromancer's abilities are housed in the Death Knight class.

because a death knight is a melee Knight combatant, this is not what a necromancer is, they care share concepts just fine, just like paladins and priests, warlocks and Demon hunters

[TriHard]

Also for the peeps in here, you have to think about the Diablo necromancer, they can be ranged and melee at the same time.
They can go two routes for armor: Mail or Cloth with a armor self-buff.

It would essentially be like the hunter, one melee spec and one ranged spec separated, plus it could probably somehow have healing capabilities as a third spec too. The Diablo 3 Necromancer is a perfect fit for WoW because of how much variety it has, it could have class-exclusive Scythes as well.

[uzira]

WHY ARE PEOPLE EVEN THINKING OF GETTING A NECROMANCER CLAS????

Literally the warlock AND the DK class do everything a necromancer does..