9.0 General Discussion

[infinitemeridian]

This is sad. Two years ago we were thousands of pages ahead, happily debating wether we will get Ghost Pirates or Zandalar. Now we are debating class design.

Where is the hype? And don't give me that bullshit about the patch thread.

How are class design and hype mutually exclusive? We're discussing how a new class would be implemented.

[Blayze]

Gotta say, it'd be nice to get a Hero Class that isn't fucking emo or grimdark.

[CaptainV]

Normally, I dont give this kinda thing any attention because honestly its not worth it but since you're clearly eager to get a reply, ill humour you "once".

No allied races will always be faction specific as they where never really happy how pandas turned out....

They also said we'd get a dance studio.

I suspect there will be more because more content is always better then less.

I mean, sure, we've had less raids in favour of more tiers of raid, less dungeons in favour of more dungeon tiers... less ways to farm reputation because they want to time gate it longer... no flying at launch Its not like they've removed content before or anything.

And I doubt we get any of these.

Im "fairly" confident at least two of them are a given.

have you ever learn of something as simple called math? lets say wow would be down to 500k players that would be 500.000 * 13 = 6.500.000 bucks a month from wow alone! (thats is also 78.000.000 bucks a year!) thats not counting the money they make from the shop and people buying tokens with bucks. there is ZERO need for a wow2 as each xpac revitalises the game. (apart from the fact that no one that invested 15 years into wow would just throw that away to start wow 2 thats why wow 2 is NEVER going to happen)

Revitalises it how? They make a brief buck for one month followed by a rapid drop in profits for the rest of the year. And if we're talking about investment, even the most die hard vets are retiring from content fatigue and generally the now same old recepie since WoD blizz keeps trying to repeat which has worked a grand total of never.

Need I remind you, that WoD and BFA are the most hated expansions the game has ever seen with BFA being the lowest grossing return rate they games ever had to date?

You wanna talk money, now talk profit vs investments, did you consider it costs money to keep employee's employed, costs money to keep servers running, and make new classic ones? You dont just make money you then have to spend into the cuts that other companies make off your profits like your shareholders (hello netease) which means the profit your left with issssss...

Pretty minimal, and telling, when their best income right now is from the china market hearthstone card packs which people can buy again and again a day rather than a once per month injection of money.

Your quite right, as someone who played since just before AB was first introduced to the game, people who invest years into their life may indeed still have some sentimental attachment to the game, but I imagine a fair few are warming up to the idea of something fresh and new, something that can attract a new generation of players (and profits) which makes your argument completley null.

ROFL, yeah no you dont abonden something that makes you 78+ mil bucks a year. I get it you dont like wow.

Dont like is a strong way of saying, want to see it perform better. And yes, yes you do abbandon it if those bucks are being taken out of shareholders and stocks that got knocked down by 5% since this entire hong kong fiasco. When your bleeding money to keep your sponsors happy and your barely making buck to keep yourself afloat its time to ask how much the cost of a server is vs how much it is to merge it for the cheap.

Diablo Immortal? You honestly think blizzard is ABOVE abbandoning their franchises?

there will never be a Classic+, or WoW2 or Tauren Rogues.

Tauren Rogues quite probably will happen eventually, Classic+, WoW2 is also not off the table, WoW 2 is more likely than classic + because classic plus DEPENDS on success or failure.

that random youtuber of your is wrong.

Thats funny, hes never been before?

I consider this the joke of the day

Im glad to have humoured you, and now you've humoured me, dont expect another reply this time.

[infinitemeridian]

We're not getting classic+ people, if anything they will take things from classic and mesh them onto retail.

[Wangming]

How are class design and hype mutually exclusive? We're discussing how a new class would be implemented.

Well it shouldn't be, but we are over two thousand pages behind. Clearly hype is not as big as at the end of Legion.

[AngerFork]

Well it shouldn't be, but we are over two thousand pages behind. Clearly hype is not as big as at the end of Legion.

I'd argue that also partially is due to how much the BFA Speculation Thread has siphoned posts from this hype thread. At this point, we had already been on Argus for a month and a half in Legion. Compare that to 8.3 which we just found out about this past week and it isn't super hard IMO to see why many speculation posts are going there instead of here.

[Foolicious]

Well it shouldn't be, but we are over two thousand pages behind. Clearly hype is not as big as at the end of Legion.

After they delivered bfa not a big surprise isn't it? Legion was despite its flaws a good expansion. We anticipated the next step of artifacts, mage tower and class order halls. All of this, and more, was removed. Its hard to be hyped after they delivered azerite armor.
We even had believable leaks at this point. All we get this year is a summary of speculation every two weeks, which doesn't excite anyone.
Also the 8.3 thread is mostly 9.0 discussion for whatever reason.

[TheProphetLord]

Have there been any new "leaks"? I know they are not real but I love to see where the community thinks we are going with WoW.

[Nyel]

those DH naysayers said the same thing

To be fair Demon Hunters are entirely different from Warlocks only Blizzard decided to give them the Metamorphosis stuff. An Unholy Death Knight is 100% a Necromancer. Necromancer can work as a ranged spec for Death Knight but it will never work as a new class.

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If random people on the internet can come up with unique necromancer concepts that don't take away from dks, then so can a multi billion dollar company.

So might not take away from DK but they're too similar to them, even if it's only one spec that basically mimicks Unholy with a ranged playstyle.

[Raetary]

So might not take away from DK but they're too similar to them

And for the millionth time, they don't have to be if Blizzard chooses not to make them like that.

[Syegfryed]

To be fair Demon Hunters are entirely different from Warlocks only Blizzard decided to give them the Metamorphosis stuff. An Unholy Death Knight is 100% a Necromancer. Necromancer can work as a ranged spec for Death Knight but it will never work as a new class.

paladin and priest is the same paralel of dk and necromancer, is like saying they can make priest a range spec for resto pala

DK is a melee fighter with plate, that is not what a necromancer is, a dk ranged is dumb as fuck, removing the knight in the word entirely.

So might not take away from DK but they're too similar to them, even if it's only one spec that basically mimicks Unholy with a ranged playstyle.

or they can actually stop trying to mimic a necromancer and they don't stay with this lame ass design, cause its not rly working.

[Nyel]

And for the millionth time, they don't have to be if Blizzard chooses not to make them like that.

HOW?!

Necromancers: controlling the dead, summon undead, using plagues/diseases/frost (this is basically the concept for Necromancer in every game I've played)

Death Knights control the dead, summon undead, use plagues, diseases and frost damage.

The only niche for Necromancers is a healing spec, there is absolutely no room for a Necromancer DPS spec outside of DKs.

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paladin and priest is the same paralel of dk and necromancer, is like saying they can make priest a range spec for resto pala

DK is a melee fighter with plate, that is not what a necromancer is, a dk ranged is dumb as fuck, removing the knight in the word entirely.

Paladin and Priest are 15 years in the game now. The comparison is lacking a lot. I agree though, they're quite similar and that's the reason we will never see Necromancer as a class. Priest has the benefit of the doubt with Shadow and Discipline, only Holy is similar to Paladins.

[Syegfryed]

Paladin and Priest are 15 years in the game now. The comparison is lacking a lot. I agree though, they're quite similar and that's the reason we will never see Necromancer as a class. Priest has the benefit of the doubt with Shadow and Discipline, only Holy is similar to Paladins.

fire mages and destro warlocks are a lot similar, yet, two different classes.

frost mage and frost dks

DH and warlocks in general using fel magic

why in the ass with necros and DKs would be different?, the apothecary spec by exemple would be something totally unique not shared by any other class.

We have A LOT of necromancer like spells in bfa, guys like Bwosandi and the murlocs in nazjatar, soul/death magic that no other class use

they can stop trying to mimic the necromancer and DKs can actually have an identity, and necromancers would be fine.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

And for the millionth time, they don't have to be if Blizzard chooses not to make them like that.

The more I look at people's Necromancer concepts the more I ask "where is the overlap here?"

We have two light classes, we have two demon classes, the tinker and dark ranger concepts both would mean we have two ranger classes. If you want a wholly original class at this point with absolutely no overlap you'd better start inventing new elements out of thin air. Light, Void, Fel, Arcane, Life, Death? They've all been covered.

If we want to get into actual specifics on where mechanical overlap is, again, not seeing it. I'm sure everyone will say "Well Unholy already has a pet" and sure, but has anyone suggested that Necromancer's gameplay is about building up stacks to mutate your pet into an abomination? No. Unholy as it is now can still exist without changes should Necromancer be added. This isn't a "Demonology Warlocks have the signature Demon Hunter skill so that spec will need a complete redesign" situation.

And Necromancer doesn't steal a damn thing from a tanking spec or the melee DPS spec.

[Nyel]

fire mages and destro warlocks are a lot similar, yet, two different classes.

frost mage and frost dks

DH and warlocks in general using fel magic

why in the ass with necros and DKs would be different?, the apothecary spec by exemple would be something totally unique not shared by any other class.

We have A LOT of necromancer like spells in bfa, guys like Bwosandi and the murlocs in nazjatar, soul/death magic that no other class use

they can stop trying to mimic the necromancer and DKs can actually have an identity, and necromancers would be fine.

Fire and Destro are not similar as they use different sources of magic (which was changed some years ago to distinguish both classes more).

All your examples are great points why we will never see a Necromancer class. Why would they even add further similarity? Tinker is a completely unique and fresh concept, why would they even bother with Necromancers at this point? Just because it's about death? Uhm...

When it comes to "original" new classes at the moment it's like:

Tinker > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dark Ranger > > > Necromancer

[Raetary]

HOW?!

Simple.

Death knights are a melee class.
Undead juggernauts of death, jumping into the heat of battle and slaughter anyone in their way with powerful necromantic rune magic and the powers of the Lich king.

Necromancers are casters.
Magi that chose to take up this particular school of magic for power, control and whatever other reasons.
They harness the very essence of death and unleash its power upon their allies and foes, either through raw necromantic magic, or diseases and curses and whatnot.

Yes, Necromancer and DKs share a theme.
That of death and undeath.

So do warlocks and demon hunters.
Demons, fel and chaos.

So do paladins and priests.
Light, faith and divinity.

If we take in specifics we can even put shamans and monks, hunters and druids, warriors and rogues together as well.

Sharing a theme is not and will never be a reason to not implement a new class, regardless of whether it's a necromancer, dark ranger or any other one someone could bring up.

why would they even bother with Necromancers at this point?

Because they are one of the most iconic and beloved fantasy classes in pretty much every franchise?
How the fuck is that even a question?

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Fire and Destro are not similar as they use different sources of magic (which was changed some years ago to distinguish both classes more).

All your examples are great points why we will never see a Necromancer class. Why would they even add further similarity? Tinker is a completely unique and fresh concept, why would they even bother with Necromancers at this point? Just because it's about death? Uhm...

When it comes to "original" new classes at the moment it's like:

Tinker > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dark Ranger > > > Necromancer

Simple.

Death knights are a melee class.
Undead juggernauts of death, jumping into the heat of battle and slaughter anyone in their way with powerful necromantic rune magic and the powers of the Lich king.

Necromancers are casters.
Magi that chose to take up this particular school of magic for power, control and whatever other reasons.
They harness the very essence of death and unleash its power upon their allies and foes, either through raw necromantic magic, or diseases and curses and whatnot.

Yes, Necromancer and DKs share a theme.
That of death and undeath.

So do warlocks and demon hunters.
Demons, fel and chaos.

So do paladins and priests.
Light, faith and divinity.

If we take in specifics we can even put shamans and monks, hunters and druids, warriors and rogues together as well.

Sharing a theme is not and will never be a reason to not implement a new class, regardless of whether it's a necromancer, dark ranger or any other one someone could bring up.


Because they are one of the most iconic and beloved fantasy classes in pretty much every franchise?
How the fuck is that even a question?

Imo Necromancer should come at one point, but definitely not before more interesting and new approaches of themes.

[Gratlim]

HOW?!

Necromancers: controlling the dead, summon undead, using plagues/diseases/frost (this is basically the concept for Necromancer in every game I've played)

Death Knights control the dead, summon undead, use plagues, diseases and frost damage.

The only niche for Necromancers is a healing spec, there is absolutely no room for a Necromancer DPS spec outside of DKs.

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Paladin and Priest are 15 years in the game now. The comparison is lacking a lot. I agree though, they're quite similar and that's the reason we will never see Necromancer as a class. Priest has the benefit of the doubt with Shadow and Discipline, only Holy is similar to Paladins.

Blizzard can -make- room. They could totally remove the unholy spec entirely or re-design it to make a Necro class.
This is pretty much what happenened to Demonology warlocks with metamorphosis. The whole spec was built around it and got destroyed to make DH playable.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Imo Necromancer should come at one point, but definitely not before more interesting and new approaches of themes.

Implying Necromancer can't be a more interesting and new approach on a theme.

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Blizzard can -make- room. They could totally remove the unholy spec entirely or re-design it to make a Necro class.
This is pretty much what happenened to Demonology warlocks with metamorphosis. The whole spec was built around it and got destroyed to make DH playable.

Or, shockingly, leave it as it is because it has no real overlap with Necromancer.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Implying Necromancer can't be a more interesting and new approach on a theme.

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Or, shockingly, leave it as it is because it has no real overlap with Necromancer.

We got a class around Necromancy and Diseases already, and one spec revolving completly around undead minions and diseases and shadow damage.

That makes Necromancer right now by what we know of it not an interesting and new approach of a theme we dont have yet. Stop being stubborn just because you want the Class to see it.