9.0 General Discussion

[Paula Deen]

...Thats your correlation?


Yeah no you're full of it.

They have one zone to show for approx 5 months of time, 3 months if you exclude 'Holiday break'.

I know you love the game man. I do too, but this is no beuno. I am also not at all impressed with the Shaman abilities presented so far, but that is super subjective, so I can't fault em for that.

[FlubberPuddy]

Casuals min-max. Casuals sim. Casuals look up guides.
Trying to paint it in a very black and white picture of totally hardcore no-nonsense players and happy go-lucky casuals who just want to frolick in the grass without a care in the world is dishonesty. You aren't right and you're going to be right there with the masses later this year whining about covenants forcing you to pick what's best because the majority of the player-base will be doing it.

There's already a few posters chiming in here they prefer the abilities being unique and some mentioning how it helps with now having to worry about min-maxing. This isn't painting it black & white at all, that is what a lot of people freaking out over min-maxing are doing.

You either pick the covenant because you like it's aesthetics, or you pick what you feel/what some spreadsheet tells you optimizes your character. The decision comes down to what you prioritize, that's not black and white at all. That's reality.

Also no I won't because I already have explained I play a middle-of-the-pack class and am doing heroic/high m+ content (that is through both pugs/guilds) with no issues ever being turned down 'cuz you're a ret pally and not mage/rogue/dh'.

I've also never whined about being forced to pick something in the game because I don't choose to play that way so no I won't be there with the masses that feel compelled to follow w/e fotm there is. Nice projecting.

- - - Updated - - -

And how many people don't even care for Rated PvP because of that reason?

Many don't care to do rated PvP because it is hard to get into, not that the rewards are limited. There's a reason people request solo-que so much for PvP. People want it to be easier to get into.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

There's already a few posters chiming in here they prefer the abilities being unique and some mentioning how it helps with now having to worry about min-maxing. This isn't painting it black & white at all, that is what a lot of people freaking out over min-maxing are doing.

You either pick the covenant because you like it's aesthetics, or you pick what you feel/what some spreadsheet tells you optimizes your character. The decision comes down to what you prioritize, that's not black and white at all. That's reality.

Also no I won't because I already have explained I play a middle-of-the-pack class and am doing heroic/high m+ content (that is through both pugs/guilds) with no issues ever being turned down 'cuz you're a ret pally and not mage/rogue/dh'.

I've also never whined about being forced to pick something in the game because I don't choose to play that way so no I won't be there with the masses that feel compelled to follow w/e fotm there is. Nice projecting.

I was pointing out being casual doesn't mean they don't min max or even hardcore players always min max. There's no correlation.

[Lohal]

They have one zone to show for approx 5 months of time, 3 months if you exclude 'Holiday break'.

I know you love the game man. I do too, but this is no beuno. I am also not at all impressed with the Shaman abilities presented so far, but that is super subjective, so I can't fault em for that.

I'm pretty sure most Betas have started with only one zone (except for BfA seeing as factions had different continents).

[EbaumsTipster]

They have one zone to show for approx 5 months of time, 3 months if you exclude 'Holiday break'.

I know you love the game man. I do too, but this is no beuno. I am also not at all impressed with the Shaman abilities presented so far, but that is super subjective, so I can't fault em for that.

Looks like a reverse BFA actually: systems done first, zones second.

[FlubberPuddy]

Limitations on aesthetics is one thing, but DPS is another. Nobody enjoys playing a race solely for a racial: why would anyone like choosing a covenant over a button? That's not enticing, that's retarded.

The people who play a race solely for a racial are like <1% of the playerbase, and Blizzard has already shown they don't care to serve that type of player. Because that's the kind of player that will always min-max no matter what.

Others here are trying to say the trickle down effect will affect them, I'm not sure how many of these people are the 'I only picked this race cuz the racial was too amazing for the class type'. Regardless, majority of players are not like that.

Often when new player shows up on Reddit asking for 'what race to play' there's hundreds of people telling em pick what you like or giving hundreds of upvotes to those sorts of comments.

That shows that even the dozen or so that happen to post their complaints about min-maxing racial skills here are far out-numbered by the average playerbase.

[Chickat]

One zone. rofl.

This is gonna be WoD 2

1 zone for targeted feedback as always? It was the same in legion.

[Bigthumbb]

They have one zone to show for approx 5 months of time, 3 months if you exclude 'Holiday break'.

I know you love the game man. I do too, but this is no beuno. I am also not at all impressed with the Shaman abilities presented so far, but that is super subjective, so I can't fault em for that.

...? One zone being available at the start of alpha doesn't mean it's the only zone that's done, or close to done lol. It just means they're focusing testing there for now. Is that not almost always the way alphas go?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Also pretty sure Legion started with one zone to cause I'm looking at the announcement of Val'Sharah being available after the date the alpha came out.

[FlubberPuddy]

I was pointing out being casual doesn't mean they don't min max or even hardcore players always min max. There's no correlation.

That's true, I'm just using the 'casual' definition as in the number of players per population. There's typically less 'hardcore' players than 'casual' players.

I'd call myself casual too because I don't do mythic raiding, but I still do heroic, high m+ keys, and sim my character (albeit with my own preferences, like a r3 C&S would increase my dps output but fuck that I ain't doing Rated PvP lol).

[Chickat]

They have one zone to show for approx 5 months of time, 3 months if you exclude 'Holiday break'.

I know you love the game man. I do too, but this is no beuno. I am also not at all impressed with the Shaman abilities presented so far, but that is super subjective, so I can't fault em for that.

Thats how it works. They never release all the zones at once, and I expect you know that. We will have half the leveling zones within 3 weeks. Thats not slow. Likely all leveling zones and end game testying starting by the end of May/ beginning of June. That leaves 4 or 5 months for end game testing.

[ZyntosAran]

They have one zone to show for approx 5 months of time, 3 months if you exclude 'Holiday break'.

I know you love the game man. I do too, but this is no beuno. I am also not at all impressed with the Shaman abilities presented so far, but that is super subjective, so I can't fault em for that.

Blue says, they gonna add ravendrath end of April.

[Paula Deen]

Too many replies to quote without being an anusface.

IF its true BIG IF that Ravendrath is coming in April I will definitely slow my roll. The big difference with Legion and BFA is the time delay. Its unfair to compare the two, but I will concede its also unfair for me to judge this was WoD 2 with one zone unlocked.

[RippedLife]

its def wod 2 lmao

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

The Necrolord cloth set better be some amazing Lich Lord shit.

Hi by the way, Kel'thuzad.

I want a skull hood. Let me go full on necro-lock.

[Marcellus1986]

1 zone for targeted feedback as always? It was the same in legion.

I think Paula Deen has clogged arteries. Cutting off blood supply to the brain hinders critical thinking skills. Cut her some slack because she loves butter.

[Halfaheart]

The min-maxing argument for the covenant abilities really shouldnt exist when you look at the data for essence acquisition. Most casual players dont have a full line up of rank 3s and are either stuck with using what they have unlocked or using lower ranked essences because they don't want to do the grind. I can't imagine one ability making a gamechanging difference

[Arcinatoss]

Too many replies to quote without being an anusface.

IF its true BIG IF that Ravendrath is coming in April I will definitely slow my roll. The big difference with Legion and BFA is the time delay. Its unfair to compare the two, but I will concede its also unfair for me to judge this was WoD 2 with one zone unlocked.

I believe it said Revendreth and a look at Torghast in April

[Bigthumbb]

But don't unique cosmetics and an entire base of operations and storyline already give covenants an appeal (and are exclusive as well)? Does it have to affect gameplay too?

True, cosmetics/base of operations/storyline do offer an appeal, but not a very substantial one without abilities as well. The abilities are what makes the whole concept tick for me; they're a consequential choice.

I've always been the kind of player to min/max lightly, but at the same time I often make decisions to pick talents that I like the most even when they're not optimal, and try to play with them as intelligently as I can (and it is always sufficient to clear heroic raids as well as the early mythic bosses, which is what I typically do in a tier). So the covenant concept isn't distressing to me.

Something I don't see people bringing up: it's not just aesthetics vs. ability output as far as choosing your covenant. It's the actual abilities themselves, too, regardless of their tuning. Are they interesting and fun? Are they enjoyable within your spec's rotation? That'll certainly influence my covenant decision, regardless of how good they are performance-wise. I just love the concept of having to choose the whole package; the covenant, its zone, its aesthetics, its characters, your class's armor set, the general abilities, and, of course, the class abilities. I like the idea of being, for example, a 'Kyrian Mage.'

I get your apprehension, though, I really do. Maybe deeply affecting gameplay is a line that shouldn't be crossed. And the idea of being a permanent Kyrian Mage may very well be naive and unrealistic. But if they back off the exclusivity of the abilities, I feel like covenants lose their substance/consequence.

[Caerule]

Too many replies to quote without being an anusface.

IF its true BIG IF that Ravendrath is coming in April I will definitely slow my roll. The big difference with Legion and BFA is the time delay. Its unfair to compare the two, but I will concede its also unfair for me to judge this was WoD 2 with one zone unlocked.

For clarity in this discussion, Blizzard's words were:

Later in April we hope to offer the zone of Revendreth, as well as a look at Torghast, Tower of the Damned, our endless dungeon experience