9.0 General Discussion

[literallysame]

That isn't "Garrosh" though, it is a different orc who is the son of AU Grom who just happens to be called Garrosh.

He is still the son of Grom and called Garrosh therefore making him alt Garrosh. You can say that about literally every alt character in WoD then.

[Nagawithlegs]

BfA barely did happen. It was taken over by Old Gods halfway and then ended like it always built up to that.

It did always build up to that. They just slapped on the Shadowlands/War Stuff because executives were scared nobody liked Nzoth anymore.

[Sondrelk]

He is still the son of Grom and called Garrosh therefore making him alt Garrosh. You can say that about literally every alt character in WoD then.

There is a subtle difference though.
Garrosh was the son of Garrosh and his wife, but said wife died in the AU, making this a different Garrosh, presumably named after the Garrosh that we know.

Yes, it is possible that he is identical to the Garrosh we know in the same way AU Grom is the same as original Grom, and AU Gul'dan is the same as the MU Gul'dan. But there is a difference, sutbel though it may be.

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It did always build up to that. They just slapped on the Shadowlands/War Stuff because executives were scared nobody liked Nzoth anymore.

More like they slapped on the Old God stuff on the tail end of BfA.

The entire expansion seemed to build towards a grand crescendo where the faction war would finally end properly, and everything was set for Sylvanas to be the final boss.
Then she ran away and N'zoth stepped onto the scene. And while he was foreshadowed heavily, he still had nothing to do with the Faction war story that was so integral to the first half of BfA.

[Gorsameth]

There is an alt Garrosh. He is a brainwashed Lightbound. He isn't seen but is mentioned in the Mag'har allied race questline.

They have also retconned the "Demons exist through all timelines" to "there is no other alt timelines other than alt Draenor so the demons are the same". It exists in it's own pocket. There is no alt Azeroth.

From the WoD short story Hellscream https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...ory/hellscream

"I understand how you feel." Garrosh chose his words carefully. "My father died with
his axe buried in his enemy's chest. A good death. But the path that led him there was
paved with dishonor and was born from a single wrong decision. For too long I lived with
rage toward him. It was wasted anger. Your mate's death and your clan's moment of
weakness may still cause you pain, but the son she gave you—"

"My son? She never gave me a son."

Grommash was staring into Garrosh's eyes, weighing him, judging him. Garrosh did
not even allow himself to blink. "I did not know that," was all he said.

Kairoz. Garrosh felt a cheek muscle jump. Counting blades of grass. He took a
moment to relish the memory of carving out the dragon's middle, feeling Kairoz's hot blood
flow over his hands. It calmed him. Deep breaths. I was never born on this world. Grommash
was never a father. Is this what the bronze dragon meant by "the perfect timeway"?

So him existing in the mag'har questline is yet another retcon. During WoD there was no alt Garrosh.

[Valysar]

Waiting for the server shutdown on alpha but nothing is happening, Torghast not today

[Jaggler]

From the WoD short story Hellscream https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...ory/hellscream

So him existing in the mag'har questline is yet another retcon. During WoD there was no alt Garrosh.

How is it a retcon? Alt-Garrosh probably was born after the events of WoD.

[Sondrelk]

From the WoD short story Hellscream https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...ory/hellscream

So him existing in the mag'har questline is yet another retcon. During WoD there was no alt Garrosh.

Or the Garrosh in the Mag'har scenario was born after the events on WoD. Not completely out of left field considering.

Heard some speculation that that Garrosh might be half-orc, being the son of Yrel, but who knows these days. Might just have been some insane ramblings i picked up somewhere.

[EbaumsTipster]

More like they slapped on the Old God stuff on the tail end of BfA.

The entire expansion seemed to build towards a grand crescendo where the faction war would finally end properly, and everything was set for Sylvanas to be the final boss.
Then she ran away and N'zoth stepped onto the scene. And while he was foreshadowed heavily, he still had nothing to do with the Faction war story that was so integral to the first half of BfA.

South Seas Islands = Azshara = N'zoth has been predicted on here for a decade.

The faction war just explains why we go to the islands, and then meet Azshara and N'zoth. There is zero (0) chance that the expansion was thought as a faction war expansion first when they included literally everything tied to N'zoth/Islands in it. It's just marketable window dressing and a sign that the developers did not have faith in old lore figures like Azshara and N'zoth being able to hold the modern audience's attention.

If it actually started as a war expansion they'd do more with things like Calia and the Night Elves instead of shoving them in the "wait until 10.0" box.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

From the WoD short story Hellscream https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...ory/hellscream

So him existing in the mag'har questline is yet another retcon. During WoD there was no alt Garrosh.

Its not a ret-con because since alt garrosh and the lightbound are new lore therefore its not a retcon just lore development.

[gcsmith]

From the WoD short story Hellscream https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...ory/hellscream

So him existing in the mag'har questline is yet another retcon. During WoD there was no alt Garrosh.

The Garrosh in the Mag'har storyline is named after our Garrosh, at least it seems that way. Grommash went on to have a son after our return to our timeline.

[Raetary]

There is an alt Garrosh. .

Grom has a son who joined the Lightbound in the AU.

But it's not Garrosh.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Exarch_Hellscream

[Sondrelk]

South Seas Islands = Azshara = N'zoth has been predicted on here for a decade.

The faction war just explains why we go to the islands, and then meet Azshara and N'zoth. There is zero (0) chance that the expansion was thought as a faction war expansion first when they included literally everything tied to N'zoth/Islands in it.

If it actually started as a war expansion they'd do more with things like Calia and the Night Elves instead of shoving them in the "wait until 10.0" box.

That still doesnt give a good reason for why the opening to BfA, with Sylvanas burning Teldrassil and open war starting back up naturally means N'zoth is the final boss. Blizzard could have made it so it made more sense, but they didnt. So we ended up with an expansion that feels like it is cobbled together from 2 vastly different expansions that went full hog on one of the themes instead of taking both.

I mean, as it is we were both robbed of a proper ending to the Faction war story, seeing as N'zoth took the final raid away. And we were robbed of proper buildup to the N'zoth raid, seeing as most of the story in the first half was Faction war, with no attempt made to bridge the gap between them. Sylvanas just runs away and we go fully into N'zoth.

[Raetary]

From the WoD short story Hellscream https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...ory/hellscream

So him existing in the mag'har questline is yet another retcon. During WoD there was no alt Garrosh.

It's not a retcon, he just ended up having a child at some later point.

[EbaumsTipster]

That still doesnt give a good reason for why the opening to BfA, with Sylvanas burning Teldrassil and open war starting back up naturally means N'zoth is the final boss. Blizzard could have made it so it made more sense, but they didnt. So we ended up with an expansion that feels like it is cobbled together from 2 vastly different expansions that went full hog on one of the themes instead of taking both.

That is the reason. The cinematics and opening scenario are tacked on to give the faction war more weight when it's actually just the war campaign and the Battle for Dazar'alor that relate to the theme. Everything else is South Seas Expansion. Together it's a shitty Frankenstein expansion.

They fucked up the South Seas Expansion to shove in war stuff and Shadowlands stuff. Why? Likely for the reasons I mentioned before, they didn't have faith in it. Maybe executives ordered them to do the faction war stuff. Maybe internally they decided just Islands n N'zoth would be a WoD-like thematic flop and needed to cause more controversy. They'll never actually admit what happened but I guarantee that the South Seas Expansion was originally planned to stand on its own.

[Padwarle]

Another night with no built?

Does a WoWDev build count?

[Jaggler]

Grom has a son who joined the Lightbound in the AU.

But it's not Garrosh.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Exarch_Hellscream

Ah also that. Was he even called Garrosh in the quest? I don't remember anymore, was quite a while ago.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That is the reason. The cinematics and opening scenario are tacked on to give the faction war more weight when it's actually just the war campaign and the Battle for Dazar'alor that relate to the theme. Everything else is South Seas Expansion. Together it's a shitty Frankenstein expansion.

They fucked up the South Seas Expansion to shove in war stuff and Shadowlands stuff. Why? Likely for the reasons I mentioned before, they didn't have faith in it. Maybe executives ordered them to do the faction war stuff. Maybe internally they decided just Islands n N'zoth would be a WoD-like thematic flop and needed to cause more controversy. They'll never actually admit what happened but I guarantee that the South Seas Expansion was originally planned to stand on its own.

It probably was so far in development, by the time they realized, it was too late.

[Raetary]

Ah also that. Was he even called Garrosh in the quest? I don't remember anymore, was quite a while ago.

They gave no name.

[EbaumsTipster]

It probably was so far in development, by the time they realized, it was too late.

You say that, but if you take out the war campaign and the opening scenario the expansion still stands on its own.

Some asshole at the exec board probably saw that there was an expansion with two islands and said "whoa lol what if they fought each other" and it all went downhill from there. I'm sure some people also scoffed at the idea of the final boss in 2019 super epic Warcraft being a big purple octopus.

[Sondrelk]

That is the reason. The cinematics and opening scenario are tacked on to give the faction war more weight when it's actually just the war campaign and the Battle for Dazar'alor that relate to the theme. Everything else is South Seas Expansion. Together it's a shitty Frankenstein expansion.

They fucked up the South Seas Expansion to shove in war stuff and Shadowlands stuff. Why? Likely for the reasons I mentioned before, they didn't have faith in it. Maybe executives ordered them to do the faction war stuff. Maybe internally they decided it would be a WoD-like thematic flop and needed to cause more controversy. They'll never actually admit what happened but I guarantee that the South Seas Expansion was originally planned to stand on its own.

I don't think they had faith in either concept. Or perhaps they simply never considered how extremely jarring the switch from Full-on faction war to full-on N'zoth truly was.
And i don't think the Faction war as tacked on, necessarily. Maybe in the very vague sense that it is tacked on to the long anticipated South Seas expansion, but from the perspective of the expansion it was extremely integral to the story. Everything revovled around it, and we even had a game-first dedicated faction war themed raid, a step up from SoO, which only managed ot be faction war themed in teh sense that is was thematically fitting to the story about faction war. BfD is the first true faction war raid, and that shouldnt be overlooked.
The war campaign seemed to be building steadily up to the confrontation with Sylvanas, which logically should be in the form of a raid of some sort. Not necessarily where we fight Sylvanas directly, but in some way directly instigated by her to allow a sense of thematic coherence with the beginning.

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You say that, but if you take out the war campaign and the opening scenario the expansion still stands on its own.

Some asshole at the exec board probably saw that there was an expansion with two islands and said "whoa lol what if they fought each other" and it all went downhill from there. I'm sure some people also scoffed at the idea of the final boss in 2019 super epic Warcraft being a big purple octopus.

The faction war was clearly integral to the theme. I just don't think the devs realized how disparate the themes of Faction War and Old Gods truly is. Or somehow felt that they were being clever by building up to a confrontation that never happens, and then swapping it out for something else.