9.0 General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

I can see .1 being relatively light this time around, so maybe a batch of 4 heritage armors.

I have been wondering if 9.0 will have Heritage armors at the beginning. let us remember that heritage armors really only became a thing in 8.1, so it isnt like there applicable precedence for it not being in the base game.

[Laughingjack]

No people use it becuase that is what it is most applicable to.
With talents the best you can get is that some of them have cool animations, or lean you towards a very specific playstyle, with Classses, and now covenants, you have a package deal that significantly alters the way you interract with the world, not just by the power options you have, but also the CC options, movement options and even questlines. Not to mention the unique transmog.

I've never heard of a class using a single ability but hey... who am I to tell you to give up on a lost cause.

[vertigo12]

AOE target cap for cleave abilities. AOE abilities still have the old 22 limit or whatever it is.

And lets be honest, when do you ever have more than 8 targets?

Onyxia's lair achievement?

Obviously there are still clear distinction for ST focused and AoE focused classes. As a disc priest since TBC, disc are well known ST healers, tank healing and spot, from a healer perspective and there is holy for group or raidwide healing.
As for Evey class I think everybody has their own AoE spells.

[Makorus]

Onyxia's lair achievement?

Yes. And you will still be able to do that. That achievement is actually already affected by the AOE Target Cap.

Target Cap does not mean that you suddenly stop hitting more than 8 targets.

As of patch 5.2.0, the current area damage cap is 20 targets. This means AoE spells will deal the listed damage to each target up to and including 20 targets, reaching their maximum total damage output when striking 20 targets. Against more than 20 targets, the spell will deal the amount of damage it would deal against 20 targets, split evenly among all targets hit. For example, if an AoE hits each target for 10,000 damage, it would deal 10,000 per target against up to 20 targets. Against 25 targets, however, it would deal only 8,000 damage per target, as the spell would cap at 200,000 damage done (20 x 10,000). For more than 20 targets, the damage done will be equal to (DamagePerTarget x 20/NumberOfTargets).

[Sondrelk]

I've never heard of a class using a single ability but hey... who am I to tell you to give up on a lost cause.

The class ability is one thing, but covenants also alters what soulbinds you have, what CC options you have, where in Shadowlands you will be spending the most time and what part of the expansions story you get to see.
The only thing that this has truly been applicable to before is Order Halls in Legion, which surprise surprise, is dependant on your class.

[FlubberPuddy]

I've never heard of a class using a single ability but hey... who am I to tell you to give up on a lost cause.

Got some bad news for you Jack idk if you know but Covenants don't give just a single ability. You might wanna check your facts.

[Nagawithlegs]

I have been wondering if 9.0 will have Heritage armors at the beginning. let us remember that heritage armors really only became a thing in 8.1, so it isnt like there applicable precedence for it not being in the base game.

I think there's too much other stuff to deal with. If all or most of the .1 stuff is in the files already (Maw Raid) then it makes sense if the patch is just continuing the Covenant campaigns, adding heritage and unlocking the Maw Raid.

[Sondrelk]

I think there's too much other stuff to deal with. If all or most of the .1 stuff is in the files already (Maw Raid) then it makes sense if the patch is just continuing the Covenant campaigns, adding heritage and unlocking the Maw Raid.

That would be my first guess as well, though i do wonder if it is in the cards.
Though i guess i could only really see Draenei and Trolls getting the heritage armor at this point, maybe Pandaren. Nelves and Forsaken are completely off teh table until at least 9.2.

[huth]

I've never heard of a class using a single ability but hey... who am I to tell you to give up on a lost cause.

What does that even have to do with what you quoted? You're getting increasingly more detached from the topic.

[Makorus]

At most, we will get Heritage Armor for Draenei and maybe Troll, I suppose.

Orcs have enough armors as is, so do Humans. Night Elves got night elf themed armors in 8.1, and so did Undead. Pandaren have the Shado Pan set, and with how irrelevant theyve been, I think Blizz forgot they even exist.

Trolls have a lot of Troll themed armor, but then again, there isnt a Darkspear Armor. Draenei have a lot of armor, but its mostly plate, so theres that as well.

[Laughingjack]

Got some bad news for you Jack idk if you know but Covenants don't give just a single ability. You might wanna check your facts.

Yes,yes I am sure the minor passives outside the majors will be perfectly balanced and the legendary items well thought out....

Is there a point to me warning you of the cluster fuck this is going to be? I mean at this point I feel that I can simply point at AP,Azerite, essences, and corruption and win the argument by default.

[protip]

Again I don’t think you’re trying to get the point that I’m making or maybe I am just not explaining it well enough

There are players who care about cosmetics and players that care about player power

The players who care about cosmetics whether or not the ability is locked to the covenant choice are not affected in anyway by the ability being swappable

The players who care about maximizing their player power are affected by it because if it’s swappable it lets them do more in the content that they care about

Again this is like players who are not affected by a game design telling the players who are affected by the game design that they are wrong and by affected I mean whether or not the abilities are swappable

Heck one could argue that the abilities being swappable no matter the covenant would be really cool because a paladin using the tree hugger ability would be really cool looking if they were an angel or even a necroLord because then it’s like the light kind of shines through giving it more of a dungeons and dragons concept of the paladin

But like I said the discussion is dead there’s no point in it because the change will come in it will just take a while which is a shame but right now that’s the biggest negative for me for the new expansion and it’s not that bad which might not make sense

Like I will sit here and I will argue like Mr. Smith when he went to Washington because I believe that the ability should not be tied to the government because that is bad but it’s like buying a new car and the worst thing about the car is that one of the windows are broken out eventually the window will get fixed but it’s still a pain in the ass

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Locking in talents and gear in mythic plus was a terrible decision and if you ask anyone who did the really high keys which are the only people that were affected by that choice they would probably agree because dungeon runs aren’t that black-and-white

We’re getting back into the covenant thing if the covenant is only a meaningful choice by having the ability lock to it then it’s never a meaningful choice anyways but again we’re going to see you like two months after release blizzard is going to change it or ease up on the restrictions I don’t know but I don’t see a need to have it connected

And yeah I am going to say that players who only care about cosmetics are not affected by it in any way you are not affected by the ability to swap class abilities that in Norway impedes how you play the game or your values on the game

It’s like if blizzard Cut down the amount of PVP talents to three and used the choice argument. Personally since I don’t PVP and I am not affected by it in anyway I don’t really care Because I’m not affected by it but I’m not going to tell the people who are affected by it because they do like PVP that they are wrong and blizzard is right that it’s a meaningful choice

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I’m not talking about changing things midway through a fight what I’m talking about is making my character have to go through hoops to be good in a situation

I like aiming for high damage ranks I like being competitive but blizzard is placing in the system and saying “here make this meaningful choice but by the way we’re going to change up the results of your choice by nursing it or otherwise revamping it”

You can change talents after one gets nerve to very easily and very simply and you can swap weapons after one gets nerved very easy and very simply you do not lose out on the ability to do that

But with the covenants as soon as you lock in that choice you don’t have the ability to swap out without paying a price now we don’t know what that price is going to be yet but I don’t think there should be a price I think that the covenant abilities should essentially be treated like a talent you should be able to swap it

Again if you play to optimize your character do you are probably in the group that’s going to be affected by the ability to swap the class ability without having to worry about swapping your covenant

If you don’t care about optimizing your character to 100% then why is it meaningful choice because you don’t really care about the ability anyways and even if you do you can choose to have that ability

Will find out in January I’m guessing is when the change on blizzard’s part will take affect either they’ll admit they can’t balance it and allow us to swap abilities or they’ll stick to their guns for another four months and then admit they can’t balance it much like history has shown

Will find out in January I’m guessing is when the change on blizzards part will take affect either they’ll admit they can’t balance it and allow us to swap abilities or they’ll stick to their guns for another four months and then admit they can’t balance it much like history has shown

I can’t say one thing it’s going to be a really good expansion if the biggest negative is the class ability and the ability to swap

Somehow you've picked up the idea that people who want covenant abilities to be locked in don't care about gameplay or player power. You're 100% wrong on that. What we're discussing here are choices that have actual consequences. If m+ dungeon 1 has a great skip for Venthyr players, that doesn't mean that only Venthyr players are going to do that dungeon. Other dungeons might have much better skips with the Night Fae ability, or perhaps the burst damage provided by a Kyrian ability will allow a team to skip a phase on a high level tyrannical boss. Even within the scope of m+, different covenants are likely to have advantages in different dungeons. If you can swap your player power per dungeon, then you and everyone else is going to approach those dungeons with the same covenants on every character.

On the other hand, if you have to choose to focus on one covenant at a time, the result is a much more varied experience even for the people who min/max at the highest level. You're not going to stop doing Bwonsamdi's dungeon just because it doesn't suit your covenant - you're going to have to push through for a better key. If you want to push mythic raids as fast as possible, you're not going to give up on getting your BiS trinket from m+ because your covenant is optimized for raiding instead of m+. Everything that you will do regardless of your covenant will be affected by your choices, rather than just being another cookie cutting simulator. Beyond that, if you really do want every advantage, then when you go back around to push the limit with a second or third covenant, at least all of you'll be taking a slightly different approach to your chores.

Yes,yes I am sure the minor passives outside the majors will be perfectly balanced and the legendary items well thought out....

Is there a point to me warning you of the cluster fuck this is going to be? I mean at this point I feel that I can simply point at AP,Azerite, essences, and corruption and win the argument by default.

Minor passives? You should probably check the soulbind calculator again. Comparing cc immunity during Fleshcraft to the heal when allies drop below 50% to Final Moments to Niya's Poison, there is a lot of variety and a lot of power in the passives.

[HailToTheKing]

Over/Under on a patch today?

[gunner_recall]

Over/Under on a patch today?

I think alpha/beta is usually patched later in the week. Not impossible but probably tomorrow or Thursday

[Porimlys]

Over/Under on a patch today?

hoping for a revendreth/oribos blog preview today and a patch tomorrow

[HailToTheKing]

hoping for a revendreth/oribos blog preview today and a patch tomorrow

This would be cool.

[Makabreska]

NPC's acknowledge your presence in Alpha:

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Cool stuff.... admittingly it might come off creepy for some npcs >.>

[gunner_recall]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=312187/...dowlands-alpha

This is a fun read. There's an item that can turn an npc into a chair.

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Cool stuff.... admittingly it might come off creepy for some npcs >.>

Nah m8 I want Khadgar sempai to notice me~

[HailToTheKing]

NPC's acknowledge your presence in Alpha:

I look forward to walking backing and fourth infront of Sally Whitemane.